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 Lathe Biosas wrote:
The DKoK models feel like a dying Canary in the proverbial Coal Mine.

AoS has always leaned into the less gritty, more cartoony feel that regular Warhammer or 40k, now I feel that that esthetic is creeping into 40k.

The DKoK have a grim feeling, with a touch... or should I say toe hold... of the AoS cartoon feel.

The Eavy Metal paint job is probably doing a lot of that to be fair. Even the resin models looked a lot less gritty when they refreshed the photographs with a new, cleaner paint job. I think some of the cartooniness is just an inherent downside of swapping to plastic, since the proportions and detail have to be less refined and more chunky.

Cult Of Paint did a pretty gritty paint job when the Kill Team dropped and it went a long way to making them less cartoony.

I agree, it doesn't make sense gameplay wise to split them into smaller boxes.... financially, on the other hand, the new models may be pricey, and sold in smaller amounts.

But that's just a guess.
--‐---‐------------

On the DKoK, yeah.... it might just be the bulkier look to them and the paint job feels too much.

I understand how the Space Marine players felt about the Primaris.

It was kind of a shock, because it was different... I guess I'll put my "Kill the Mutants" sign away, and stop supporting Mr. Trask and his Sentinel Program.

Thanks for putting it in perspective for me.

 Hellebore wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
The DKoK models feel like a dying Canary in the proverbial Coal Mine.

AoS has always leaned into the less gritty, more cartoony feel that regular Warhammer or 40k, now I feel that that esthetic is creeping into 40k.

The DKoK have a grim feeling, with a touch... or should I say toe hold... of the AoS cartoon feel.

You are aware that the DK (and their clawed horses) have been part of the game for 20-some years at this point, right?

Those horses just had pointy hooves by comparison, these guys are full on cat climbing up gak.

You've never actually seen the originals then.

I find all of this outrage really sad. Who wants literal ww1 in 40k? What's the point.

This is about the only thing that's clearly not historical and that's good.

I have seen them, the studio painted ones in WHW are lovely. That said, this is an original one, from the gw site, they have 2 short stubby claws that are basically a pointy hoof.



The new ones are like a cat trying to catch a toy on a string with articulated toes:


They are very different.

I guess this means Catachans are forevermore consigned to the garbage can.

It only looks like a cat because of the position; the dewclaw is making the paw look bigger on the forelegs; whilst the claws are all moving with the foot to make it look more dynamic and aggressive.

Plus the bold painting colours really brings them out as does the angle. This is very much something I think will quickly become a non-issue for many once they get modles "in hand"

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I guess this means Catachans are forevermore consigned to the garbage can.

i suspect that they'll get the same release pattern that krieg did (kill team kit that is also their base infantry, and then the rest of the army several years later)

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I guess this means Catachans are forevermore consigned to the garbage can.

i suspect that they'll get the same release pattern that krieg did (kill team kit that is also their base infantry, and then the rest of the army several years later)

Indeed, the last guard codex kept a catachan unit entry around at a time when many other kits of a similar age were being dropped. If catachans are still in the 10e codex then it's a good sign.

 Crimson wrote:
They just look weird and awful and do not fit the rest of the model, which is a huge shame as rest of the model looks really cool. And they are not like feet of the Forgeworld ponies. Those obviously didn't look like feet of normal horses either, but they did look like ungulate feet so they made sense with the rest of the anatomy.

Eh, no, it made no sense at all. Cows, pigs, and the rest of even-toed ungulates are completely different biological order (one of the highest classification ranks just below a kingdom) than odd-toed ungulates like horses. In fact, said cow is more closely related to a whale than it is to a horse. That's why old ones looked so wrong (on top of a terrible anatomy), it was a mix of body parts of animal groups separated by 70+ million years of evolution put together in a haphazard way.

Fun fact, direct ancestor of a horse did in fact have three fingers ending with 'claws' (plus two small side ones like new Krieg 'horses'), and a regression to ancestral trait of one body part is much more believable and less complicated than trying to make a cow or goat into horse like thing. So, yeah:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
It's just a combination of the way they've been painted, the more dynamic poses, and that forgeworld miniatures were just slightly more realistically proportioned/scaled.

What?

Not only FW minis had proportions of 10 year old children (unless I missed some grimdumb memo about Krieg sending kids to war, but they are always described as adults in the fluff), but they had limbs so thin that if you tried to imagine how they looked under the armor/cloth, Barbie doll arms and legs would look downright obese in comparison. GW Krieg actually have proportions of adult human, and the thicker limbs while still kind of gaunt underneath the uniform aren't caricatually so.

The 'horses' were terrible too, not only the thing was so front heavy it would trip and faceplanted on the first obstacle breaking its neck, tiny rear legs would never work on a real animal (there is a reason why virtually all mammals have rear limbs much stronger than front ones despite front also bearing the weight of neck/head), not one that can be ridden or run at any real speed, at least. I suspect that's also why they were posed in so static, slow walking stance, because it would be impossible to make them look fast without being ridiculous.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
AoS has always leaned into the less gritty, more cartoony feel that regular Warhammer or 40k, now I feel that that esthetic is creeping into 40k.

The DKoK have a grim feeling, with a touch... or should I say toe hold... of the AoS cartoon feel.

Ah, yes, the old, non cartoony, gritty 40K models:


I dare you to say that modern replacement of this is in any way, shape, or form more 'cartoony'. With a straight face, that is

'...always described as adults in the fluff'
Tell me you haven't read Dead Men Walking without telling me you haven't read Dead Men Walking

Bunnies!

Red Bunnies at that... Hmmm... at least they didn't bring up the Night Lord's and their Bat Heads...then I'd really be in trouble...

To me, the guardsmen (outside of the 1980s action force Catachans), have always been the grounding force in 40k. They are the closest to us. Not superhuman, not really exciting in any way, but super relatable.

In my view they are what the rebellion was in the OG Star Wars, the everyman struggling while the superheroes shine in the foreground.

To be One Hundred percent honest... It's not that I am hung up on a space horses hoof. I'm just saying this reminds me of the outrage that was taken when we first saw the Primaris Marines. It's a change. Some will like it, some won't. I'm not here to sway opinions. So I apologize if my verbiage angered or sowed discontent in the ranks.

I thought Death Korps of Krieg was a joke to begin with. Like they had to bring the grimdark-o-meter up to 11 and had a good chuckle about it.

 Fayric wrote:
I thought Death Korps of Krieg was a joke to begin with. Like they had to bring the grimdark-o-meter up to 11 and had a good chuckle about it.

Not at all. The guys at Forge World back then were WW1/WW2/modern military enthusiasts and really serious about it. They created whole armies for Krieg and the Elysians that were quite different from the usual Imperial Guard.

Dudeface wrote:

The new ones are like a cat trying to catch a toy on a string with articulated toes:


They are very different.

youve used a pic that obfuscates the actual model.


they have one extra toe than the old models. but their feet originally had two very large separate claws with 2 small ones on the sides.





theres nothing short or stubby about those. they are larger than the new model claws...

 Hellebore wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

The new ones are like a cat trying to catch a toy on a string with articulated toes:


They are very different.

youve used a pic that obfuscates the actual model.


they have one extra toe than the old models. but their feet originally had two very large separate claws with 2 small ones on the sides.





theres nothing short or stubby about those. they are larger than the new model claws...

I used their stock painted mini, it wasn't to obfuscate anything. That's the mini that was in cabinets in WHW to look at. Honestly they don't look larger, they also don't really resemble claws, they just look like a lightly elongated cloven hoof. The claw length on both appears to be about 1/3 of the guardsman heads length, I think the wtfever that is/horse is larger than the old one giving the impression of smaller digits.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but for me the old ones were creepy not-quite right horses, the new ones feel more like an aborted kroot mount with a horses head attached.

To each their own.

I wasn't trying to imply you'd used that pic deliberately, only that it doesn't show the feet very clearly.

The two claws on the resin models are huge, bigger than the new ones' claws. they give the feet a very weird uncomfortable look.

The new ones are so minimally different that I just don't see the issue.

 Hellebore wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

The new ones are like a cat trying to catch a toy on a string with articulated toes:


They are very different.

youve used a pic that obfuscates the actual model.


they have one extra toe than the old models. but their feet originally had two very large separate claws with 2 small ones on the sides.





theres nothing short or stubby about those. they are larger than the new model claws...

For me the main difference between these two are that the old ones were just two claws coming out of a single stump of leg while the new ones have actual movable toes with a claw each. The old one might also have had toes but you can't really see them since all four are just flat on the ground while on the new one the two front feet clearly show the toes.
If you only look at the back feet the new one looks completely fine and not that different to the resin version, its really just the other two that look kinda weird to me

Besides the claws, the plastic one is a much bigger animal from the looks of it.

I think the whole range are all bulkier than the FW models.

Makes sense - a lot of early GW mounts were on the smaller side (esp in the old plastics). More modern ones the mounts range from being a little to considerably larger.

and mounts should probably bigger than they previously were, anyway. even normal horses are big, and so mutant soldier horses being bigger is entirely reasonable

Saw this rumour on discord about the upcoming Balance Dataslate, codexes and detachments.
Can anyone trace it back to its source?

any leak i see from discord or 4chan, i assume is fake

Eldar busted because they won't be able to win without strands of fate, or busted because they'll have movement abilities that allow them to run rings around everyone?

Seems like GW can't get anything but a space marine right, so why don't they just give everyone space marine stats and call the miniatures an aesthetic choice?

Choose your gamer skin for a set of identical rules.

Trying to make a predominantly T3 W1 army competitive while sitting within the elite niche requires a lot of rules finagling because they're competing with T6 multi wound armies of marine variants.

people always hate on the elves because the game is not designed around optimising the factors the eldar use to win battles, so any rules they end up seemingly cause issues for everyone.

I can't believe the GW people would say, "here's a bunch of new models for you to buy... oh and by the way, they suck."

It's seems like the like to wait until you have brought everything before beating your army to death with the Nerf Bat.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
It's seems like the like to wait until you have brought everything before beating your army to death with the Nerf Bat.

*Laughs in 9th edition Votann*

Seriously, everyone realized immediately that the first Votann codex was so busted it would completely warp the meta, and some tournament(s) in Europe actually banned it. This caused GW to make a knee-jerk reaction in the form of a Day 0 balance update, completely changing several key rules and rendering the physical copies of the book obsolete. This left a very bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. However, they did release the update before releasing the whole range of models, which actually seemed like one of the more benevolent things they could have done, instead of waiting until everyone bought their armies (which would have looked like an absolute bait-and-switch and pissed off a lot more players). So the precedent is there for them to make balance changes before players get all their models if something in the book is very obviously broken.

 Irbis wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
They just look weird and awful and do not fit the rest of the model, which is a huge shame as rest of the model looks really cool. And they are not like feet of the Forgeworld ponies. Those obviously didn't look like feet of normal horses either, but they did look like ungulate feet so they made sense with the rest of the anatomy.

Eh, no, it made no sense at all. Cows, pigs, and the rest of even-toed ungulates are completely different biological order (one of the highest classification ranks just below a kingdom) than odd-toed ungulates like horses. In fact, said cow is more closely related to a whale than it is to a horse. That's why old ones looked so wrong (on top of a terrible anatomy), it was a mix of body parts of animal groups separated by 70+ million years of evolution put together in a haphazard way.

Fun fact, direct ancestor of a horse did in fact have three fingers ending with 'claws' (plus two small side ones like new Krieg 'horses'), and a regression to ancestral trait of one body part is much more believable and less complicated than trying to make a cow or goat into horse like thing. So, yeah:

Spoiler:

... they're genetically modified lab-grown clones. Natual evolution and how closely related they aren't to a pig or cow compared to a regular horse really doesn't matter.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I can't believe the GW people would say, "here's a bunch of new models for you to buy... oh and by the way, they suck."

It's seems like the like to wait until you have brought everything before beating your army to death with the Nerf Bat.

This bit you've been doing for the last month or so really isn't funny, no matter if you think it is.

+ + +

Interesting that the reply claimed these new detachments would be untested - I wonder if they think the same of the detachments in the Codexes.

New Valrak rumours:

Slight mistake on his CP rumour from last time instead of the Guardians its 10 Dire Avengers which brings it more in line with the other CPs at a discount of 34% instead of 41%.
So would be Spiritseer, 10 Dire Avengers, 5 Warp Spiders, 5 Wraithblades/Warpguardians.
Also he says 24 models in the box which only makes sense if GW starts counting the little idol/altar pieces included in the Aspect Warriors sets. They didn't do that on the individual boxes until now as they all say 5 models so if they change that and the idols count as actual models now that might also mean they get actual rules in the Codex? Or at least some rule that needs a counter like that.

Still believes in the Corsairs rumours but since they are unlikely to get another reveal about them before the Codex drops I think they will be part of a future campaign book or the end of edition campaign instead.
Models are a new Viper kit with a rotating enclosed turret on the back and three weapon options. Also apparently a Corsairs only build? "A lot more sleek, compact more like the Venom style"
A Jump Pack unit like the old FW unit. For characters they get a Corsairs seer and Prince Yriel.

High salt for this on but Valrak says the source can generally be trusted.
Exodites are coming via Kill Team

Also a Grey Knights Kill Team and a Khorne based Kill Team (so likely World Eaters?)


Again says that EC are supposed to come in Spring 2025 but dates can change at any time.
Also from what he heard GW is painting them in pink and black so not like the one on the Aeldari Codex cover

I can't help but feel that Exodites via Killteam is just GW trolling Exodites fans cause isn't killteam mostly just infantry boxed sets and the whole thing about Exodites is Eldar+dinosaurs instead of vehicles.

That is unless they give them little dinosaur pets!

 Overread wrote:
I can't help but feel that Exodites via Killteam is just GW trolling Exodites fans cause isn't killteam mostly just infantry boxed sets and the whole thing about Exodites is Eldar+dinosaurs instead of vehicles.

That is unless they give them little dinosaur pets!

They could simply go the same way Krieg and supposedly Corsairs are by releasing the base infantry kit via Kill Team first and than a full faction wave in the next edition