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Belthanos wrote:
4 good beats 4 good and 4 trash anyway.

Sisters got 4 good ones. Compare to marines where several can be just ignored.

Only issue being the usual free bonus rules like detachments give. Point values impossible to get right since one has to price as if best detachment. So units bad in other detachments. Penitent units being prime example with sisters.

Free rules outside datasheet always give problems.

It depends on how you look at it. In most cases, this occurs because two models share such similar roles that no matter the point difference one will always be better than the other. By giving them slightly better rules in different detachments you carve out design space for each of them. This can 100% be taken too far and probably have for Penitent, but I find it creates more viable options overall than not most of the time.

yeah, instead of having 2 units having different roles by default, adding detachments to make units different is an option
if the rules changes would come with points changes for the detachments and not be priced with the unit itself as this would simply remove options

Belthanos wrote:
4 good beats 4 good and 4 trash anyway.

Sisters got 4 good ones. Compare to marines where several can be just ignored.

Only issue being the usual free bonus rules like detachments give. Point values impossible to get right since one has to price as if best detachment. So units bad in other detachments. Penitent units being prime example with sisters.

Free rules outside datasheet always give problems.

In that case it would be most comprehensive for each unit to have different points costs for different detachments. However we can't have different points for different upgrades within the same squad, so that's probably too much to hope for...

Patriarch wrote:

Belthanos wrote:
4 good beats 4 good and 4 trash anyway.

Sisters got 4 good ones. Compare to marines where several can be just ignored.

Only issue being the usual free bonus rules like detachments give. Point values impossible to get right since one has to price as if best detachment. So units bad in other detachments. Penitent units being prime example with sisters.

Free rules outside datasheet always give problems.

In that case it would be most comprehensive for each unit to have different points costs for different detachments. However we can't have different points for different upgrades within the same squad, so that's probably too much to hope for...

The most likely outcome of this is units being worse in their primary detachment because they're overcosted for the privilege.

 LunarSol wrote:

Patriarch wrote:

Belthanos wrote:
4 good beats 4 good and 4 trash anyway.

Sisters got 4 good ones. Compare to marines where several can be just ignored.

Only issue being the usual free bonus rules like detachments give. Point values impossible to get right since one has to price as if best detachment. So units bad in other detachments. Penitent units being prime example with sisters.

Free rules outside datasheet always give problems.

In that case it would be most comprehensive for each unit to have different points costs for different detachments. However we can't have different points for different upgrades within the same squad, so that's probably too much to hope for...

The most likely outcome of this is units being worse in their primary detachment because they're overcosted for the privilege.

The best evidence for this is the changes that have been made to Marines to reflect all the Dark Angels armies pretending to be Iron Hands.

Monday Valrak update, not much new tbh:
- Reiterates that coteaz and 3 battleforces for agents is coming
- deathwatch folded in
- GK are not folded in
- new assassin's mentioned but from a less reliable source
- says that the noises and sources keep reinforcing that daemons are going to god books with their legions, but much like us doesn't know how be'lakor fits into that

Dudeface wrote:
Monday Valrak update, not much new tbh:
- Reiterates that coteaz and 3 battleforces for agents is coming
- deathwatch folded in
- GK are not folded in
- new assassin's mentioned but from a less reliable source
- says that the noises and sources keep reinforcing that daemons are going to god books with their legions, but much like us doesn't know how be'lakor fits into that

I would assume they'd handle Be'lakor like AOS does, throwing him in the general chaos faction... but for 40k, that's CSM, which has already come and gone, so yeah, very curious to consider. would certainly be a change for the better, tho

new assassin would be pretty wild, unless it's bringing the heresy assassins to plastic (maybe the source mixed things up?)

oh and, DW getting rolled in but DW not feels pretty obvious. the GK army list is much more substantial, even if it still needs a lot of updates

Dudeface wrote:
Monday Valrak update, not much new tbh:
- Reiterates that coteaz and 3 battleforces for agents is coming
- deathwatch folded in
- GK are not folded in
- new assassin's mentioned but from a less reliable source
- says that the noises and sources keep reinforcing that daemons are going to god books with their legions, but much like us doesn't know how be'lakor fits into that

Be'lakor hijacked a Knight World...he could show up in Chaos Knights?

 Kanluwen wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Monday Valrak update, not much new tbh:
- Reiterates that coteaz and 3 battleforces for agents is coming
- deathwatch folded in
- GK are not folded in
- new assassin's mentioned but from a less reliable source
- says that the noises and sources keep reinforcing that daemons are going to god books with their legions, but much like us doesn't know how be'lakor fits into that

Be'lakor hijacked a Knight World...he could show up in Chaos Knights?

Personally, I suspect he'll be a 1 page pdf agent of chaos. Tying him to the knights codex would be a bit of a phallic move after disbanding the daemons book.

Dudeface wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Monday Valrak update, not much new tbh:
- Reiterates that coteaz and 3 battleforces for agents is coming
- deathwatch folded in
- GK are not folded in
- new assassin's mentioned but from a less reliable source
- says that the noises and sources keep reinforcing that daemons are going to god books with their legions, but much like us doesn't know how be'lakor fits into that

Be'lakor hijacked a Knight World...he could show up in Chaos Knights?

Personally, I suspect he'll be a 1 page pdf agent of chaos. Tying him to the knights codex would be a bit of a phallic move after disbanding the daemons book.

Be'lakor always struck me as just being more of a WHFB/AOS character anyway, so backseating him in 40k would be okay with me.

Dudeface wrote:

Personally, I suspect he'll be a 1 page pdf agent of chaos. Tying him to the knights codex would be a bit of a phallic move after disbanding the daemons book.

Be'lakor has lately been tied more to the mortal side of things than daemons. I'm just throwing it out there, as it would be a way to add a character to the Chaos Knights and a Canis Rex equivalent.

Maybe we'll eventually get a Lost and the Damned book, with Be'lakor as the de facto 'leader' of the the beastmen, rebels and cultists.

Same sort of story as Vashtorr surely, especially if the various thousand sons automata rumours come to fruition.

Assassins as Death Cult is something that I've wondered about. There's already a plastic crusader for retinues in the Blackstone Fortress set, adding some more Death cultists other than the Rogue Trader retinue would help pad out the inquisitor retinues.

They could easily expand death Cult assassins with more weapon options than just swords and twin blades

Very unlikely right now when GW are on a huge quest in both AoS and 40K to simplify weapon profiles, especially close combat weapons.

 Overread wrote:
Very unlikely right now when GW are on a huge quest in both AoS and 40K to simplify weapon profiles, especially close combat weapons.

Laughs in 30k



Also those new assassins mentioned are as like as not to be the ones made for Heresy. Cant remember the names for any of them except the Varnus.

Vanus and Venenum would be the two that would make the jump, but they're all resin so unlikely to be in the Agents book.

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Maybe we'll eventually get a Lost and the Damned book, with Be'lakor as the de facto 'leader' of the the beastmen, rebels and cultists.

I've had this idea since the end of 9th, but now that we have the CSM codex, I think it's unlikely to happen in 10th edition. those units already have a home for now

 Overread wrote:
Very unlikely right now when GW are on a huge quest in both AoS and 40K to simplify weapon profiles, especially close combat weapons.

They do seem quite happy to give you “more attacks less damage” less attacks more damage” and “one attack medium damage with special effects” as weapon options and call them equal value though.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Vanus and Venenum would be the two that would make the jump, but they're all resin so unlikely to be in the Agents book.

Those are the two! Why don't you think the Adamus (had to look him up) would make the jump? Just too generic maybe?
Although you make a good point on the resin. They do seem sort of resin-phobic for 40k/AoS these days.

It's been noted over on B&C (I just checked to validate) but the 40k assassins have just disappeared from the webstore in the UK. Possible imminent surprise release of Agents?

They're gone from the AUS website too. This means they'll come back with the inevitable re-packaging price rise, which is a terrifying thought as they were already $60 a pop.

 Snrub wrote:
They're gone from the AUS website too. This means they'll come back with the inevitable re-packaging price rise, which is a terrifying thought as they were already $60 a pop.

Maybe GW will start bundling them together?

 GaroRobe wrote:
Maybe GW will start bundling them together?

That's a thought. Gonna be an expensive quartet though!

 Snrub wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
Maybe GW will start bundling them together?

That's a thought. Gonna be an expensive quartet though!

But think of the savings! Instead of $35 each, you get all 4 at $100! That’s a <math> % discount! (Numbers made up for illustrative purposes)

Assuming you want all of them.
And could use them all.
And don’t already own some of them.
Etc..

But it’s also less SKUs and shelf space, simplifies packaging and warehouse, blah blah blah.

 Nevelon wrote:

Assuming you want all of them.
And could use them all.
And don’t already own some of them.
Etc..

Who doesn't want a 2nd Evesor Assassin?! If the first one doesn't work, just through another one at the problem. If that doesn't work, the whole planet's probably fethed and needs nuking anyway.

 Snrub wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

Assuming you want all of them.
And could use them all.
And don’t already own some of them.
Etc..

Who doesn't want a 2nd Evesor Assassin?! If the first one doesn't work, just through another one at the problem. If that doesn't work, the whole planet's probably fethed and needs nuking anyway.

Heh.

No lie, I’d be tempted for a box. I’ve got a chunk of assassins kicking around, but mostly old metals. Some are even painted. I like the new plastics, but the way GW prices them I just could not bring myself to drop the cash for single models.

And it’s not just the assassins. I have to really want a character to pay what they are asking for them these days.

I always liked the proxy ones built out the van saar box and a decent bits box

 Nevelon wrote:

 Snrub wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

Assuming you want all of them.
And could use them all.
And don’t already own some of them.
Etc..

Who doesn't want a 2nd Evesor Assassin?! If the first one doesn't work, just through another one at the problem. If that doesn't work, the whole planet's probably fethed and needs nuking anyway.

Heh.

No lie, I’d be tempted for a box. I’ve got a chunk of assassins kicking around, but mostly old metals. Some are even painted. I like the new plastics, but the way GW prices them I just could not bring myself to drop the cash for single models.

And it’s not just the assassins. I have to really want a character to pay what they are asking for them these days.

Back in the day I hesitated to buy Execution Force due to the 100€ price tag, until I realized each Assassin was likely to sell for 25€ individually. Which they did. Glad I did pull the trigger. I put my free Cultists and Chaos Lord to good use and have all four new plastic Assassins, which only got even more expensive in the meantime.

Yeah, character prices are pretty ridiculous and by and large I only own any of the newer characters if they were in a discount box with other stuff. I made an exception or two, but it's exceedingly rare.

 Nevelon wrote:
No lie, I’d be tempted for a box. I’ve got a chunk of assassins kicking around, but mostly old metals. Some are even painted. I like the new plastics, but the way GW prices them I just could not bring myself to drop the cash for single models.

And it’s not just the assassins. I have to really want a character to pay what they are asking for them these days.

Yeah I feel ya there. I haven't bought a single character model for any system in ages due to the outrageous prices they're asking. Even online retailers can't make it super palatable.
The only two in recent years that have almost made cave in were the plastic Lion El'jonson and new Asmodai. Both gorgeous, both really expensive. I'll get em at some point when I don't have more pressing hobby purchases.

I also really want all four assassins, as they have some use in Heresy (Vindi and Evesor mostly, other two... ehh... not so much.) and I've got some cool conversion ideas for posing that i'd like to attempt. If they are indeed released as a four pack and the price is "ok", I might consider it.

 Geifer wrote:
Back in the day I hesitated to buy Execution Force due to the 100€ price tag,

Arrrgh, I regret not buying that bloody box set. I procrastinated on it for ages and I decided against it for some reason and then it vanished into the ether and the assassins came back at stupid prices and I cursed myself for a fool.
It was such a good value box too. And you can never have too many of those Dark Vengeance cultists.