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 Lathe Biosas wrote:
The DKoK models feel like a dying Canary in the proverbial Coal Mine.

AoS has always leaned into the less gritty, more cartoony feel that regular Warhammer or 40k, now I feel that that esthetic is creeping into 40k.

The DKoK have a grim feeling, with a touch... or should I say toe hold... of the AoS cartoon feel.

You are aware that the DK (and their clawed horses) have been part of the game for 20-some years at this point, right?

40k is silly; it has been since RT.

I know it all depends on how keywords interact, but is anyone else tempted to make an Imperial Guard cavalry list with both Horse characters, three units of Attilan Rough Riders, and three units of Krieg Death riders?

62 horsey list ftw

Add some Sentinels for armoured cavalry?

ccs wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
The DKoK models feel like a dying Canary in the proverbial Coal Mine.

AoS has always leaned into the less gritty, more cartoony feel that regular Warhammer or 40k, now I feel that that esthetic is creeping into 40k.

The DKoK have a grim feeling, with a touch... or should I say toe hold... of the AoS cartoon feel.

You are aware that the DK (and their clawed horses) have been part of the game for 20-some years at this point, right?

Those horses just had pointy hooves by comparison, these guys are full on cat climbing up gak.

Dudeface wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
The DKoK models feel like a dying Canary in the proverbial Coal Mine.

AoS has always leaned into the less gritty, more cartoony feel that regular Warhammer or 40k, now I feel that that esthetic is creeping into 40k.

The DKoK have a grim feeling, with a touch... or should I say toe hold... of the AoS cartoon feel.

You are aware that the DK (and their clawed horses) have been part of the game for 20-some years at this point, right?

Those horses just had pointy hooves by comparison, these guys are full on cat climbing up gak.

And?

 Dysartes wrote:
Add some Sentinels for armoured cavalry?

Add some Valkyries for Air Cavalry?

 Dryaktylus wrote:
And?

Sigh... I never should have sold my Muties

 skrulnik wrote:
Is there any art showing what the DKOK horses look like without the masks?

What if THAT'S NOT A MASK???? The korpsmen riders just wanted familiar faces on their steeds, so a little body-mod jiggery-pokery...

Dudeface wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
The DKoK models feel like a dying Canary in the proverbial Coal Mine.

AoS has always leaned into the less gritty, more cartoony feel that regular Warhammer or 40k, now I feel that that esthetic is creeping into 40k.

The DKoK have a grim feeling, with a touch... or should I say toe hold... of the AoS cartoon feel.

You are aware that the DK (and their clawed horses) have been part of the game for 20-some years at this point, right?

Those horses just had pointy hooves by comparison, these guys are full on cat climbing up gak.

You've never actually seen the originals then.

I find all of this outrage really sad. Who wants literal ww1 in 40k? What's the point.

This is about the only thing that's clearly not historical and that's good.

Krieg stuff is already appearing in the wild:

Thinking on the new Aspects and the Exarch options:

Would anyone really want to use these additional options from a rules perspective? The Exarch options seem to not mesh well with the rest of the squad.

For example, a Fire Dragon with an axe and fusion pistol is sort of similar to previous editions where the Exarch could get a CC Exarch power of Burning Fist. Problem is one CC oriented model in a squad of meltagun armed Fire Dragons is not really that useful. If they are being charged by enemy CC troops then they'll be in trouble regardless. If they are not, then the Exarch's abilities are effectively being wasted.

Similar reasoning goes for the Swooping Hawk Exarch with the sword and sun pistol option, or the Warp Spider with power blades.

Dire Avengers have had their own plastic kit not based on the guardian kit since 2006 (4th edition). It's from the same era before digital sculpting and had many of the same problems as the guardian kit with two-piece legs, ball and socket arm joints, and a poor fit of the torsos to the legs.

Plastic guardians came out in 1999. The dire avenger kit based on that kit came out in 2000. After DAs got their own kit in 2006 the only change was halving the number of models in the kit from 10 to 5 during late 5th or with the codex release in 6th.

 Dysartes wrote:
Add some Sentinels for armoured cavalry?

Hold up, I'm liking this more and more. Assuming the new models are pointed close to what Lord Solar and the Attillan RR's are, in a 2000 point list you could have the aforementioned 62 horsemen, 9 Scout Sentinels, 6 heavy Sentinels, and 3 10-man infantry units holding backfield objectives. Not a superb list, but definitely interesting and fun. It might even take some people off-guard and win once in a while.

Iracundus wrote:
Thinking on the new Aspects and the Exarch options:

Would anyone really want to use these additional options from a rules perspective? The Exarch options seem to not mesh well with the rest of the squad.

For example, a Fire Dragon with an axe and fusion pistol is sort of similar to previous editions where the Exarch could get a CC Exarch power of Burning Fist. Problem is one CC oriented model in a squad of meltagun armed Fire Dragons is not really that useful. If they are being charged by enemy CC troops then they'll be in trouble regardless. If they are not, then the Exarch's abilities are effectively being wasted.

Similar reasoning goes for the Swooping Hawk Exarch with the sword and sun pistol option, or the Warp Spider with power blades.

One thing to keep in mind is with characters attaching to squads, and the PLs being a little choppy, it might be nice to give them a little backup?

For FDs how many fusion guns do you need to get the job done? Its it worth it to diversify a little? Same question could be asked for most aspects.

It will be interesting to see the rules. I suspect you are right. 40k generally rewards specialization, and aspect warriors are nothing but. The go-to option probably will end up being the one that matches the squad’s gear.

 Hellebore wrote:


You've never actually seen the originals then.

I find all of this outrage really sad. Who wants literal ww1 in 40k? What's the point.

This is about the only thing that's clearly not historical and that's good.

A long time ago, I ran the pewter nightmare that was the Steel Legion, with its ridiculously expensive fraternis Militia... 3 guys to a blister, and you could have 40 maximum.

That army felt very real worldish, inspiration obviously taken from wars in the European Theater.

When the DKoK came out, GW/FW doubled down on the WW1 theme, with wheeled artillery pieces, gas marked horses, and a super trench warfare feel.

You could now relive the 40k version of the Battle of the Somme... if you had more money than any Steel Legion player ever spent on their Armies.

So, yes, I do remember when the DKoK came out. I also feel the sea change in their design, which I feel across a lot of the GW range.

Part of it comes from the advanced plastics that no one had access to back in the day, and now you have leaping and dancing models (ie. Harlequins and Assassins) that are amazing models. The new Warp Spiders are a visual treat.

But, it doesn't feel as GrimDark as it used to.

That's just my opinion. I mean no disrespect to anyone.

I think that a minor aesthetic change is a small price to pay for a now massive plastic range. Catachan who were the #2 plastic army have had 2 limited release character models in the past decades, while the other FW guard regiment, Elysian, never got the attention of Kreig and now have had their vehicle stolen for necromunda and the jump troops role taken by Tempestus Scions.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I think that a minor aesthetic change is a small price to pay for a now massive plastic range. Catching who were the #2 plastic army have had 2 limited release character models in the past decades, while the other FW guard regiment, Elysian, never got the attention of Kreig and now have had their vehicle stolen for necromunda and the jump troops role taken by Tempestus Scions.

I felt the same when the super cool Storm Trooper/ Kasrkin models were originally replaced by Tempestus Scions.

Maybe the Elysians will return. With 40k, you never know.

As happy as I am with the new spiders, it's anyone else thinking that there was a missed opportunity to made them more dynamic as the Phoenix Lord? I mean it seems that only one has some of that web effect on the leg and it would have been cool to see more of that and jumping.

Darkial wrote:
As happy as I am with the new spiders, it's anyone else thinking that there was a missed opportunity to made them more dynamic as the Phoenix Lord? I mean it seems that only one has some of that web effect on the leg and it would have been cool to see more of that and jumping.

They are already filling up their bases pretty well. I think if you tried to make them too dynamic they might end up being too top heavy and tippy. Spiders are also one of the more solid heavy armored aspects, so I’m OK with more rooted poses on them.

Darkial wrote:
As happy as I am with the new spiders, it's anyone else thinking that there was a missed opportunity to made them more dynamic as the Phoenix Lord? I mean it seems that only one has some of that web effect on the leg and it would have been cool to see more of that and jumping.

Well, they're a little more dynamic than the 30 year old originals. I'm not a fan of molded energy swirly stuff so I'm glad only one regular trooper seems to have it. The PL looks like she will need some major surgery to remove it from her.

 Arschbombe wrote:

Darkial wrote:
As happy as I am with the new spiders, it's anyone else thinking that there was a missed opportunity to made them more dynamic as the Phoenix Lord? I mean it seems that only one has some of that web effect on the leg and it would have been cool to see more of that and jumping.

Well, they're a little more dynamic than the 30 year old originals. I'm not a fan of molded energy swirly stuff so I'm glad only one regular trooper seems to have it. The PL looks like she will need some major surgery to remove it from her.

Looks like 2 connection points to the guns and one on the feet. Should be a pretty simple set of cuts.

Darkial wrote:
As happy as I am with the new spiders, it's anyone else thinking that there was a missed opportunity to made them more dynamic as the Phoenix Lord? I mean it seems that only one has some of that web effect on the leg and it would have been cool to see more of that and jumping.

No? The less "dynamic" the sculpts are, the better things will look on the table if multiple units are fielded - and probably even within the same unit of 10 are fielded.

Spiders themselves wear relatively heavy armour and mostly move around by teleporting so it makes sense not to have them too dynamic and mostly look like they've just burst out of the warp with guns at the ready.

The convo about the Krieg not being grimdark enough is just the paintjob. The eavy metal style does not gel with the aesthetic of the faction. If they had done the old FW models in the same style you'd be saying the exact same thing.*

*Not that there aren't aesthetic changes between the actual models, but that's more to do with making the Kriegers way more bulky looking which I'll admit I'm not a fan of.

It's a Warp SPIDER. So we have to give her eight limbs, six eyes, and a web-shaped swirly gak. SPIDER! Geddit?!

Sorry, I'm not following you.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:


So, yes, I do remember when the DKoK came out. I also feel the sea change in their design, which I feel across a lot of the GW range.

I don't think there's been some drastic change in the designs themselves that make them feel less grimdark though.

It's just a combination of the way they've been painted, the more dynamic poses, and that forgeworld miniatures were just slightly more realistically proportioned/scaled.

 Dysartes wrote:

Darkial wrote:
As happy as I am with the new spiders, it's anyone else thinking that there was a missed opportunity to made them more dynamic as the Phoenix Lord? I mean it seems that only one has some of that web effect on the leg and it would have been cool to see more of that and jumping.

No? The less "dynamic" the sculpts are, the better things will look on the table if multiple units are fielded - and probably even within the same unit of 10 are fielded.

I brought this up to a local player yesterday. What if we can no longer take units of 10? Maybe 5 will become the only option? I have no specific knowledge or preference but observed how GW has made those changes with other units.

I too have to second the "its just the paintjob bruh" argument. DKoK are totally fine as long as you weather them nice and proper, and shy away from bright saturated colours.

I must admit disliking the Eavy Metal paint style more and more as I get older.. it just looks derpy on anything other than LI scale models IMHO

Sarigar wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Darkial wrote:
As happy as I am with the new spiders, it's anyone else thinking that there was a missed opportunity to made them more dynamic as the Phoenix Lord? I mean it seems that only one has some of that web effect on the leg and it would have been cool to see more of that and jumping.

No? The less "dynamic" the sculpts are, the better things will look on the table if multiple units are fielded - and probably even within the same unit of 10 are fielded.

I brought this up to a local player yesterday. What if we can no longer take units of 10? Maybe 5 will become the only option? I have no specific knowledge or preference but observed how GW has made those changes with other units.

no other unit of aspect warriors has been limited to five. they even are selling scorpions in boxes of ten at the moment


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also my feeling on paint jobs is that, in general, people need to use more color, not less. tables look boring if everyone is painted in drab colors. 2nd edition got this right