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I’m not sure about the weirdboy. In general he looks kinda alright, but then i start to look closer and… yeah, not my cup of tea. I don’t like effects on minis. And he looks a bit goofy, but not in an orky kind of way.

To me 3-5th edition orks are peak, which probably explains my perception.

This version - I could easily believe is a good 3rd party sculpt. Distinct enough for GW not to sue. It’s like it’s genre agnostic. Could be steampunk, could be WoW type fantasy. It lacks hints of grounded brutality, which old minis had more than a pinch of.

Well... isn't that a disadvantage of plastic injection-molding that should be more hidden?

 Shakalooloo wrote:
The description of the Weirdboy avoids gendered pronouns. "lightning crackles from its brain", "the skull-topped staff in their hands" Orks are genderless asexually-reproducing fungus people, so I guess it does make sense.

They've been doing this more and more, lately. Nekrosor Ammentar and Irridan the Witness are other recent examples.

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
The description of the Weirdboy avoids gendered pronouns. "lightning crackles from its brain", "the skull-topped staff in their hands" Orks are genderless asexually-reproducing fungus people, so I guess it does make sense.

They've been doing this more and more, lately. Nekrosor Ammentar and Irridan the Witness are other recent examples.

Well for Nekrosor at least they'd probably be fully on board with the meme: "No, i mean, what's in your pants?" "Doom."

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Overread wrote:
It's been doing that for a long while (many months). Basically if you ping enough times (Which is super easy if you view all the models from an army) it hits you with Captchas.

It's not just GW either; a lot of hosts are a LOT more hot on it. It's mostly because of AI on two fronts

1) AI lets spammers spam even more

2) AI people looking for data to trawl - same thing that hits Dakka every so often now with a wave of bots.


Basically sites in general have had to tighten up and that meas more times real humans get caught up

As if I did not have enough reason to despise AI. Every day there's something new...

It's not just AI though, there also are a lot of cyber attacks going on targeting mid sized companies. At work I had to deal with these things more often in the last two years than in my whole work life. Obviously the new AI coding tools are accellerating those people as well.

Well, I kinda like the WierdBoy.

Not too over the top, not too plain. Just enough goofy.

I think the new Weirdboy is pretty good. I am not normally a fan of lots of wires and other spindly things sticking out of models, because (1) it's often gratuitous detail that they added 'because they could', and (2) they inevitably get bent or broken. But in this case it seems to work; the wires suggest he's full of power and about to blow. I think he looks much better than the Wurrboy, which had a really fuggly head - although the hunched pose kind of undermines the dynamic. Still, easily the most interesting new model so far.

Call me grumpy, but I do not like the funny Orks. I love the grimdark atmosfere of 40k and making them clowns does not help.

I found the custodes comments, it seems very politician-like in the wording. Considering GW considers legends supported, that 11th will use 10ths datasheets initially, through is not throughout, and the listing of units/types is very mixed, I remain suspicious.

Good job digging that out. It's worth noting that "no plans to do <foo> any time soon" is corporate speech which usually translate to "not within the next two years".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

zambulachan wrote:
Call me grumpy, but I do not like the funny Orks. I love the grimdark atmosfere of 40k and making them clowns does not help.

I'm not sure what's supposed to be funny about him. He is an insane, walking bomb that's both feared by enemies and orks alike.

Ork's aren't clowns, the grimdark thing about them is that your struggle for survival, your suffering, the challenges of eternal war and even your glimmers of hope are nothing but a joke to them.

On the cables and frazzles? I do agree the model is in a weird (heh) middle spot. Either do more frazzles, or fewer cables, because it currently looks a bit unbalanced.

But!

On the cables? I’d rather have stuff I can easily remove and smooth over. Minute or so with clippers and you can remove some or all of them.

The frazzles? Whilst more involved, adding arcing electricity and power effects isn’t an uncommon conversion. Just need some fine wire and careful angling to make them spiky and jumpy.

The hands on the staff both being in the same orientation to me really sells he’s clinging on for dear life. Because it’s less a weapon, and more a safety precaution, something to allow him to Earth the energy should a big old power vomit not be needed right now.

Also, article specifically mentions glowing vomit? One hopes the Blood Angels have a stock of golden half masks!

So, dissecting the trailer showing the weird boy.
(link directly to the scene with the weird boy: https://youtu.be/nHE6-XpUd74?t=92 )

Here we see the new weirdboy appears from a cloud of green fog with energy zapping around it. Da Jump?


Here it is vomiting warp all over the approaching blood angels, apparently melting their armor.

In 7th's edition this power was a high AP template called "Power Vomit"

Codex - Orks 7th Edition wrote:Fanged maw yawning wide, the Weirdboy vomits a roiling tide of searing green psycho-plasma from his churning innards that burns through everything in its path, leaving nothing but scorched earth and fluorescent embers in its wake.

Here it is casting some area of effect spell which makes the helmets of multiple approaching blood angels explode from the inside. 'eadbanger has always been a single target spell, often described as a bolt of engery, but maybe it got an upgrade. In novels there are multiple sources which talk about weird boyz making multiple heads (including their own) explode at the same time.


Luckily, the blood angel chaplain jumps in and takes the spotlight from the vile xenos beast, slaying it with his power axe. The weird boy disappears in a massive green explosion and a rain of gore.

So we will probably keep da jump and 'eadbanger and get Power Vomit on top of that. The weird boy will keep exploding when killed as it always has and still has a staff to whack a few space marines to death as it did in the past.

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
The description of the Weirdboy avoids gendered pronouns. "lightning crackles from its brain", "the skull-topped staff in their hands" Orks are genderless asexually-reproducing fungus people, so I guess it does make sense.

They've been doing this more and more, lately. Nekrosor Ammentar and Irridan the Witness are other recent examples.

It's one thing for a robot and an eldar, but something new entirely for Da Boyz! About damn time.

Dudeface wrote:
I found the custodes comments, it seems very politician-like in the wording. Considering GW considers legends supported, that 11th will use 10ths datasheets initially, through is not throughout, and the listing of units/types is very mixed, I remain suspicious.

Just ditch the fixed unit sizes, good grief. "the unit strength of Custodian Guard in Warhammer 40,000 is 4 or 5" okay, but what is wrong with 6?

Has GW not realised how embarrassing this looks?



Just give the units a PPM cost, a min and a max, and be done with it.

"We can't let you use 4 Allarus, that would completely break the game!!!!!!"

 Ashiraya wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
I found the custodes comments, it seems very politician-like in the wording. Considering GW considers legends supported, that 11th will use 10ths datasheets initially, through is not throughout, and the listing of units/types is very mixed, I remain suspicious.

Just ditch the fixed unit sizes, good grief. "the unit strength of Custodian Guard in Warhammer 40,000 is 4 or 5" okay, but what is wrong with 6?

Has GW not realised how embarrassing this looks?



Just give the units a PPM cost, a min and a max, and be done with it.

"We can't let you use 4 Allarus, that would completely break the game!!!!!!"

It's because the kit was designed to build the captain model so you could be at -1 from the 3 man box. Meganobz have the same problem because of the Mek.

One perk of the by squad size pointing is that it lets you give discounts for times when the second half of the squad does not give the same bang as the first. Little perk for not going full min-sized squads. Or when the squad leader is pulling a disproportionate amount of weight vs. the troopers.

But then you have situations like that where you just want to slap someone for not just going back to a straight PPM mode.

Fingers crossed 11th will have sensible point structures. But not holding my breath.

More specifically, it's because that box is the only official way for you to build an Allarus captain model, so GW has no choice but to allow a carveout for it.

But GW is not interested in allowing the players a millimeter more than they absolutely must, hence this ridiculous unit size layout. Again, if 2, 3, 5 and 6 models doesn't break the game, why not allow 4?

(The real reason is that GW wants to discourage conversions, by the way. If you want a Space Marine Captain, you are supposed to buy the Captain clamshell, not convert it from an Intercessor. So, to prevent you doing the latter, GW doesn't support 9-model units, except specifically in cases like this where building the leader out of the unit is the only option available).







Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nevelon wrote:
One perk of the by squad size pointing is that it lets you give discounts for times when the second half of the squad does not give the same bang as the first. Little perk for not going full min-sized squads. Or when the squad leader is pulling a disproportionate amount of weight vs. the troopers.

Horus Heresy 1.0 already had this, btw. I believe Tacticals were 150 points for the first 10 and 10PPM after that due to the vulnerability of large footslogging bricks. Easy to do the same with Scourges and similar frontloaded units.

I remember back when GW touted themselves as a "Miniature Company first and foremost". They made miniatures, and it just happened to have a game to use them in.

It used to be all about the minis, and the hobby of what you could do with them and how to level up your customization skills. Now it almost seems like the opposite.

To some extent it's on the community too.

I see people celebrate boxlocking because "now it will be easier for new players to build an optimal comp list" while caring not one iota for the value of the customisation in itself. The day I lamented Slaves to Darkness over in AoS losing their myriad incredibly flavourful cultist units (one of the main draws of the faction, imo) in a general AoS discord, and found everyone disagreed with me because they solely saw the cultists as something making it more work to build the ideal tournament list, something inside me just broke and I felt like I was in the wrong community.

And it's not like boxlocking streamlines the gameplay, rather the opposite. Look at the absurd Nemesis Claw datasheet. The unit has to take one of each of a gorillion weapons because the box doesn't come with duplicates so GW won't let you double up in your list either.

It's the biggest reason I mainly play 30k right now, and my 40k/AoS projects are just hobby-only without being geared towards a particular gameplay purpose. (Not that 30k is safe from boxlocking and similar scourges, but at least it's more intact for the time being...)

Eh it depends "which community"

Forums often attract gamers; meanwhile instagram attracts artists.


Also don't forget its possible to enjoy having kits that are fully represented in the rules and lament that options have been reduced from BOTH.


For me I am glad to see a game where converting is optional not mandatory; however I am sad when we see things like Swords and Spears having the same stats; or Tyranid Warriors losing ALL of hteir close combat variety (And this in time I'm sure kit choices)


At the same time I can also recognise that since 2nd/3rd edition the number of models per army has grown a lot so instead of a handful of generalists with lots of optional parts; we now have a handful of more unique looking speicalists

 Overread wrote:
Eh it depends "which community"

Forums often attract gamers; meanwhile instagram attracts artists.


Also don't forget its possible to enjoy having kits that are fully represented in the rules and lament that options have been reduced from BOTH.


For me I am glad to see a game where converting is optional not mandatory; however I am sad when we see things like Swords and Spears having the same stats; or Tyranid Warriors losing ALL of hteir close combat variety (And this in time I'm sure kit choices)


At the same time I can also recognise that since 2nd/3rd edition the number of models per army has grown a lot so instead of a handful of generalists with lots of optional parts; we now have a handful of more unique looking speicalists

It's a tough one, even on the warriors. I understand your stance and to some degree I agree with it. But conversely you can now have each warrior be visually distinct without having a mismatched nonsense unit that pays for each arm separately.

So it's a blessing on one hand and a reduction on the other.

For Warriors in particular I am milder on it than most, in part because my favoured loadout (the iconic scything talon + rending claw loadout from DoWII) never actually did much of anything on the tabletop, and in part because the melee weapons all ultimately did the same thing (low/medium strength anti-infantry) so there is less lost by standardising them.

Compare and contrast with Sternguard, whose loadout and strategic flexibility was drastically hurt by the change to combi-weapons. Combi-melta sternguard just isn't remotely the same genre of unit it was pre-10th.

Most egregious probably is the XV8 Crisis Suit unit, who had an extremely good idea going on in 9th edition (good weapons cost more, and the guns get more expensive the more duplicates you take of that particular gun) which just needed some refining to tune the numbers better. 10th edition just flipped the table with that and gave us 3 near-fixed loadouts, one of which cannot be built from a single box (ironic), and leaving the loadout on the actual cover of the box illegal.

Necromunda has some great ideas with alternative weapons and bits smaller boxes and Killteam has most kits with dual build per sprue. So its not like GW does not encourage conversions in 40k, I think they just want to make things easier for themselves with the move of self-contained boxes (making it rules simplified) and jigsaw one built kits (making minis superdynamic and easy to cast) but a nightmare for converters.

I have the mindset that not everything should be made into convertable kits but having extras on some boxes would be a good balance for 40k. I quite like the Spacemarine heads or the skulls/heads kind of kits they do.

I'm of a couple minds about it. Having primarily played Deathwatch which is in theory a faction entirely about creating "your doods" I think a lot of it is a theory vs reality situation. Tons of unique options sounds good in theory, but put into practice, you end up very constricted by opportunity costs and meta factors. Also, lets be clear, for all the times the correct load out involved 20 some arms that weren't in the box at all, or even when you had to buy a box 5 times to get enough arms for one unit.... yeah, don't miss that one bit.

In many ways, I've found the less unique the rules in a game, the more freedom I feel to do what I want with it. Swords and spears being the same means I get to design my guys to have the weapons I want. Forests and ruins working the same gives me incredible agency in how I design the table. I've gotten a lot more into customizing my stuff this edition where I didn't feel like I was going to constantly need to micromanage equipment.

It’s a balancing act.

If various powerful combinations require conversion (3.5 Daemon Princes being one example), then new players are at a disadvantage.

But, if you lock people into Only What Comes In The Box, everyone is in theory on an even footing. Until it doesn’t apply to say, Devastator Squads, which I believe still have the option to arm in any combo?

Plastic is still infinitely easier to convert and work with than metal. But, the more dynamic poses can still limit options compared to more staid poses. And if you’re purely limited to what’s in a single box? Much of the impetus to convert is removed, other than to vary the aesthetic a bit.

I’m just beginning my second Heresy Mega Project, with 150 or so infantry to be built. Each Mk only has five poses. Which irritates many. But, I kind of appreciate that from a painting point of view, once you’ve done a couple of each pose? You know what you’re doing and my pace picks up.

But hopefully we can at least agree GW kits have never been quite as immediately accessible. They go together like a dream with no gaps. And whilst some kits are much worse than others, mould lines are much lighter on average, starting off barely noticable on bare plastic (but you are still cleaning them off, aren’t you??).

At the very, very least? I’ll never, ever, ever have to build a sodding metal Hive Tyrant ever again ever.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If various powerful combinations require conversion (3.5 Daemon Princes being one example), then new players are at a disadvantage.

Again, I know I am probably an odd one out, but to me this isn't a good reason. GW's rules writing has always been inconsistent at best and just plain shoddy at worst. The rules are not why I am here, and I see little purpose in compromising the hobby side for the sake of the rules, when the hobby side is where the real value actually is (since unlike the rules, GW models are almost always excellent). Besides, GW flips the table on the rules every 3-6 years (sometimes less, if your army gets table flipped with an index edition -and- its subsequent codex) whereas models last essentially forever, so the former I don't treat as having that much authority over the latter, since what is "good" now might be nerfed into oblivion by 2027.

But this is also why I never saw any appeal in TTS. Having cool models and putting them into action with a game is what gives the game its draw. Remove the model part and all you get is a game system that does not nearly so comfortably compete with other companies' lines.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s a balancing act.

If various powerful combinations require conversion (3.5 Daemon Princes being one example), then new players are at a disadvantage.

But, if you lock people into Only What Comes In The Box, everyone is in theory on an even footing. Until it doesn’t apply to say, Devastator Squads, which I believe still have the option to arm in any combo?

Plastic is still infinitely easier to convert and work with than metal. But, the more dynamic poses can still limit options compared to more staid poses. And if you’re purely limited to what’s in a single box? Much of the impetus to convert is removed, other than to vary the aesthetic a bit.

I’m just beginning my second Heresy Mega Project, with 150 or so infantry to be built. Each Mk only has five poses. Which irritates many. But, I kind of appreciate that from a painting point of view, once you’ve done a couple of each pose? You know what you’re doing and my pace picks up.

But hopefully we can at least agree GW kits have never been quite as immediately accessible. They go together like a dream with no gaps. And whilst some kits are much worse than others, mould lines are much lighter on average, starting off barely noticable on bare plastic (but you are still cleaning them off, aren’t you??).

At the very, very least? I’ll never, ever, ever have to build a sodding metal Hive Tyrant ever again ever.

Amen to that, the damned thing needed welding.

What GW’s insane obsession with making rules only for what’s exactly on the box has killed is any amount of conversion (not because you can't but because they just don't give you extra bits or customization in most boxes, like nu-mutilators or most aos kits) or reusability, or getting more value out of boxes (as someone said, making characters out of a box of infantry and still being able to use the rest to make units bigger).

What’s worse, Primaris range has substituted an absolute masterpiece of miniature wargaming range in customization, inter-kit compatibility, and variety (firstborn marines that only needed longer legs) with an aberration born out of the most corporate mandate that has ever existed in wargaming.
One could expect the change to Primaris would have given us, at the expense of inter-kit compatibility, unique kits that look awesome, because if your units are each a single box, why not make them more unique and interesting?

But no.

We are at a point where we have 4 boxes of basically MK X normal infantry (Intercessors, Hellblasters, the ones with flamers, the ones with absurdly ugly box missile weapons) where not a part of any kit can be used in any other kit, with the exception of heads, and instead of using that to create interesting sculpts, they are literally all the same (with the exception of the Hellblaster power pack).
Those 4 units could have been a generic MK X body with upgrade sprues for weapons. Why make interesting flamer-looking marines with exhausts and breather helmets? Nah.

You know what disadvantages new players? The extremely toxic and competitive minded 40k community that rejects any amount of proxyn, 3rd party stuff (your tank its not exactly the same shape of the official model so it offers a competitive advantage), etc...

There have been 0 positives for the community in any change GW has done to their rules or kits in the last 10 years. No matter how they try to spin it (great Blood Bowl teams are one in a box, sadly you still need to buy 57€ resin-only assassins, bull centaurs, or big guys for most teams), and I’m tired of people trying to defend a corporation that has been gaking on the hobby (wargaming, not Warhammer) for years and years.

 Galas wrote:

You know what disadvantages new players? The extremely toxic and competitive minded 40k community that rejects any amount of proxyn, 3rd party stuff (your tank its not exactly the same shape of the official model so it offers a competitive advantage), etc...

Is that really true though?
Outside of tournaments I'd argue proxies are as strong as they've ever been if not stronger. 3D printing exploded the market for proxies and GW's attempts to curtail copies means more pressure to creators to be more original. Couple that with the growth of games like One Page Rules and I would argue that once you leave competitive internet discussion groups (where competitive gaming is often the focus as it has a common baseline that's universal to all); and get into real world physical clubs run outside of GW stores (which understandably have more restrictions by their nature and always have); then that idea of proxies is VASTLY more broad and open.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Spoiler:

It’s a balancing act.

If various powerful combinations require conversion (3.5 Daemon Princes being one example), then new players are at a disadvantage.

But, if you lock people into Only What Comes In The Box, everyone is in theory on an even footing. Until it doesn’t apply to say, Devastator Squads, which I believe still have the option to arm in any combo?

Spoiler:

Plastic is still infinitely easier to convert and work with than metal. But, the more dynamic poses can still limit options compared to more staid poses. And if you’re purely limited to what’s in a single box? Much of the impetus to convert is removed, other than to vary the aesthetic a bit.

I’m just beginning my second Heresy Mega Project, with 150 or so infantry to be built. Each Mk only has five poses. Which irritates many. But, I kind of appreciate that from a painting point of view, once you’ve done a couple of each pose? You know what you’re doing and my pace picks up.

But hopefully we can at least agree GW kits have never been quite as immediately accessible. They go together like a dream with no gaps. And whilst some kits are much worse than others, mould lines are much lighter on average, starting off barely noticable on bare plastic (but you are still cleaning them off, aren’t you??).

At the very, very least? I’ll never, ever, ever have to build a sodding metal Hive Tyrant ever again ever.

What's in the box and no model no rules has nothing to do with game balance or preventing disadvantage to certain players, you are imagining customer friendly behaviour. It is a direct result of the chapter house legal fiasco.

GW cannot use legal measures to prevent 3rd party companies making compatible content (if that were possible - no 3rd party manufacturer could ever make anything for any product - imagine being legally bound to buying manufacturers own brand spare parts for your car).

GW can use their game rules to prevent any need to go 3rd party - if you are only allowed to play with the contents of the off the shelf box sets, there is no need to ever buy a 3rd party item.

Out of production models get deleted - because a 3rd party could make a printable alternative.
Classic wargear options not in the box get deleted - because a 3rd party could make a cheap resin alternative.
Flexible squad sizes get deleted - don't go thinking you can turn a spare intercessor into a primaris lieutenant with a 3rd party upgrade set.