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 Galas wrote:
What GW’s insane obsession with making rules only for what’s exactly on the box has killed is any amount of conversion (not because you can't but because they just don't give you extra bits...

Nonsense. I started a WE army from scratch in 2023 and half of it was made with conversions of 'unofficial' minis taken from the HH or CSM ranges plus spare bits from other kits.

It was done to help with the age/quality of certain 40k kits (like the Rhino) and availability (it took a long time to get the separate Slaughterbound model or the discounted WE combat patrol).

Tell me more about how 'any amount of conversion' is dead.

Conversions still exist, but it is getting harder. I don't think it would be that hard to put 1-2 more pistols, another CCW, and a special weapon on the average infantry kit. Heck, I'd be willing to even give up a tactical rock for it!

While to a certain extent I do like that "no models, not rules" does help noobies in the hobby we could find a middle ground. I could live without a huge, generic armory with every option under the sun for every random Sergeant. What I could consider the minimum though: 1. 2-3 CCW/pistol options per squad leader. 2. AT LEAST 3 pistol/CCW options for generic leaders. 3.Drop the "you can only have one of each of these noncomplimentary special weapons per squad" rules because you only get one of each per box. While not perfect for noobs, it's a far cry from what it used to be and still allows veterans some modeling fun.

Yeah every time someone says that GW killed converting I just have to wonder if they are either in a hyper competitive area; or if they are in a hobby phase where they are majority interacting online and simply wound up in groups and with a youtube/search algorithm history that's pushing competitive elements to them.

Because whilst kits might not have as many parts all at some points in the past* (barring a few like the new Defliner); the amount of converting going on now; the amount of 3rd party options; own brand conversions; articles, guides and inspiration - its all honestly massive.
Go hunting for it and you can find SO much. Heck I've got 3 or 4 conversion ideas for soulblight all using GW kits for additional mounted undead that I want to do; and I put zero real effort into finding them.



* I recall having metal and plastic kits in the past that were mono-pose (eg old plastic 40K Gretchen) and mono-parts.

 Galas wrote:


There have been 0 positives for the community in any change GW has done to their rules or kits in the last 10 years.

So, I debated posting a response, because I agree with almost everything else in your post... And that makes it kinda "Well ACTUALLY..." to respond to this one tiny piece.

Look man, Blackstone Fortress was in the past decade, and it was effing awesome- particularly the way it integrated with 40k. They brought back GSC, gave the Sisters respect after a decade of neglect; an awesome Kroot box, a great Craftworlds re-release and Crusade is the best, most fully integrated, faction specific progression system ever attempted by GW, and given the size of the range it serves, I might say any any wargame (I'm probably wrong about that, but I have looked for games with as many factions as 40k offers, and I don't think I've found any). Kill Team integration has been a blessing from the Emperor: it has allowed us to get kits in 40k that GW NEVER would have touched otherwise.

Hell, most game companies can't even survive a decade without a massive change of ownership, while this game is turning 40 next year.

You're not wrong about ANY of your specific complaints... They are all valid, and I agree with most of them. But I can't get behind the one line I quoted- 9th ed Crusade was the best time I've ever had with this game, and 6th and 7th were the only editions that I didn't play (specifically BECAUSE of the mistreatment of Sisters BTW).

A bunch of people wrote:A lot of stuff about conversions being dead

Did you all miss the Crucible of Champions rules? While not as flexible as I'd like, it's certainly a helluva lot easier to encourage conversions than it's been in years.

And that's to say nothing of people who were doing conversions anyways. I turned some Bladeguard into Victrix Guard because I refused to buy Ultramarines-specific models. Added some third-party bolters and the standard from the Primaris Ancient, as well as heads from the Heads Upgrade Kit, and -boom!- all done.

 Insularum wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Spoiler:

It’s a balancing act.

If various powerful combinations require conversion (3.5 Daemon Princes being one example), then new players are at a disadvantage.

But, if you lock people into Only What Comes In The Box, everyone is in theory on an even footing. Until it doesn’t apply to say, Devastator Squads, which I believe still have the option to arm in any combo?

Spoiler:

Plastic is still infinitely easier to convert and work with than metal. But, the more dynamic poses can still limit options compared to more staid poses. And if you’re purely limited to what’s in a single box? Much of the impetus to convert is removed, other than to vary the aesthetic a bit.

I’m just beginning my second Heresy Mega Project, with 150 or so infantry to be built. Each Mk only has five poses. Which irritates many. But, I kind of appreciate that from a painting point of view, once you’ve done a couple of each pose? You know what you’re doing and my pace picks up.

But hopefully we can at least agree GW kits have never been quite as immediately accessible. They go together like a dream with no gaps. And whilst some kits are much worse than others, mould lines are much lighter on average, starting off barely noticable on bare plastic (but you are still cleaning them off, aren’t you??).

At the very, very least? I’ll never, ever, ever have to build a sodding metal Hive Tyrant ever again ever.

What's in the box and no model no rules has nothing to do with game balance or preventing disadvantage to certain players, you are imagining customer friendly behaviour. It is a direct result of the chapter house legal fiasco.

GW cannot use legal measures to prevent 3rd party companies making compatible content (if that were possible - no 3rd party manufacturer could ever make anything for any product - imagine being legally bound to buying manufacturers own brand spare parts for your car).

GW can use their game rules to prevent any need to go 3rd party - if you are only allowed to play with the contents of the off the shelf box sets, there is no need to ever buy a 3rd party item.

Out of production models get deleted - because a 3rd party could make a printable alternative.
Classic wargear options not in the box get deleted - because a 3rd party could make a cheap resin alternative.
Flexible squad sizes get deleted - don't go thinking you can turn a spare intercessor into a primaris lieutenant with a 3rd party upgrade set.

Yep, no rea$$$on at all to buy 3rd party....

 Jidmah wrote:
Good job digging that out. It's worth noting that "no plans to do <foo> any time soon" is corporate speech which usually translate to "not within the next two years".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

zambulachan wrote:
Call me grumpy, but I do not like the funny Orks. I love the grimdark atmosfere of 40k and making them clowns does not help.

I'm not sure what's supposed to be funny about him. He is an insane, walking bomb that's both feared by enemies and orks alike.

Ork's aren't clowns, the grimdark thing about them is that your struggle for survival, your suffering, the challenges of eternal war and even your glimmers of hope are nothing but a joke to them.

In GWs case, sometimes "anytime soon" means "within the next month".

 xttz wrote:

 Galas wrote:
What GW’s insane obsession with making rules only for what’s exactly on the box has killed is any amount of conversion (not because you can't but because they just don't give you extra bits...

Nonsense. I started a WE army from scratch in 2023 and half of it was made with conversions of 'unofficial' minis taken from the HH or CSM ranges plus spare bits from other kits.

It was done to help with the age/quality of certain 40k kits (like the Rhino) and availability (it took a long time to get the separate Slaughterbound model or the discounted WE combat patrol).

Tell me more about how 'any amount of conversion' is dead.

Spoiler:

In what shape or form do new GW kits help with conversions (with the exception of them being plastic), instead of trying to discourage them by making inter-kit compatibility harder (random heads fixed to random legs and other puzzle style building)?

I have built complete ToW armies (Ogre Kingdoms for example) where not two miniatures are the same just by virtue of mixing and matching stuff of the kits of the same range because all of them are compatible with each other.

We all know plastic can be cut down and greenstuff exist, no need to be pedantic about it. Is about what support GW offers. And it has been greatly diminished. Not that long ago, basically all space marines kits could be mixed between them.

(Great conversion btw)

EDIT: And I'm playing tournaments mothly for both tow and 40k so no, I'm engaging with the hobby. I'm talking about GW course of action here. Local groups are local groups as varied as many exist.

 PenitentJake wrote:

 Galas wrote:


There have been 0 positives for the community in any change GW has done to their rules or kits in the last 10 years.

So, I debated posting a response, because I agree with almost everything else in your post... And that makes it kinda "Well ACTUALLY..." to respond to this one tiny piece.

Look man, Blackstone Fortress was in the past decade, and it was effing awesome- particularly the way it integrated with 40k. They brought back GSC, gave the Sisters respect after a decade of neglect; an awesome Kroot box, a great Craftworlds re-release and Crusade is the best, most fully integrated, faction specific progression system ever attempted by GW, and given the size of the range it serves, I might say any any wargame (I'm probably wrong about that, but I have looked for games with as many factions as 40k offers, and I don't think I've found any). Kill Team integration has been a blessing from the Emperor: it has allowed us to get kits in 40k that GW NEVER would have touched otherwise.

Hell, most game companies can't even survive a decade without a massive change of ownership, while this game is turning 40 next year.

You're not wrong about ANY of your specific complaints... They are all valid, and I agree with most of them. But I can't get behind the one line I quoted- 9th ed Crusade was the best time I've ever had with this game, and 6th and 7th were the only editions that I didn't play (specifically BECAUSE of the mistreatment of Sisters BTW).

I don't disagree with what you say. The amount of models, quality, and model ranges its phenomenal. Thats why I'm talking about how they build their kits and their rules. But one has to really take a moment to think about how GW operates. First editions are normally more open ended when they try to revitalize a game system (horus heresy, blood bowl, kill team, MESBG), before starting again with their obsesion with breaking up the rules to discourage anything that they are not directly selling you. One can have preference for specific rules, as you said, Crusade... but in this day and age GW's rules come and go.

 Galas wrote:

We all know plastic can be cut down and greenstuff exist, no need to be pedantic about it. Is about what support GW offers. And it has been greatly diminished. Not that long ago, basically all space marines kits could be mixed between them.

(Great conversion btw)

I think space marines are probably the GW faction with more options than any other GW range.
With that said yes they are less concerned with kits compatibility, specially since the Primaris showed them they can sell full "new" collections to the same people with a design update.
I also believe its shockingly evident on the character minimal sprues with no extra options and eye watering prices the lack of commitment with extra bits for conversions.
I mean, if you give those small sprues extra options for dual or triple builds, I bet you would sell more of the same one off character.
Like I said GW rather prefers to make their lives easier to manage, less development production time to save money and crack on with more units then worry with conversions. Even if they throw us some convertion kits now and then.
Note: Greenstuff is gone im afraid.

You only have to look at the newer Ork kits compared to the older ones to see that you're getting vastly fewer optional parts per box now.

Again! Hey guys, multiple reports now about this, can we take all OT discussion elsewhere and keep this thread solely for 40K N&R? With the new edition on the horizon it'd be great if we could stay on topic and not bury any relevant info or tasty rumours in all this OT chatter. Can we do that? Thanks?

So, from the cinematic trailer, what else are we expecting models wise?

Landspeeder of some variant and the Waaagh Walker are obvious.

I wish they already showed the gravis unit, and told us about it, as I'm interested in seeing whether they just have regular heavy bolters or something more interesting.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:So, from the cinematic trailer, what else are we expecting models wise?

Landspeeder of some variant and the Waaagh Walker are obvious.

For marines:
Jump chaplain
Vanguard vets
Land speeder
Intercessors
Sword and board captain.

Orcs (not my army, so guesses)
Walker
Weirdboy
Boyz
Feels like there should be more going on to balance things.

With the focus on terrain as objectives, I wonder if we will see some in the launch box?

Crimson wrote:I wish they already showed the gravis unit, and told us about it, as I'm interested in seeing whether they just have regular heavy bolters or something more interesting.

We expecting a gravis unit?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So, from the cinematic trailer, what else are we expecting models wise?

Landspeeder of some variant and the Waaagh Walker are obvious.

There's rumoured contents lists all over the thread.

Captain with shield
Librarian
Ancient
Jump chaplain
5 van vets
10 intercessors
Speeder
3 heavy bolter gravis fellas

Weird boy
Warboss
Boss nob
banner fella
20 boyz
10 grots
Wartrakk
Gun platform

 Nevelon wrote:

We expecting a gravis unit?

Yes. With some sort of big bolt weapons.

Odd that we only saw half of that in the trailer.

Thanks.

Kinda makes me want to go dig up the Leviathan trailer and compare that with the box content. Seeing if they showed everything, or if there were suprises.

Mod edit - off-topic post removed

 Nevelon wrote:
Odd that we only saw half of that in the trailer.

Thanks.

Kinda makes me want to go dig up the Leviathan trailer and compare that with the box content. Seeing if they showed everything, or if there were suprises.

I think you can see them in the left of the marine 'last stand', right at the start (22 seconds in). Three heavier figures with bolt weapons.
But then there's also clearly a marine Dreadnaught...

If we are following the 2023 schedule, we'd expect to have the whole box revealed in about 2 weeks?

Although I don't know if there's a similar event to show it off at.

 Tastyfish wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Odd that we only saw half of that in the trailer.

Thanks.

Kinda makes me want to go dig up the Leviathan trailer and compare that with the box content. Seeing if they showed everything, or if there were suprises.

I think you can see them in the left of the marine 'last stand', right at the start (22 seconds in). Three heavier figures with bolt weapons.
But then there's also clearly a marine Dreadnaught...

The ballistus dread also is present in the final scene before the closing logo. It’s a push fit kit from the last box with nid goop sculpted onto it’s base. Might be a new version? Or just added to spice things up a bit?

Maybe alternate weapons for the Ballistus perhaps? Given my renowned love for all things Dreadnought, it having but a single loadout has never really sat right with me.

They’re meant to be well experienced warriors permanently inconvenienced, but still experts with multiple weapon types, the better to support the young’uns.

Now sure, you typically have the core Flexible Dreadnought class (Contemptor, Castraferrum) that can be armed for pretty much any eventuality. And you’ve more specialised classes and chassis for specific jobs. But even those (Leviathan, Saturnine, Deredeo) still have some flexibility in exactly what weapons they’re toting.

Dreadnoughts with no options? That ain’t right man. That’s like Own Brand Cornflakes wrong. Yes it’s still a Dread. But it’s not what I wanted.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Maybe alternate weapons for the Ballistus perhaps? Given my renowned love for all things Dreadnought, it having but a single loadout has never really sat right with me.

They’re meant to be well experienced warriors permanently inconvenienced, but still experts with multiple weapon types, the better to support the young’uns.

Now sure, you typically have the core Flexible Dreadnought class (Contemptor, Castraferrum) that can be armed for pretty much any eventuality. And you’ve more specialised classes and chassis for specific jobs. But even those (Leviathan, Saturnine, Deredeo) still have some flexibility in exactly what weapons they’re toting.

Dreadnoughts with no options? That ain’t right man. That’s like Own Brand Cornflakes wrong. Yes it’s still a Dread. But it’s not what I wanted.

But what would they put in a full ballistus kit as options? We have the redemptor for flex and the brutalus for close combat.

Remove sculpted nid detail
Make more pose-able like the redemptor.
Option to swap SBs for frag launchers.
Steal the plasma arm from the redemptor.
Add a TLAC for riflemen fun?

I’d love to see it, but it’s got to be a real low priority for GW to do.

Option to double up each arm weapon (so twin Lascannon on each arm, or Missile Pod on each arm). Quad Accelerator Autocannon seems like fun for obliterating light vehicles. How about a Heavy Conversion Beamer? Maybe a massive Grav Gun?

 Nevelon wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Maybe alternate weapons for the Ballistus perhaps? Given my renowned love for all things Dreadnought, it having but a single loadout has never really sat right with me.

They’re meant to be well experienced warriors permanently inconvenienced, but still experts with multiple weapon types, the better to support the young’uns.

Now sure, you typically have the core Flexible Dreadnought class (Contemptor, Castraferrum) that can be armed for pretty much any eventuality. And you’ve more specialised classes and chassis for specific jobs. But even those (Leviathan, Saturnine, Deredeo) still have some flexibility in exactly what weapons they’re toting.

Dreadnoughts with no options? That ain’t right man. That’s like Own Brand Cornflakes wrong. Yes it’s still a Dread. But it’s not what I wanted.

But what would they put in a full ballistus kit as options? We have the redemptor for flex and the brutalus for close combat.

Remove sculpted nid detail
Make more pose-able like the redemptor.
Option to swap SBs for frag launchers.
Steal the plasma arm from the redemptor.
Add a TLAC for riflemen fun?

I’d love to see it, but it’s got to be a real low priority for GW to do.

I always expected the Ballistus to be repackaged to multipart kit with 2 different weapons load outs, just like the initial ETB redemptor.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/m3son4il/new40k-combat-changes-shake-up-fighting-in-the-new-edition/

Time to make with the stabbings.

 Nevelon wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/m3son4il/new40k-combat-changes-shake-up-fighting-in-the-new-edition/

Time to make with the stabbings.

Meeehhhhh its a £45 hardback dataslate still.

Yeesh 11th isn't looking kind to my Tau with all those overruns and stuff

I think I'm missing something in the paragraph where WarCom were talking about ingress moves.

If I can now Deep Strike to 8" away from enemy models, and engagement range is now 2", why would I need to roll a 9" charge? Surely 7" does the trick, at most?

 Dysartes wrote:
I think I'm missing something in the paragraph where WarCom were talking about ingress moves.

If I can now Deep Strike to 8" away from enemy models, and engagement range is now 2", why would I need to roll a 9" charge? Surely 7" does the trick, at most?

Charge distance is now calculated from base to base. Hence why you need to roll a 9" when you are at 8,1" and not a 7".