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Re:the hateable limited gaming aid - cards. Decided to buy and split the decks with a friend, this ordering from the new GW web store. Oh The Anti-Climax after waiting since June. Queued for 45 minutes, got in 1007, cards etc still in stock, had it all in my basket and then payment crashed, probably site overload. After that I lost my place in the queue, have to start over. Repeated twice over the next 45 minutes. With items dropping out of availability while in basket causing additional problems. What a load of crap their new website is. 🤬
Ordered the starter from an independent dealer with a good track record of getting their allocation instead.
Not a good thing these limited edition gaming aids causing FOMO & scalping - I guess we as a community need to make printable Unit cards to help ease of play especially for the first period until the stats become in memory.
ingtaer wrote: Has anyone come across a review showing the measured size of the new vehicles? Seen infantry and bases but no vehicles yet.
Tales of the painters has a video up that shows some good comparisons to 1997 & original vehicles. They don't measure them but it has some good shots against the new ones.
Here we go:
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/11/18 19:17:29
tauist wrote: I'm quite whelmed after watching Ash's "How to play" video. Seems too swingy for my liking, and infantry moving faster than the range of their guns feels dumb.
tauist wrote: I'm quite whelmed after watching Ash's "How to play" video. Seems too swingy for my liking, and infantry moving faster than the range of their guns feels dumb.
Hmm does that not happen in SM2 and EpicGold too?
I usually play E:A and find it far supperior.
Perhaps it does? Been so long since I last played it.
On the topic of Legions Imperialis, I found a 1500 points batrep video and after watching it, have changed my mind. The game seems decent and I will be jumping onboard, what bothered me with the early videos was the fact the gaming examples used the contents of the starter, which just doesn't work well IMHO - When played with a more "typical" 1500 point army, the swinginess disappears and Epic gameplay of olde returns. I am actually getting hyped to be honest!
I do intend to give Epic: Armageddon a spin with the models as well though, never played it.
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
tauist wrote: I'm quite whelmed after watching Ash's "How to play" video. Seems too swingy for my liking, and infantry moving faster than the range of their guns feels dumb.
Hmm does that not happen in SM2 and EpicGold too?
I usually play E:A and find it far supperior.
Most infantry in SM2 have a 10cm range (20cm on charge) and most guns are 50cm, with assault-type troops at 25cm and heavy.at 75cm. So you usually get at least one turn of shooting in, and you can go on First Fire if you think you are about to be charged to get an extra defensive shot.
I think it looks the same in Legions from what I have seen, and they now also have an 'overwatch' rule which looks like it replicates Snap-fire from Titan Legions - basically allows you to shoot out of sequence while the opposing side is moving. Will really have to watch some games (or eventually play them!) to see if they have got the movement/ranged/melee balance correct.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/18 22:35:24
Pretty happy to see that the Predators & Sicarans come with full dual turrets, so you can build both set weapon variants without fidfling with mini magnets, blu tack or similar. 👍
For anyone not wanting to wait for a battlescribe version, I created a quick LI army builder sheet that calculates points and upgrade costs: Just create a copy of the sheet and fill out the dropdown fields to enter your units (and the additional grey fields for SM)
For Knights and Titans if you want to take more than one detachment of the same kind just overwrite the automatic points, didn't manage to do it better with the time I had
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/19 10:15:08
Yes I am kind of in the same boat Albertorius. I think a lot of the existing epic playing community too, something like the Land Raider not being available from launch just seems a bit to OTT. I expect something like Legion-specific units not being available, but not something that fundamental. So you are now going to have this slow, expansion-lead drip feed and the game won't be 'complete' for some time yet.
I am going to dip my toes in the water, give the new game a play, and it will be great loads of more people will be moving into the epic hobby. But, for the time being it is definitely not a valid replacement for 30k Armageddon, NetEpic, Imperius Dominatus etc.
Matrindur wrote: For anyone not wanting to wait for a battlescribe version, I created a quick LI army builder sheet that calculates points and upgrade costs:
Just create a copy of the sheet and fill out the dropdown fields to enter your units (and the additional grey fields for SM)
For Knights and Titans if you want to take more than one detachment of the same kind just overwrite the automatic points, didn't manage to do it better with the time I had
Excellent - thank you! This is the sort of thing I love about the Epic community
for me its not that the game won't be "complete" for a while, for me the question is how many books will I end up lugging around? and how heavy will they be?
Heresy in 28mm is heavy enough as it is, can see here the army fitting, nicely, into a single 4l Really Useful Box, but having to lug several heavy books about just to play it when whats needed is a smaller summary thats just the stuff you need without the fluffier bits or hard backing
leopard wrote: for me its not that the game won't be "complete" for a while, for me the question is how many books will I end up lugging around? and how heavy will they be?
Heresy in 28mm is heavy enough as it is, can see here the army fitting, nicely, into a single 4l Really Useful Box, but having to lug several heavy books about just to play it when whats needed is a smaller summary thats just the stuff you need without the fluffier bits or hard backing
More than this feels excessive to me
Note: This are small format books xD (about A5). Rulebook is 48 pages, Battle book (scenarios and the like, as well as hobby material) is 112 pages, and the armies book is also 112 pages.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/19 13:32:27
leopard wrote: for me its not that the game won't be "complete" for a while, for me the question is how many books will I end up lugging around? and how heavy will they be?
leopard wrote: for me its not that the game won't be "complete" for a while, for me the question is how many books will I end up lugging around? and how heavy will they be?
None, just bring the cards.
The limited edition cards that took all of 30 minutes to be out of stock, and only have the stuff from the core book.
That said... do we know what's actually in the cards? Only stats, or also rules references and the like?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/19 13:34:20
leopard wrote: for me its not that the game won't be "complete" for a while, for me the question is how many books will I end up lugging around? and how heavy will they be?
Heresy in 28mm is heavy enough as it is, can see here the army fitting, nicely, into a single 4l Really Useful Box, but having to lug several heavy books about just to play it when whats needed is a smaller summary thats just the stuff you need without the fluffier bits or hard backing
More than this feels excessive to me
Note: This are small format books xD (about A5). Rulebook is 48 pages, Battle book (scenarios and the like, as well as hobby material) is 112 pages, and the armies book is also 112 pages.
Nothing more wonderful than seeing those 3 books appear!
If anything, I'm grateful for the new game to having given me a kick up the butt to want to get more stuff finished. I've been tied up with a huge LotR project thats eating into most of my hobby time. But I'm trying to set aside a slot of time every week to do something with the vast collection of unpainted and abandoned epic projects.
The last E40k game I had organised was abandoned due to lockdowns and I've just not motivation to get more done and something re-organised.
Yall grognards still using physical rulebooks to play? How wonderfully anachronistic. I'll take my cards and my dataslate, 128GB of storage covers more than enough rulebooks for all my games
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
So I have been looking through the weapon keywords and special rules and there are a few interesting ones who aren't currently used on any model:
Neutron Flux: No model currently that uses a neutron weapon (Except the Dire Wolf but that one doesn't have this rule), looking at 28mm HH Neutron weapon are used by the Sabre tank, Predator and Sicaran versions, Falchion and the Cerberus Tank, all of which we don't have in LI yet. The first thought would be the Sabre/Falchion/Cerberus as those are completely new but the Neutron Flux is actually also used in HH and only for a single weapon, the Neutron-flux warheads of the Sicaran Arcus. That makes me think we will get that Sicaran version in the future which means they are open to make new versions of already existing models. Which opens up endless possibilities for further model options, for example different Predators/Support Squads/Heavy Weapon Squads
Loyalist/Traitor: The Loyalist keyword is used by the Warlord Sinister Psi Titan but the Traitor keyword isn't actually used for anything yet. And the only thing that would really make sense with that would be characters and Primarchs. As they already kinda teased Primarchs those should be pretty locked in.
Same for the Unique keyword, only really makes sense on characters and Primarchs
Battlesmith is also not used currently, not even for the Iron Hands special rules where I would have expected it. In HH in appears on Techmarines, two Consuls and Iron Hands specific characters/Ferrus Manus. Could be further confirmation for Primarchs with Ferrus Manus, could be a 5 man base of Techmarines or could be a sign that we will get individual models like Consuls or characters.
Other weapon keywords I have no idea where they could be used are Power Capacitor (double dice with first fire order) and Ripple Fire (reroll hits of 1 if order is first fire) For special rules there is Phosphex which is used by the Leviathan in HH but he doesn't have that weapon in LI. There are other Phospex weapons for SM not yet in LI like on Destroyers or on the Arquitor but then again its not a weapon keyword but a unit special rule (Models engaged with unit with this rule gain no positive modifiers on their CAF for being garrisoned) Sounds like something we could see with Mechanicum?
Then there is stuff you can already guess like Attached Deployment which should be the SA Cyclops
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/11/19 14:41:59
tauist wrote: Yall grognards still using physical rulebooks to play? How wonderfully anachronistic. I'll take my cards and my dataslate, 128GB of storage covers more than enough rulebooks for all my games
Yeap. I work remotely in IT and spend most of the day staring at digital documentation and logs. Whilst I have digital copies of almost every game I like, I will buy books & print rulebooks to play games.
I refuse to have a laptop in my gaming room at this point as I have a minimum of one computer in all the other rooms of the house (not counting my phone). The gaming room is a analogue sanctuary to the point I'm still using a 1990s cd player and own a huge collection of audio books/dramas on CD & tape for when I'm on proper painting sessions.
Digital rules for Epic are handy for referencing when I'm on forums etc, but I'd only ever play actual games via books or printouts. I'd not even allow phones for rules/apps at the table these days.
leopard wrote: for me its not that the game won't be "complete" for a while, for me the question is how many books will I end up lugging around? and how heavy will they be?
None, just bring the cards.
the limited edition blink and you missed them cards?
Yeah unfortunately its been clear for a few months that a lot of Core units are missing in the rulebook army lists, most notably LR/Spartans. So its not possible to play an Epic30k game with a typical army using LI rules until the first expansion book comes... Sadly. Such a bad idea to spread core unit rules over several books for many reasons
We will dip our toes and get a feel for LI ruleset using the units that have rules for a few games. If we like it we'll houserule some units until the expansion book, of not we go back to our loved EA30K. And then probably a new try later on when it's more complete.
A good thing is definitely the plastic regardless. And I know some talented 30k painters that will jump on board so I will get to play with some more beautiful armies regardless of ruleset.
Re: physical books, I too work in digital/IT and try to avoid screens at all costs when relaxing and playing. So I really prefer the old school physical paper book for gaming.
Will print some mashup ref cards instead of the GW Unobtainium ones to use as gaming aids.
tauist wrote: Yall grognards still using physical rulebooks to play? How wonderfully anachronistic. I'll take my cards and my dataslate, 128GB of storage covers more than enough rulebooks for all my games
Yeap. I work remotely in IT and spend most of the day staring at digital documentation and logs. Whilst I have digital copies of almost every game I like, I will buy books & print rulebooks to play games.
I refuse to have a laptop in my gaming room at this point as I have a minimum of one computer in all the other rooms of the house (not counting my phone). The gaming room is a analogue sanctuary to the point I'm still using a 1990s cd player and own a huge collection of audio books/dramas on CD & tape for when I'm on proper painting sessions.
Digital rules for Epic are handy for referencing when I'm on forums etc, but I'd only ever play actual games via books or printouts. I'd not even allow phones for rules/apps at the table these days.
Funny thing. I work with analog machinery at my day job, and when I get home, I dont want to deal with anything analog if a more convenient digital solution exists. I suppose you could say our outlooks are at polar opposites to each other
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
I have heard similar comments from a gynaecologist
Does anyone know what the exact rules are for base sizes? I know the Warcomms article said Legions will be base agnostic, I was hoping to base the Auxiliaries on square bases (which I think suits horde forces a bit better than round as you can rank them up) but not sure if it will be 20 X 20mm or 25 X 25mm
Base agnostic means agnostic, and likely size won't be covered in rules. Square base size certainly won't be regulated either way.
I.e. pick any base size and be a d*ck about it, as internet humour would put it.
There will be advantages and disadvantages with bigger or smaller, e.g how many bases can fit in base contact (smaller is better for you) vs under a flame template (bigger is better for you). Presumably only the Warhound Inferno cannon uses a template anyway, and likely some artillery later on. So choose what you like the look of.
I do 30mm round for 6mm, don't like the crowded look so might do bigger than the 25mm ones supplied.
westiebestie wrote: Yeah unfortunately its been clear for a few months that a lot of Core units are missing in the rulebook army lists, most notably LR/Spartans. So its not possible to play an Epic30k game with a typical army using LI rules until the first expansion book comes... Sadly. Such a bad idea to spread core unit rules over several books for many reasons
Actually, for most notably... is there any artillery unit in the core? Because now I think about it, I'm not sure there is.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tauist wrote: Yall grognards still using physical rulebooks to play? How wonderfully anachronistic. I'll take my cards and my dataslate, 128GB of storage covers more than enough rulebooks for all my games
No artillery rules is pretty mad. Does that mean the rules themselves are not included (for the mechanic) or just the units themselves don't yet have rules?
westiebestie wrote: Base agnostic means agnostic, and likely size won't be covered in rules. Square base size certainly won't be regulated either way.
I.e. pick any base size and be a d*ck about it, as internet humour would put it.
There will be advantages and disadvantages with bigger or smaller, e.g how many bases can fit in base contact (smaller is better for you) vs under a flame template (bigger is better for you). Presumably only the Warhound Inferno cannon uses a template anyway, and likely some artillery later on. So choose what you like the look of.
I do 30mm round for 6mm, don't like the crowded look so might do bigger than the 25mm ones supplied.
There is a precedent though.. I think Armageddon had rules for total base size?
Epic 40k + INQ6 Project Log 
INQ28/Necromunda/Inquisimunda Log 
