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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/19 17:16:56
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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There’s also a colossal issue being missed here.
The Imperium itself is absolutely evil, with no redeeming features. It’s brutal beyond comprehension, wasteful, backward looking and basically nothing any sane person of right now would want anything to do with, for a variety of reasons.
But the forces seen in novels, short stories, Codecies and what have you? It’s all incredibly zoomed in.
Put yourself in the shoes of the average, non-combatant Imperial Citizen.
Firstly, you know nothing but your allotted role.
Second, that is reinforced by a state religion far, far worse than anything in terms of permeation and indoctrination than anything we have right now.
Third. The first two are all you, and if you’re lucky as such things go, all your predecessors have ever know. There’s just been no alternative voice.
Fourth. Should your luck break? Oh no here comes the Xenos, or the Heretic. And in a super bizarre “told you so” perversion of humans being exposed to new and different lifestyles, faiths, religions or what have you? They most definitely are out to do all the things and worse, if not far, far, far, far worse you were always told they’d do.
Fifth. Even if the Xenos are comparatively nice, like the Tau, at least initially? All you know is pick up the nearest thing which looks like it could do some kind of wet work and set about the interloper with aplomb. Because again? That’s the sole narrative and action plan you’ve been told all you miserable life.
And that my friends? That is the true horror and oppression of 40K. It’s beyond media control. It’s beyond religious indoctrination. It’s a whole new horror.
To ferment a Rebellion of any note? You first need to persuade the innumerable citizens that there is perhaps something better as an alternative - and in doing so not only overcome a single person’s lifetime exposure to propaganda? But truly generational, and depending on the world more generations that man has existed on earth right now, propaganda.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/19 18:12:28
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Flinty wrote:The massive corruption in every side creates space for all the mercenaries you might ever want to play with. This thread has lore examples on every side except Tyranids.
We have used a few mercenary types in our games but I can see why GW doesn’t touch them after what happened with allies and dogs of war in fantasy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/19 18:18:54
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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To some extent, in the case of the Imperium, becoming some kind of mercenary, whixh means someone carrying a gun, and getting way better salary most probably, is a possible escape.
However most individuals in the mperium are so brainwhased it is unlikely they would even grasp the cooncept of mercenary.
But for all its horror, the imperium is too vast to not let room to mercenaries. Legal loopholes, unchecked piracy, ambitious governors/merchants... The possibilities to fly under the radar and do stuff unoticed is real.
But only wealthy or influencial memebers of the establishment could muster the equipment needed to field them. Average Joe may partake, but he'll never rule an organisation.
I'll add that some kind of mercenaries can be found amongst more war like people I guess.
And then there are humans living under xenos rule or close to xeno space who might start working for them, which can be classified as mercenary work.
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40k: Necrons/Imperial Guard/ Space marines
Bolt Action: Germany/ USA
Project Z.
"The Dakka Dive Bar is the only place you'll hear what's really going on in the underhive. Sure you might not find a good amasec but they grill a mean groxburger. Just watch for ratlings being thrown through windows and you'll be alright." Ciaphas Cain, probably. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/19 20:00:19
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Leader of the Sept
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Humanity being what it is, smashing faces in for payment is probably the second profession after the famous one. I think it’s something that could be relearned quite quickly anywhere in the galaxy.
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Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/19 21:05:56
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Overread wrote:Necrons and Marines already fought with each other against Tyranids.
Yes, but they did it to survive, not as a commercial enterprise. Alliances of convenience - or necessity - are different than fighting for the highest bidder.
And this gets us to the core problem with mercenaries: trust. What pledge can Chaos troops give that anyone would believe? What a lot of people are discussing are really just temporary alliances with logistical support, not actual commercial transactions.
Bribing Freebooterz or Eldar pirates to go attack someone else doesn't make them mercenaries, it's a form of diplomacy, playing one faction off against another.
Actual mercenaries will fight anyone, anywhere for the right price. 40k just isn't set up that way.
There are mercenaries within the factions. Humans will absolutely betray each other, and the Imperium is paranoid precisely because of this possibility. Chaos has the same issue, and the Orks are always up for a brawl with each other.
But you're not going to have a White Company fight for the Dark Eldar in one campaign, take service with the Tau for the next, and then get a plump contract with the Imperium for a finale.
By the way, this isn't just a function of the galactic xenophobia, it's a function of communications. There is no hub of trade where the different races get together and gab. Communication is by psyker, and if there's a broad-band frequency they all share, I've not heard of it.
So even reaching a potential client would be really difficult. It's not like in Battle Tech where you can just dial somebody up on Comstar.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/20 02:51:02
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Commissar von Toussaint wrote: Overread wrote:Necrons and Marines already fought with each other against Tyranids.
Yes, but they did it to survive, not as a commercial enterprise. Alliances of convenience - or necessity - are different than fighting for the highest bidder.
And this gets us to the core problem with mercenaries: trust. What pledge can Chaos troops give that anyone would believe? What a lot of people are discussing are really just temporary alliances with logistical support, not actual commercial transactions.
Bribing Freebooterz or Eldar pirates to go attack someone else doesn't make them mercenaries, it's a form of diplomacy, playing one faction off against another.
Actual mercenaries will fight anyone, anywhere for the right price. 40k just isn't set up that way.
There are mercenaries within the factions. Humans will absolutely betray each other, and the Imperium is paranoid precisely because of this possibility. Chaos has the same issue, and the Orks are always up for a brawl with each other.
But you're not going to have a White Company fight for the Dark Eldar in one campaign, take service with the Tau for the next, and then get a plump contract with the Imperium for a finale.
By the way, this isn't just a function of the galactic xenophobia, it's a function of communications. There is no hub of trade where the different races get together and gab. Communication is by psyker, and if there's a broad-band frequency they all share, I've not heard of it.
So even reaching a potential client would be really difficult. It's not like in Battle Tech where you can just dial somebody up on Comstar.
The Commorragh district of Sec Maegra is a mercenary district with mercenaries of multiple races. While there may not be a mercenary company hopping from Dark Eldar to Tau to Orks or whatever, there could certainly be a human mercenary company that works for Kabal A then later for Kabal B. The Dark Eldar seem pragmatic and Commarragh culture seems to be "whatever gets the job done". Payment in slaves, weapons, drugs, or other commodities of value.
These commodities could then be traded to or be forms of payment for the various other piratical or lawless gangs that lurk in the galaxy. The BFG rulebook in the entry for the Iconoclast escort describes how it is similar to the ships used by pirates. Many "Chaos reavers" that fought in the Gothic War were co-opted pirates.
Originally in the 1st Tau Codex, there was a bit about the Farsight Enclaves acting as mercenaries and fighting for Kroot, human renegades, Eldar, Chaos legions, and even Orks. While it was an in-universe source and the rumors may be false or partially false, it does indicate there is a market for mercenaries out there. However this is at the fringes of Imperial space where Imperial law enforcement is looser and some may turn a blind eye.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/20 02:56:16
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
Mexico
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You are confusing races with factions. The many races that work as mercenaries in Commorragh are pretty much aligned with the Dark Eldar as far as the rest of the galaxy is concerned. That being said, yeah backwater fringes are probably full of mercenaries, but a) such mercenaries are inherently local as their spheres of commerce, communications and operations are inherently limited by the lack of FTL (plus no mercenary wants to get the attention of a major faction so there is a further incentive to try to limit how famous you get) and b) such mercenaries are pretty much easily sweep aside each time any of the major factions start throwing their weight around. The first time those mercenaries start hearing rumors of a Crusade, Hive Fleet, Waaagh or Dynasty nearby, they either make themselves scarce or pretty much doom themselves to die.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/08/20 03:01:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/20 03:04:48
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Tyran wrote:You are confusing races with factions. The many races that work as mercenaries in Commorragh are pretty much aligned with the Dark Eldar as far as the rest of the galaxy is concerned.
That being said, yeah backwater fringes are probably full of mercenaries, but a) such mercenaries are inherently local as their spheres of commerce, communications and operations are inherently limited by the lack of FTL (plus no mercenary wants to get the attention of a major faction so there is a further incentive to try to limit how famous you get) and b) such mercenaries are pretty much easily sweep aside each time any of the major factions start throwing their weight around. The first time those mercenaries start hearing rumors of a Crusade, Hive Fleet, Waaagh or Dynasty nearby, they either make themselves scarce or pretty much doom themselves to die.
Some of the really big mercenary groups are practically factions in their own right. The Farsight Enclaves (if those rumors about them being mercenaries to all sorts of other races and factions are true) and the big Eldar corsair bands. The biggest Eldar corsair groups are spread over the galaxy or can tackle and defeat Imperial fleets. The Eldar Void Dragons corsair group for example is stated to have 3,500 ships at least, which is far far greater than an Imperial sector's fleet numbers, even if many of those corsair fleets are escorts. Yriel's Eldritch Raiders fought and defeated a tendril of Hive Fleet Kraken.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/08/20 03:05:34
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/20 03:16:12
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
Mexico
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The Farsight Enclaves being mercenaries is both hilariously old and forgotten lore and as you noted, in-universe rumors that don't fit with the actual lore regarding Farsight Enclaves. Eldar Corsairs meanwhile are still mostly faction locked. After all the Imperial Ecclesiarchy cannot hire an Eldar Corsair fleet to attack an Eldar Craftworld after all. EDIT: Moreover, the whole Iyanden mess is a further argument against they being mercenaries. After all Yriel's Eldritch Raiders didn't pick a fight with a Hive Fleet for economic reasons.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/08/20 03:21:55
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/20 03:42:13
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Executing Exarch
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Iracundus wrote:
The Gav Thorpe Eldar novels showed an Imperial governor using Eldar corsairs as mercenaries. He would give out the locations of the ships of political enemies so they would get raided. His enemies would grow weaker and the corsairs would get the prize of destroying those human ships for either the cargo or just for the thrills.
And then iirc, the Eldar protagonist decides to blow up the ship carrying the governor's son, largely just because (my vague recollection is that he didn't like the way the son was looking at the protagonist's female captain, but it was done as a whim regardless). Those who consort with the filthy xeno will have their dealings come back and bite them in the end.
Are there mercenaries? Sure. But human mercenaries probably look more or less like light infantry Astra Militarum (fighting vehicles are *very* expensive to purchase and maintain, and have a tendency to get wrecked when you take them into combat, which means you lose your expensive investment; that's why you don't run into mercenary outfits operating tank companies in the real world). Eldar mercenaries are corsairs... or worse. And while some human leaders probably work with them on the sly, they'll get shot if word gets out about it. And there's always the risk that the filthy xeno will turn on them for some inscrutable alien reason (and that's if they're corsairs; if you ignorantly hired a group of Drukhari instead, then you're screwed no matter what). Tau are all zealots, so they likely don't do mercenary work. Kroot do, of course, but again - if you're human - you don't work with filthy xenos on a regular basis. Blood Axe orks are similar to the Kroot, but the Imperium apparently pays them to fight with other orks in order to try and prevent the orks from reaching a critical mass and raiding the Imperium. You certainly wouldn't trust them to not take the occasional pot shot at a nearby Guard unit that they were fighting "alongside" (they're Orks, after all...).
Meanwhile, the Eldar of all of the sub-factions would happily extinguish every last non-Eldar in the galaxy if it would save one Eldar life. Are you going to trust a job from the devious Eldar if you're a human mercenary commander?
Tau hire mercenaries, supposedly. But one gets the sneaking suspicion that it's merely so that they can further indoctrinate you into their authoritarian ideology. Oh, and the "communion helms" that the Tau have given to the Vespid leaders are totally not brainwashing devices. Swearsies.
Votann are probably willing to hire mercenaries, or hire out as mercenaries. Though they also would prefer to avoid giving "normal" humans incentive to speculate on whether the Votann are descended from Terra, and thus perhaps ought to fall under Terra's control once again.
Tyranids view mercenaries as lunch.
A particular Necron leader might be willing to hire xeno mercenaries. But I would imagine that those are rare. And they're certainly not offering their services to the other races.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/20 04:20:02
Subject: Re:Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Not all mercenaries have to be just light infantry. Some Freeblade Knights for example are described as supporting themselves through mercenary work.
The Leagues of Votann are described as getting some of their income via mercenary work for non-Kin, so clearly there must be enough of a market to support them and it might partially explain any diaspora of them across the galaxy.
I think the backstabbing bit of the Eldar and Dark Eldar is overdone, because otherwise there would be no Sec Maegra district in Commorragh. Yes, the Dark Eldar may be treacherous but at the same time they must pay their bills reliably enough that there is such a mercenary market in the first place. It's the same rationale in how the Haemonculi are basically life insurance salesmen. Sure they may have some backstabbing, but if it happened too often they would have no business at all so they must adhere to their contracted agreements reliably enough to have any customers at all. Sometimes it's also just too much effort to backstab someone when the expected gain is too small, and just easier to pay the bill and move on.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/08/20 04:21:30
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/20 04:26:55
Subject: Re:Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Executing Exarch
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Iracundus wrote:
I think the backstabbing bit of the Eldar and Dark Eldar is overdone, because otherwise there would be no Sec Maegra district in Commorragh. Yes, the Dark Eldar may be treacherous but at the same time they must pay their bills reliably enough that there is such a mercenary market in the first place. It's the same rationale in how the Haemonculi are basically life insurance salesmen. Sure they may have some backstabbing, but if it happened too often they would have no business at all so they must adhere to their contracted agreements reliably enough to have any customers at all. Sometimes it's also just too much effort to backstab someone when the expected gain is too small, and just easier to pay the bill and move on.
I would argue that working with the Eldar is like gambling. You're basically playing the odds. There's only a 1% chance that the guy you're dealing with will decide to kill you on a whim. So one job should be safe. And you survive that first job, and get paid well. And it's only a 1% chance that your contact will kill you during the next job. So you take that job. And on any individual job, you're pretty safe. But if you stick around, then sooner or later that unsafe job is going to show up (assuming the risks inherent in mercenary work don't kill you first), and you're going to get killed "just because".
But it won't be the next job. Almost certainly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/20 09:15:09
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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There are Mercs on the ground level, necromunda has lots of these. But on the level of 40K how many mercs can hope to survive an interaction with a waaagh or some space marines or harlequins.
I think I have read bits about daring salvage crews exploring black stone fortresses and space hills (which would make a nice game) but 40K is playing out the big factions against each other. Surely any mercenary groups strong enough to compete on that level would be attacked proactively by the imperium and wiped out
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/20 10:03:34
Subject: Re:Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Another plausible mercenary scenario would be explaining diversity in modeling an Imperial Guard or Genestealer cult army. After all, the background makes a point that the local governors have a lot of freedom to organize however as long as the tithes are paid, so building a defense force by hiring different regional groups isn't out of the question.
It's fine to say that no mercenary in their right mind would sign on for frontline combat, but who gets a choice about fighting when a raiding force of Chaos, Eldar or Orks show up? Sure, you may have gotten hired for an easy job, but raiders aren't going to care and you get the choice: Run and die tired, or stand and fight.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/20 11:59:45
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Iracundus wrote:Not all mercenaries have to be just light infantry. Some Freeblade Knights for example are described as supporting themselves through mercenary work.
The Leagues of Votann are described as getting some of their income via mercenary work for non-Kin, so clearly there must be enough of a market to support them and it might partially explain any diaspora of them across the galaxy.
I think the backstabbing bit of the Eldar and Dark Eldar is overdone, because otherwise there would be no Sec Maegra district in Commorragh. Yes, the Dark Eldar may be treacherous but at the same time they must pay their bills reliably enough that there is such a mercenary market in the first place. It's the same rationale in how the Haemonculi are basically life insurance salesmen. Sure they may have some backstabbing, but if it happened too often they would have no business at all so they must adhere to their contracted agreements reliably enough to have any customers at all. Sometimes it's also just too much effort to backstab someone when the expected gain is too small, and just easier to pay the bill and move on.
Oh yeah, I totally forgot that bit about the knights.
I think on the contrary there is totally room for trans-faction mercenaries. They moslty will be local, as pointed out, communications are to difficult and no hub means no geand scale undertaking could stand, concentrated where factions overlap or are in contact.
I come back on the "staying under the radar". Regarding the Imperium, we already covered it.
Regarding Eldar, they have no real central power and are literally separated by interstellar distances. Nothing can really prevent Alaitoc rangers, Eldar corsairs, DE... from selling their expertise.
However as all races are supremacists it is likely they would stand with their race should it come to blows. Thus making mercenaries even less reliable in certain circumstances.
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40k: Necrons/Imperial Guard/ Space marines
Bolt Action: Germany/ USA
Project Z.
"The Dakka Dive Bar is the only place you'll hear what's really going on in the underhive. Sure you might not find a good amasec but they grill a mean groxburger. Just watch for ratlings being thrown through windows and you'll be alright." Ciaphas Cain, probably. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/20 17:00:53
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Terrifying Rhinox Rider
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Tyran wrote:
Eldar Corsairs meanwhile are still mostly faction locked.
Mercenaries are almost always faction locked. Iracundus said something really good about humans working for Kabal A and then Kabal B, and that what mercenaries means IRL. The OP includes black water and Wagner, and those just work for different parts and affiliates of their own government, advancing their “faction’s” policy goals. So did 14 and 15 century Condottiere. This idea of soldiers who work for anyone who walks into the mercenary store is not how most mercenaries work.
If the Eldritch Raiders work for an Imperial official, it’s because someone on Iyanden wants to use that Imperial planet or department as an asset. They approach you, a small time dictator, and help you stay in power. Yes you cover their costs, but there is also some other reason you’re useful to them.
The RT background for orks is that they employ juman mercenaries, and that most is these mercenaries are flat out guard units, still in imperial service, who redirect the orks against useful targets. Kroot, as everyone knows, get paid in normal trade goods, but the real reason they sell their services is to travel around and collect new DNA and bring it back to Pech. They’re getting paid, but they’re not in it for the money.
It’s never the customer’s idea. This idea there needs to be a store, where a customer goes on a website and orders six mercenaries from the catalogue is so stupid. That’s not what mercenaries are in the real world, you watch too much TV.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/20 17:04:25
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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I think you shouldn't entirely kick "autonomous" mercenaries out of the window, mostly amongst the piracy, who'd not necesseraly push a faction agenda forward.
I agree however that they would be supremly rare, even less significant.
Your answer at heart rings correct to me though.
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40k: Necrons/Imperial Guard/ Space marines
Bolt Action: Germany/ USA
Project Z.
"The Dakka Dive Bar is the only place you'll hear what's really going on in the underhive. Sure you might not find a good amasec but they grill a mean groxburger. Just watch for ratlings being thrown through windows and you'll be alright." Ciaphas Cain, probably. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/22 00:47:25
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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pelicaniforce wrote:It’s never the customer’s idea. This idea there needs to be a store, where a customer goes on a website and orders six mercenaries from the catalogue is so stupid. That’s not what mercenaries are in the real world, you watch too much TV.
This is correct. The context of mercenaries in our world is set within what is really a quite narrow cultural and geographic context. Think of artillery for hire at the dawn of the gunpowder era. They generally had only a few possible employers and played them off against each other. Because they were game-changers, they were soon put out of business by state actors.
The other big problem is that when mercenaries flourished, they did so within compatible cultures. Free companies going to where the wars are don't work in 40k because so many of the players are violently xenophobic.
Battle Tech has lots of mercenaries (and rules for building your own unit), but it's all humans. The great houses are based on familiar cultural groups, but that's just adding some multicultural elements to the 16th Century politics that rule the game.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/08/22 00:47:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/22 02:09:30
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna
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pelicaniforce wrote:The OP includes black water and Wagner, and those just work for different parts and affiliates of their own government, advancing their “faction’s” policy goals. So did 14 and 15 century Condottiere. This idea of soldiers who work for anyone who walks into the mercenary store is not how most mercenaries work.
Yep, especially in 40k where every faction is a bunch of authoritarian  s with zero tolerance for treason. How exactly are you going to sell mercenaries at the mercenary store as an Imperial planetary governor? As soon as the sector government finds out you have enough excess soldiers that you're able to loan them out for profit your tithe will be increased, your mercenaries will be confiscated and absorbed into whatever guard force needs reinforcements, and you'll be lucky if you aren't executed for treason because you didn't immediately offer your extra manpower as a voluntary bonus tithe. The only way you could even conceivably have that planetary governor loaning out mercenary forces is if they're working as an extension of the local authorities and only fighting if/when it benefits the Imperium as a whole.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/22 06:44:31
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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There’s a Terry Pratchet quote (the Patrician I think)
“The problem with mercenaries is that you have to pay them to fight and, unless you’re very lucky, you have to pay them again to stop”
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/22 06:50:24
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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I think on the contrary that they'll fight so long as you pay, and if you're in financial trouble of sort you might end up very, very lonely indeed.
Who's Terry Pratchet though? Forgive my ignorance
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40k: Necrons/Imperial Guard/ Space marines
Bolt Action: Germany/ USA
Project Z.
"The Dakka Dive Bar is the only place you'll hear what's really going on in the underhive. Sure you might not find a good amasec but they grill a mean groxburger. Just watch for ratlings being thrown through windows and you'll be alright." Ciaphas Cain, probably. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/22 09:13:37
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Calculating Commissar
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Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:I think on the contrary that they'll fight so long as you pay, and if you're in financial trouble of sort you might end up very, very lonely indeed.
Who's Terry Pratchet though? Forgive my ignorance
He was an excellent author who wrote the Discworld series (amongst other things).
He is referring to the kind of mercenary who will attack their erstwhile allies instead once the money runs out, or at least threaten to do so unless more money is forthcoming. A protection racket basically.
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ChargerIIC wrote:If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/22 10:35:26
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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ThePaintingOwl wrote:pelicaniforce wrote:The OP includes black water and Wagner, and those just work for different parts and affiliates of their own government, advancing their “faction’s” policy goals. So did 14 and 15 century Condottiere. This idea of soldiers who work for anyone who walks into the mercenary store is not how most mercenaries work.
Yep, especially in 40k where every faction is a bunch of authoritarian  s with zero tolerance for treason. How exactly are you going to sell mercenaries at the mercenary store as an Imperial planetary governor? As soon as the sector government finds out you have enough excess soldiers that you're able to loan them out for profit your tithe will be increased, your mercenaries will be confiscated and absorbed into whatever guard force needs reinforcements, and you'll be lucky if you aren't executed for treason because you didn't immediately offer your extra manpower as a voluntary bonus tithe. The only way you could even conceivably have that planetary governor loaning out mercenary forces is if they're working as an extension of the local authorities and only fighting if/when it benefits the Imperium as a whole.
I’m not sure that’s quite right.
Whilst tithes can be adjusted, the wider Imperium doesn’t keep that close an eye on you if you’re meeting tithe. Nor is there a proscribed size for your own PDF. The only expectation is that you as Governor have one, it’s trained and equipped - all at your own expense. And that extends to your System Defence Fleet, though as ever that won’t really allow for Warp Capable vessels.
And in terms of Mercs? Consider just how many you need to go up against a PDF, let alone an Imperial Guard Taskforce. And if those Mercs want to work outside of their own system, they’ll need warp capable vessels. Which means crew, Navigator, Enginseers, ratings, and presumably at least some of those part of the formal Merc unit capable of fighting as boarding parties and the specialist gear you’d typically want for that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/22 10:49:36
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Calculating Commissar
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We keep circling round it, but as mentioned already, the first edition of the game was literally focused on powerful, state-sanctioned mercenaries operating on the borders of Imperial space. Rogue Traders have fleets and armies under their command, and they are licensed to deal with xenos as well as human factions (whilst they are not supposed to fight the Imperium and should be furthering the Imperium's goals, I am sure there are many skimishes in the frontiers...). Xenos equivalents exist, like the Kroot.
Mercenaries exist on a large scale on the fringes of the major factions.
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ChargerIIC wrote:If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/22 12:43:22
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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I wouldn’t say Rogue Trader fleets are mercenary.
Privateers? Yes. Essentially state sanctioned and authorised pirates. Their task is to seek out new worlds ready for colonisation, remnant worlds that are pre-Imperial contact, Xenos worlds good for an Exterminatus. Essentially anything which can expand the borders of The Imperium, including charting relatively stable warp routes.
They do have private armies, but being guns for hire within the existing Imperium isn’t quite their jam.
Now fringe worlds may enter into a mutually supporting pact with a Rogue Trader in a microcosm of the Imperial way. Rogue Trader gains a supply and refit, the planet gains something akin to formal military support should something nasty come a-knocking. Essentially the Rogue Trader performs the same actions as The Imperial Navy.
Rogue Traders of course have a leeway few if any others outside of the Inquisition have. Which is basically ‘you can do pretty much as you want if you think you can get away with it’, which can extend to including Xenos elements in your fleet and/or household. Whether you take that too far most likely depends upon who’s doing the asking next time you report in or what have you.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/22 16:14:43
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Calculating Commissar
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I am pretty sure that the line between mercenary and privateer is basically non-existent. As mentioned upthread, most mercenaries are state-affiliated anyway. It is basically land vs sea for the same concept. Wealthy Rogue Traders typically have both naval and surface forces.
I am sure many Rogue Traders will contract out for military duties, such as escorting explorator expeditions or Inquisitors (Inquisitors can requisition a Rogue Trader, but we know many prefer to contract out services unless they have to, such as Eisenhorn before he went into hiding).
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ChargerIIC wrote:If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/22 16:21:20
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Haighus wrote: Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:I think on the contrary that they'll fight so long as you pay, and if you're in financial trouble of sort you might end up very, very lonely indeed.
Who's Terry Pratchet though? Forgive my ignorance
He was an excellent author who wrote the Discworld series (amongst other things).
He is referring to the kind of mercenary who will attack their erstwhile allies instead once the money runs out, or at least threaten to do so unless more money is forthcoming. A protection racket basically.
Oh, actually I failed to grasp the quote, that sounds better now. Thanks
As for RT, I think more than strictly mercenaries like PMC we can stretch it a bit further and consider "mecenarish actions" of sort at large. It's not strictly the wording of the topic but I think it wouldn't be too far flung to add mercenary service executed by groups who aren't PMCs or the like.
Only a suggestion widening the thread, that you may find to wide an stepping on the topic of allies.
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40k: Necrons/Imperial Guard/ Space marines
Bolt Action: Germany/ USA
Project Z.
"The Dakka Dive Bar is the only place you'll hear what's really going on in the underhive. Sure you might not find a good amasec but they grill a mean groxburger. Just watch for ratlings being thrown through windows and you'll be alright." Ciaphas Cain, probably. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/22 16:52:56
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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The further out on the fringe you are, the farther away you are from the Astronomicon the more Mercenaries you will find. There is a lot of Galaxy outside of the light of the Astronomicon.
It gets wild out there, with each institution needing to see to their own protection. In such places there are always mercs. The line between a mercenary, a vassal soldier, a conscript, and a volunteer is pretty thin; often only being the difference of whose side of the battle you are on.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/08/22 16:53:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/22 16:58:04
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
Mexico
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I guess depends on the scale, but the individual mercenary does it for the money even if the overall mercenary group has ideological and political ties to a government.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/08/22 19:48:26
Subject: Why mercenaries in 40k are so rare?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Haighus wrote: Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:I think on the contrary that they'll fight so long as you pay, and if you're in financial trouble of sort you might end up very, very lonely indeed.
Who's Terry Pratchet though? Forgive my ignorance
He was an excellent author who wrote the Discworld series (amongst other things).
He is referring to the kind of mercenary who will attack their erstwhile allies instead once the money runs out, or at least threaten to do so unless more money is forthcoming. A protection racket basically.
An excellent author! Highly recommended.
But as you say mercenaries are not trust worthy. So much of the conflicts of 40K are fought based on blind faith, compulsion or blood lust. Why have soldiers you can’t trust when you can send legions of zealots into battle without question
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