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SPROING!

That is one pretty model.

Well, that certainly is a nice model!

Mite be the first cool Primaris!

That’s an excellent model, but needs to be rebased. I’m already sketchy on every jump pack model leaping off handy piles of rubble. But kicking up off the dust? No thank you.

Should be an easy fix.

Well since this edition launch was going to have Blood Angels so I was going to get it...but dang now I'm excited to get it!

I love that he has no chapter specific icons.

 Nevelon wrote:
That’s an excellent model, but needs to be rebased. I’m already sketchy on every jump pack model leaping off handy piles of rubble. But kicking up off the dust? No thank you.

Should be an easy fix.

That might point to why the Suppressors are supposedly going to Legends though. They're one of the last units to be released with the curved transparent flying sticks shared by them, Inceptors, Seraphim/Zephyrim and Pteraxii.

Assault Intercessors, Raptors/Warp Talons (and the assorted Marine and Chaos characters), Scourges, Swooping Hawks, Corsair Skyreavers, Shadowsun, Stormboyz, Deffkopta, Sanguinary Guard, Dante, Jump Canoness, etc. all use basing elements for the flying look rather than a stand.

Venetari Custodians were just re-released, switching from the curved stick to scenic elements as well. I'd be unsurprised if Seraphim followed them with the 11th ed. Sisters release.

 Asmodai wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
That’s an excellent model, but needs to be rebased. I’m already sketchy on every jump pack model leaping off handy piles of rubble. But kicking up off the dust? No thank you.

Should be an easy fix.

That might point to why the Suppressors are supposedly going to Legends though. They're one of the last units to be released with the curved transparent flying sticks shared by them, Inceptors, Seraphim/Zephyrim and Pteraxii.

Assault Intercessors, Raptors/Warp Talons (and the assorted Marine and Chaos characters), Scourges, Swooping Hawks, Corsair Skyreavers, Shadowsun, Stormboyz, Deffkopta, Sanguinary Guard, Dante, Jump Canoness, etc. all use basing elements for the flying look rather than a stand.

Venetari Custodians were just re-released, switching from the curved stick to scenic elements as well. I'd be unsurprised if Seraphim followed them with the 11th ed. Sisters release.

Those curved flightstands can go die in a fire. I have SO much hate for them. I rebased my supressors off broken eldar vehicle parts so they could be at the right height. Might do the same here, of find some dead ‘Nid bits that work.

I totally agree that the person that designed those flight stands should have their flesh flayed off and salt poured on their exposed musculature. Man, I hate them.

Suppressors were a unique unit. I'm surprised they, and the ATV, are going the way of the dodo. I mean, the ATV was basically the replacement for the Attack Bike.

 kirotheavenger wrote:

We saw it in Heresy 3.0 - leaks showed large numbers of units getting removed. Huge backlash. GW comes in and says "guys chill, they got Legends, you're good" and suddenly no one was allowed to be upset anymore. [Although without the tournament scene, Legends are a much more normal thing to see in Heresy].

I wasn't upset. They said from the start that there'll be supported Legacy rules and that these are official even in their own tournaments. And they delivered (though maybe the uproar made them put a tad more care in it). And maybe there are tournaments who doesn't allow them, but I haven't seen one yet. While they shared the rules once, both games are now worlds apart in many aspects.

-----


I wonder how long all those Firstborn units will stay in Legends or if the vanish someday. I mean without those rules it'll be impossible to play any game set between Heresy and Primaris founding with Marines.

Firestrike, Suppressors, and the ATV were all massive duds. Far more time has been spent hating on them then playing them and they will not be missed. I get the principle of the thing, but lets not kid ourselves into pretending we care about them now.

The thing is maybe people did. And having their expensive minits squatted in less than 5 years its absurd. GW has become way too brazen about squatting stuff they wouldnt dare to do 15 years ago.

As others said this is not a card game with a standard format. This gak is expensive and you take a ton to build and paint it. What they did with the stormcast range, even if I agree the new one looks cooler (but sacrosant chamber was allready very cool, and they did leave the ugly scout stormcasts), was an aberration. Whole armies of stormcasts banished for no reason in less than 5 years.

 Overread wrote:
GW legended a bunch of 3 year old models in Age of Sigmar for Stormcast - so not even retiring to old world; just straight up wiped them out.

Not quite.
Legends, 40k or AoS, are still legal units - unless you CHOOSE to play in environments that dont allow them.
But thats a choice & is all on you....

Wiping them out means they dont even have rules any more.
For ex:
●AoS - My Rat Swarms & Giant Rats from my Skaven army.
●40k - the original Las/plas turreted Razorbacks

 LunarSol wrote:
Firestrike, Suppressors, and the ATV were all massive duds. Far more time has been spent hating on them then playing them and they will not be missed. I get the principle of the thing, but lets not kid ourselves into pretending we care about them now.

Agreed. Loyalists flying around with Autocannons always was wrong.
I guess the turret was okay, but 40K seems to have problems including any kind of building ever since 8th, despite them releasing quite a lot of them.

 LunarSol wrote:
Firestrike, Suppressors, and the ATV were all massive duds. Far more time has been spent hating on them then playing them and they will not be missed. I get the principle of the thing, but lets not kid ourselves into pretending we care about them now.

The problem with this attitude though is that it makes quality control the customers problem, not GW's. Throw any gak at the wall and see what sticks, if it turns out to be a dud just pull the product and move on - no one who matters will miss it anyway.

If you happened to not perfectly predict which products would last or not, well I guess it sucks to suck.

The Chaplain is decent, but I think he would have been improved considerably if his weapons were switched to the other hands and his crozius arm was outstretched so it looked like he was hitting something with it.

The 'cinematic' smoke around his foot for no reason, but not from any of his jump jets looks weird.

We have Lemartes at home.

The new chaplain looks significantly better than Lemartes, who somehow manages to look like a squatmarine despite being a primaris.

 Insularum wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Firestrike, Suppressors, and the ATV were all massive duds. Far more time has been spent hating on them then playing them and they will not be missed. I get the principle of the thing, but lets not kid ourselves into pretending we care about them now.

The problem with this attitude though is that it makes quality control the customers problem, not GW's. Throw any gak at the wall and see what sticks, if it turns out to be a dud just pull the product and move on - no one who matters will miss it anyway.

If you happened to not perfectly predict which products would last or not, well I guess it sucks to suck.

Quality control is always the customer's problem. The quality of those kits wasn't there and customers rejected them. This is something customers need to do more often.

I'd say that people who bought the Iron Hands combat patrol got finessed; but no finesse is required for GW...

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I'd say that people who bought the Iron Hands combat patrol got finessed; but no finesse is required for GW...

Curious if anyone actually bought it. They didn't even force it by putting in the new character.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Insularum wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Firestrike, Suppressors, and the ATV were all massive duds. Far more time has been spent hating on them then playing them and they will not be missed. I get the principle of the thing, but lets not kid ourselves into pretending we care about them now.

The problem with this attitude though is that it makes quality control the customers problem, not GW's. Throw any gak at the wall and see what sticks, if it turns out to be a dud just pull the product and move on - no one who matters will miss it anyway.

If you happened to not perfectly predict which products would last or not, well I guess it sucks to suck.

Quality control is always the customer's problem. The quality of those kits wasn't there and customers rejected them. This is something customers need to do more often.

Yeah I can see there being an element of truth to that, but on the other hand all of these things get pushed in discount boxes, and there are more examples outside of these latest ones of things that were never rejected by customers receiving the same treatment.

Gravis Calgar sold perfectly well - he's gone. Greater Possessed featured in the Shadowspear set (which sold out fast enough) alongside the Suppressors - they are gone. Sigmarines are probably the best selling range in AOS, they weren't safe either.

I would have less of a strong feeling about this if it wasn't the same story on repeat - they are on sale, they are available, they are playable, until they aren't. There is never any advance warning from GW (only rumours and leaks), so how many players can actually make an informed choice over whether a purchase is worth it or not? Not everything makes it to Legends, and the hit and miss quality of Legends (lack of QC from GW again), is pretty lame given a successful international business that charges so much cannot afford to update some PDF docs from time to time.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Insularum wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Firestrike, Suppressors, and the ATV were all massive duds. Far more time has been spent hating on them then playing them and they will not be missed. I get the principle of the thing, but lets not kid ourselves into pretending we care about them now.

The problem with this attitude though is that it makes quality control the customers problem, not GW's. Throw any gak at the wall and see what sticks, if it turns out to be a dud just pull the product and move on - no one who matters will miss it anyway.

If you happened to not perfectly predict which products would last or not, well I guess it sucks to suck.

Quality control is always the customer's problem. The quality of those kits wasn't there and customers rejected them. This is something customers need to do more often.

And a company selling you a dream needs to back that dream with substance. Effectively if these kits are discontinued and if they are all part of Jon's army... he's now out of £200+ and cant recoup/resell his investment... that does not sound like a dream to me.
Theres something called perception of value and companies hobby based will try to sell you that their stuff is actually a good investment, most of the times hobbies are money drain and companies know they are not essential.
GW by deleting new models at this rate is effectively devaluating their perception of value, because all of a sudden, these minis continuity is random and you may end up stuck with a bunch of new plastic no one wants.
Quality control is not something you leave to your clients either if you have a plan!
Believe me, this volatile burn of new kits will eventually burn people armies and by consequence people engagement.
If the second hand markets show little interest in todays discontinued plastics then that perception of value is gone.

On a better note that Chap tiptoeing the smoke grenade clowd is rather nice.

 Insularum wrote:

Gravis Calgar sold perfectly well - he's gone.

I don't disagree with your overall point, but I wanted to nitpick that there is ZERO reason anyone should be shelving their old Calgar for the new one if they don't want to. Particularly now that they're not even a separate datasheet. This idea that resculpts invalidate the original is such a community thing that really needs to be reigned in. We make this stuff WAY worse for ourselves than needed, particularly since in almost every instance, new players show a ton of respect when they see someone rocking a classic model. There is no reason we should inflict this kind of paint on ourselves.

P.S. As an aide, since the Victrix box builds 2 unique characters, the Sword and Board bros are a great way to fill in for those two if for some reason you don't want to run them, as would any random character model.

P.S.S. Play With Your Toys!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NAVARRO wrote:

Quality control is not something you leave to your clients either if you have a plan!
Believe me, this volatile burn of new kits will eventually burn people armies and by consequence people engagement.
If the second hand markets show little interest in todays discontinued plastics then that perception of value is gone.

Agreed, its a two way street. I buy things I want. GW has to make things I want if they want me to buy them. If GW makes things I don't want, I don't buy them.

GW has and will miss the mark. I much prefer they phase them out after a few editions while continuing to support them via Legends than force people to buy things they don't want to buy by giving them rules that make them meta mandatory.

I, for one, will continue to proudly field my 2nd Edition Commissar Yarrick as the man himself. Only thing I will change will be the base size.

The whole thing just shows how bloated the Marine range (even just the 10 year old Primaris Marine range) is that they can erase 3 units and people not really shedding a tear and be more like: yeah, these were crap to begin with, better take nerfgun marines right with them if you're at it.

Think of it this way: These could have been 3 new Dark Eldar kits instead of Primaris stuff nobody called for.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
The whole thing just shows how bloated the Marine range (even just the 10 year old Primaris Marine range) is that they can erase 3 units and people not really shedding a tear and be more like: yeah, these were crap to begin with, better take nerfgun marines right with them if you're at it.

Think of it this way: These could have been 3 new Dark Eldar kits instead of Primaris stuff nobody called for.

Actually the range "bloat" IIRC was the justification GW used to delete the Stormcast sacrosanct ... only to release another huge chunk of more Stormcasts after...
I think GW is really playing a dangerous game here because I managed to have several WFB armies then tolerated to transition/rebase them to AoS and all that took several decades of being engaged with Fantasy. But after investing in a full army of sacrosanct, the poster boys, just to expand more into Fantasy they pull the plug like that? I tried to put it over my back and forget, but something broke there and I cant see myself going back. I quit Fantasy because all of the setting now reminds me of Sacrosanct and also the ridiculous fiasco of this army goes WFB and the other goes AoS and... Im done with that.

Exact same thing will happen to several dedicated 40k fans if all of the sudden they see their beloved armies butchered or totally moved aside.
Let's face it, how many armies do you have, how many did you built and sold in the past so you could buy another one? The value was always prevalent in the second hand markets... Imagine that now your armies can be discontinued and you cant sell them at a price that will allow you to jump into a new project.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Valrak Rumors:

Going to Legends in 11th: Razorback, ATV, Suppressors, Tactical Marine Squad, Devastators.


Dang it!!!!! This literally kills my Dark Angel army, which is 99% firstborn.

Damn, I am surprised they actually went all the way to squat the Tactical Squad. That thing is one of the best selling kits in GW history, so much so I wasn't sure if even Primaris would manage to steal their thunder enough to make them unprofitable to sell.

But I guess no king rules forever.

Everyone will please not panic, until we’ve more than a rumour.

Yours

Grumbledore.

Yes, I know Valrak has an excellent track record. But there’s still a not unreasonable chance stuff has been misreported or misunderstood.

And yeah, I’m perfectly happy to end up with egg on my face. For I shall make a digital omelette.