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chaos0xomega wrote:
Insofar as i can tell though none of the units are keyworded though? Ie, nothing stopping you pr giving you reason tp not say that your vostroyans are best represented by cadian command squads leading dkok infantry squads supported by catachan heavy weapons, etc. Unlike previous editions where strats and special rules were all tied to specific cadia/catachan/krieg keywords, it doesnt look like those limitations apply here?

We don't know, the krieg Commissar might only attack to krieg units for exmaple.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, your IG army is now either Cadian, Catachan, or Krieg?

If you play something else (say Vostroyan), who have to decide which of those armies fits your force the best?

You can play whatever regiment suits you. You could even play Catachans as Cadians or Krieg. Or play them with either rules in the same army.

BTW, the 'Cadia Stands!' rule reads more like 'Cadia Ducks!'

 Dryaktylus wrote:
[

BTW, the 'Cadia Stands!' rule reads more like 'Cadia Ducks!'

'Cadia Stands!' (Behind this solid looking bit of rubble)

If we extrapolate this to the poster boys: how long until we formally see a push for space marine deathwolf terminators walking alongside a unit of wolfanguary guard lead by marneus wolfgar?

Dudeface wrote:
If we extrapolate this to the poster boys: how long until we formally see a push for space marine deathwolf terminators walking alongside a unit of wolfanguary guard lead by marneus wolfgar?

Only if he's in a redemption dreadnought body.

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:
[

BTW, the 'Cadia Stands!' rule reads more like 'Cadia Ducks!'

'Cadia Stands!' (Behind this solid looking bit of rubble)

…and the rubble is probably an actual piece of Cadia

Too soon?

Stupid choise to give the special rules names from specific regiments. They should have been generic regimental strategies like marines and CSM have.
Any other regiment can choose the best rules they like, but Cadia (for example) will look really silly if they want to use catachan tactics. So Cadians are suddenly among the least flexible regiment in the Guard.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Insofar as i can tell though none of the units are keyworded though? Ie, nothing stopping you pr giving you reason tp not say that your vostroyans are best represented by cadian command squads leading dkok infantry squads supported by catachan heavy weapons, etc. Unlike previous editions where strats and special rules were all tied to specific cadia/catachan/krieg keywords, it doesnt look like those limitations apply here?

Given characters are locked to specific units these days, let’s be honest they’re only going to let you put each command squad in the appropriate infantry squads…

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Goin’ back to third/fourth ed. when the metal Cadian/Catachan/Mordian models landed. Then people wanted more flexibility and the first trait systems emerged.
The cycle begins anew!

...metal Cadian/Catachan/Mordian(/Tallarn/Valhallan/Praetorian) were second edition, not 3rd/4th.

Don't forget the best IG models, and the reason to buy Chimeras: The Armageddon Steel Legion.

This was an obvious incoming change, it's still unwelcome and puts me off a little bit more from my favorite army.

It's predictable but very disappointing. The Guard are all about unique myriad regiments across the galaxy. You can convert whatever you like as long as they've got a lasgun to fight the enemies of the Imperium.

Now we get 3 regiments and that's it. I'm surprised they didn't get rid of Catachans. Couldn't even be arsed to release new models for them eh.

Dudeface wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Insofar as i can tell though none of the units are keyworded though? Ie, nothing stopping you pr giving you reason tp not say that your vostroyans are best represented by cadian command squads leading dkok infantry squads supported by catachan heavy weapons, etc. Unlike previous editions where strats and special rules were all tied to specific cadia/catachan/krieg keywords, it doesnt look like those limitations apply here?

We don't know, the krieg Commissar might only attack to krieg units for exmaple.

The Krieg commissar is part of the Krieg command squad, so almost certainly only attaches to Death Korp units (probably not even engineers).

Ah, forgot that command squads attach and arent just standalone units. Nvm.

Of course the future fix to all of this is to have the new Catachan kit/kill team take advantage of their death world physiques to roll guys like Harker into the infantry squad - carrying single man portable versions of the heavy bolter and missile launcher (perhaps even a lasfusil or rotor cannon).

So the smaller tripod mounted field guns are in heavy weapon teams, but one of the infantry squads is still carrying man-portable heavy weapons in squads as an alternative to the second flamer.

 KidCthulhu wrote:
Wow, this is depressing for my army. I haven't played since maybe 8th but now I feel even less inclined to play the current game.

This utterly sucks ass.

They've taken No Model, No Rules too far.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Don't forget the best IG models, and the reason to buy Chimeras: The Armageddon Steel Legion.

AMEN!

On some level I understand the frustration of having generic infantry squads removed, but... seriously, does it matter that now instead of fielding your Elysians/Steel Legion/Vostroyans/Praetorians/Mordians/Tallarn/Tanith/Savlarans/Harkoni/Valhallans/Ventrillians/Baranites/whathaveyou as "Infantry Squad" they might, on paper, now be referred to as "Cadian Infantry Squad" or "Catachan Infantry Squad", etc?

chaos0xomega wrote:
On some level I understand the frustration of having generic infantry squads removed, but... seriously, does it matter that now instead of fielding your Elysians/Steel Legion/Vostroyans/Praetorians/Mordians/Tallarn/Tanith/Savlarans/Harkoni/Valhallans/Ventrillians/Baranites/whathaveyou as "Infantry Squad" they might, on paper, now be referred to as "Cadian Infantry Squad" or "Catachan Infantry Squad", etc?

I think the thing is that for decades the Imperial Guard has been more or less generic at its very core (even if they were all cadian models for the most part). So it was really easy to run your custom themed army either just calling it what you liked or using one of the sub-army rules if present in the codex for that edition. Formally calling everything Cadian etc.... Means that bit of flavour is fully lost.

It would be a bit like going to Tyrainds and saying "ok ALL Tyranids are now Hive Fleet Kraken, except for Carnifex which are Behemoth.

Its a bit of a narrative blow; especially as whilst we have Krieg and Cadian - its less likely that GW will give IG multiple different themed regiments like they did in the past in metal. Who knows perhaps they will and they've plans to take the IG in the same direction as Marines.


I can see why this isn't a popular choice for Guard players even if its purely a name at the top of a unit profile card

It would bother me less if they filed the names off and had assault/support/tactical squads or something. Which there is historical precedent for, albeit way back in RT. So your NMNR box of cadians might make a tac squad, catachans assault, etc.

Of course, ditching NMNR and letting people model what they want, would be appropriate in-universe for their army, etc. would be optimal. But I’m not holding my breath on that.

 Gibblets wrote:
This was an obvious incoming change, it's still unwelcome and puts me off a little bit more from my favorite army.

It's just more push to the game side of wargaming and away from the war side.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Gibblets wrote:
This was an obvious incoming change, it's still unwelcome and puts me off a little bit more from my favorite army.

It's just more push to the game side of wargaming and away from the war side.

Yep it feels another step towards model kits being upgrade packs for your army. If heavy weapons are relegated to Heavy Weapons Team only it'll be bad turn for the future of the army.

I'm not actually planning on using GW models for most of my infantry, but rather using Wargames Atlantic and/or 3D printed models. Some tournaments wouldn't allow me to use this, but I'll play a different army if I want to go to those tournaments. So while thematically I'm losing the ability to take a generic infantry squad of "my dudes", I think I'll have enough visual distinction to be able to say, "These guys with the foreign legion hats are Cadians, these other guys over here are Catachans, etc."

chaos0xomega wrote:
On some level I understand the frustration of having generic infantry squads removed, but... seriously, does it matter that now instead of fielding your Elysians/Steel Legion/Vostroyans/Praetorians/Mordians/Tallarn/Tanith/Savlarans/Harkoni/Valhallans/Ventrillians/Baranites/whathaveyou as "Infantry Squad" they might, on paper, now be referred to as "Cadian Infantry Squad" or "Catachan Infantry Squad", etc?

Losing the option of having heavy weapons embedded in your basic squads in order to satisfy the devil that is NMNR does matter, yes.

chaos0xomega wrote:
On some level I understand the frustration of having generic infantry squads removed, but... seriously, does it matter that now instead of fielding your Elysians/Steel Legion/Vostroyans/Praetorians/Mordians/Tallarn/Tanith/Savlarans/Harkoni/Valhallans/Ventrillians/Baranites/whathaveyou as "Infantry Squad" they might, on paper, now be referred to as "Cadian Infantry Squad" or "Catachan Infantry Squad", etc?

given that flair and background is the only real reason to keep playing the army over editions, changing that is a downer
and the imperial army changing from the faceless masses thrown into the grinder where Cadia/Catachan/Krieg is just one of many without any real difference, to special regiments only is a big change in flair

and I guess we won't see the big mix&match so peoples regiments from the past won't be 100% compatible (so lets see what happens to Space Wolves, maybe one of my armies will keep its flair)

chaos0xomega wrote:
On some level I understand the frustration of having generic infantry squads removed, but... seriously, does it matter that now instead of fielding your Elysians/Steel Legion/Vostroyans/Praetorians/Mordians/Tallarn/Tanith/Savlarans/Harkoni/Valhallans/Ventrillians/Baranites/whathaveyou as "Infantry Squad" they might, on paper, now be referred to as "Cadian Infantry Squad" or "Catachan Infantry Squad", etc?

There's the angle that all your valhallan infantry squads can be cadian/catachan/krieg all simultaneously with little to no visual indication to your opponent which is which.

 Dysartes wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
On some level I understand the frustration of having generic infantry squads removed, but... seriously, does it matter that now instead of fielding your Elysians/Steel Legion/Vostroyans/Praetorians/Mordians/Tallarn/Tanith/Savlarans/Harkoni/Valhallans/Ventrillians/Baranites/whathaveyou as "Infantry Squad" they might, on paper, now be referred to as "Cadian Infantry Squad" or "Catachan Infantry Squad", etc?

Losing the option of having heavy weapons embedded in your basic squads in order to satisfy the devil that is NMNR does matter, yes.

Particularly if you have lovingly painted squads of metal guard with embedded heavy weapons.

 Overread wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
On some level I understand the frustration of having generic infantry squads removed, but... seriously, does it matter that now instead of fielding your Elysians/Steel Legion/Vostroyans/Praetorians/Mordians/Tallarn/Tanith/Savlarans/Harkoni/Valhallans/Ventrillians/Baranites/whathaveyou as "Infantry Squad" they might, on paper, now be referred to as "Cadian Infantry Squad" or "Catachan Infantry Squad", etc?

I think the thing is that for decades the Imperial Guard has been more or less generic at its very core (even if they were all cadian models for the most part). So it was really easy to run your custom themed army either just calling it what you liked or using one of the sub-army rules if present in the codex for that edition. Formally calling everything Cadian etc.... Means that bit of flavour is fully lost.

It would be a bit like going to Tyrainds and saying "ok ALL Tyranids are now Hive Fleet Kraken, except for Carnifex which are Behemoth.

Its a bit of a narrative blow; especially as whilst we have Krieg and Cadian - its less likely that GW will give IG multiple different themed regiments like they did in the past in metal. Who knows perhaps they will and they've plans to take the IG in the same direction as Marines.


I can see why this isn't a popular choice for Guard players even if its purely a name at the top of a unit profile card

I guess im not seeing what changes or what flavor is being lost as a result of what is basically a change in administrative bookkeeping. My custom regiment is still my custom regiment, all the flavor and lore is atill there. The only thing that changed is what my units are referred to as on the piece of paper or my phone screen i hand my opponent before the game starts. After that, my infantet squads are infa try squads, command squads are command squads, etc.

Complaining that flavor is being lost because the units are specifically named is as nonsensical as doing the same if all the units were renamed to "unit 1", "unit 2", "unit 3". Its actually wholly irrelevant.

Now, loss of HWTs in infantry squads and loss of option flexibility? Yeah, thats a valid complaint.

 Olthannon wrote:
It's predictable but very disappointing. The Guard are all about unique myriad regiments across the galaxy. You can convert whatever you like as long as they've got a lasgun to fight the enemies of the Imperium.

Now we get 3 regiments and that's it. I'm surprised they didn't get rid of Catachans. Couldn't even be arsed to release new models for them eh.

To be fair, GW is releasing a full wave of Death Korps (minus the already existing infantry squad) with the new codex. It's a bit much to ask for another regiment on top of that.

Which is not to say Catachans couldn't use an update. They were anatomically wondrous even on their release a quarter of a century ago and age certainly hasn't done them any favors.

But new Catachans would have meant no Krieg this time around. That's not a great option either.

Considering how long Catachans have been kept around with old kits, I'm sure the plan is to give them the KT -> new range treatment eventually. It's just a question of how much longer.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Overread wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
On some level I understand the frustration of having generic infantry squads removed, but... seriously, does it matter that now instead of fielding your Elysians/Steel Legion/Vostroyans/Praetorians/Mordians/Tallarn/Tanith/Savlarans/Harkoni/Valhallans/Ventrillians/Baranites/whathaveyou as "Infantry Squad" they might, on paper, now be referred to as "Cadian Infantry Squad" or "Catachan Infantry Squad", etc?

I think the thing is that for decades the Imperial Guard has been more or less generic at its very core (even if they were all cadian models for the most part). So it was really easy to run your custom themed army either just calling it what you liked or using one of the sub-army rules if present in the codex for that edition. Formally calling everything Cadian etc.... Means that bit of flavour is fully lost.

It would be a bit like going to Tyrainds and saying "ok ALL Tyranids are now Hive Fleet Kraken, except for Carnifex which are Behemoth.

Its a bit of a narrative blow; especially as whilst we have Krieg and Cadian - its less likely that GW will give IG multiple different themed regiments like they did in the past in metal. Who knows perhaps they will and they've plans to take the IG in the same direction as Marines.


I can see why this isn't a popular choice for Guard players even if its purely a name at the top of a unit profile card

I guess im not seeing what changes or what flavor is being lost as a result of what is basically a change in administrative bookkeeping. My custom regiment is still my custom regiment, all the flavor and lore is atill there. The only thing that changed is what my units are referred to as on the piece of paper or my phone screen i hand my opponent before the game starts. After that, my infantet squads are infa try squads, command squads are command squads, etc.

Complaining that flavor is being lost because the units are specifically named is as nonsensical as doing the same if all the units were renamed to "unit 1", "unit 2", "unit 3". Its actually wholly irrelevant.

Now, loss of HWTs in infantry squads and loss of option flexibility? Yeah, thats a valid complaint.

It's more there's an onus and effort on you to delineate that which of your infantry squads are which type of infantry squad. Be it converting them, repainting them, rebasing them or use of a token etc.

Which sucks if you have a fully painted army or a metal one etc.