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Trust thermocline. Hobbyists are in…until they are not. And when they go, they go for good. Dangerous game playing chicken with your customers.

dienekes96 wrote:
And when they go, they go for good.

This isn't true from my observation. A whole lot of people dip in and out over time as their interests wax and wane.

So, some of the highest increases both percentually and in absolute numbers on the Old World sets. GW sure tries to hit all the nostalgia boxes in this project. Welcome back dedicated WHFB fans, welcome back indeed...

If I think something represents good value, I will buy it from GW. Some of the Combat Patrols, when sold with additional discount, are in that zone if I want everything that's in the box. Same with some of the christmas boxes from time to time (though the FOMO nature of them is offputting).

But buying regular boxes from them is a thing of the past for me, and buying books or single characters has not been part of my hobby for at least ten years. The prices on characters are totally crazy.

It's fine though, it's been a great thing to realise there are all these other manufacturers making cool stuff at reasonable prices and sort of branch out.

But yeah, I'm not "done" with GW, I pay attention to their releases and if something is worth the price to me, I pick it up every now and then. Definitely different to 15 years ago when I was pretty much a GW and Privateer Press player and that was it.

 Hanskrampf wrote:
Prices old and new in Euros, it's just the stuff above 5%

Spoiler:

Thanks for sharing!

Pretty big on those new TOW prices. I think GW got some good will for the more reasonably priced kits there recently. Apparently they want to flush that down the toilet already. Not a good sign for future TOW releases and the games health in general, not a good sign at all.

Also: do Combat Patrols and Spearheads "only" get increases below 5%, or are they not on the list at all?

I guess TOW is selling better than expected and therefore GW sees the chance to make more money by adjusting the prices

 Albertorius wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Between 10% and 5% on some existing kits then...

Again, this not a surprise and it was never stated this wouldn't happen.

It just was communicated in the most misleading way they could think of, as always

What's misleading about:

The price changes for individual products will vary, but in most countries the average change will be between 3% and 5%.

They openly tell you some products will be more, some will be less, it'll vary from country to country but the average is 3%-5%.

The level of shady GW can perform is only matched by the lack of reading comprehension and critical thought by some.

Well, writing about average is the same as giving no number at all

It is not about understanding but this can mean the prices increase from 2-6% or 1-100%.

Hence while stores give the total numbers and various FLGS reported an increase from 2-14% depending on the items, and not "on average it is below inflation"

 kodos wrote:
Well, writing about average is the same as giving no number at all

It is not about understanding but this can mean the prices increase from 2-6% or 1-100%.

Hence while stores give the total numbers and various FLGS reported an increase from 2-14% depending on the items, and not "on average it is below inflation"

Not really, it's an indication of the amount extra the hobby will cost over various ranges. Some impacted more than others.

You are correct of course that they could put up a dozen items 500% and leave the rest and get to 3% average, but they still haven't been misleading even if you don't like the language.

Dudeface wrote:

What's misleading about:

The price changes for individual products will vary, but in most countries the average change will be between 3% and 5%.

They openly tell you some products will be more, some will be less, it'll vary from country to country but the average is 3%-5%.

The level of shady GW can perform is only matched by the lack of reading comprehension and critical thought by some.

I dunno. Maybe they used the median. And if paints are going up between 3-5% and everything box set or books by far more, the average will still be 3-5% as the paints list is probably far longer. I'd been thinking more and more about re-starting TOW. But seeing the prices go up by 10% for some ancient models... I'm not bothering.

the amount of extra for "the hobby" is not indicated by an average over all GW ranges
except your "hobby" is buying everything GW releases

the average increase tells you nothing about how much more it will cost to play TOW, 40k, AoS, MESBG, Necromunda, BloodBowl, or Warcry

we can argue if this is shady or "normal" but giving an average increase is pointless

Would be similar of Asmodee releases an average increase of 1% on all items, where Star Wars Legion goes up 200% while the boardgames decrease in price to balance that out, so your average "hobby" spending is 1% more
People would rage about that as being shady and not telling the truth hence no other company is doing it that way

 kodos wrote:
People would rage about that as being shady and not telling the truth hence no other company is doing it that way

GW isn't doing it either.

 kodos wrote:

Would be similar of Asmodee releases an average increase of 1% on all items, where Star Wars Legion goes up 200% while the boardgames decrease in price to balance that out, so your average "hobby" spending is 1% more
People would rage about that as being shady and not telling the truth hence no other company is doing it that way

Isn't this literally how inflation is "calculated"? Oops food went up 100% in 3 years, better slash the price of Rolls Royce and 30m yachts so we can say inflation was 3%

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 kodos wrote:

Would be similar of Asmodee releases an average increase of 1% on all items, where Star Wars Legion goes up 200% while the boardgames decrease in price to balance that out, so your average "hobby" spending is 1% more
People would rage about that as being shady and not telling the truth hence no other company is doing it that way

Isn't this literally how inflation is "calculated"? Oops food went up 100% in 3 years, better slash the price of Rolls Royce and 30m yachts so we can say inflation was 3%

yes and no, inflation takes some specific items and calculate the mean so there are different numbers depending on the items used and not all countries use all numbers

also they "trick" a little by adjusting for technology, like of something is 10% better than last years item but 5% more expensive it gets a negative value, which was a reason for the inflation peak during the GPU price increase because that correction mechanic reversed

hence why unions often use a different inflation (based on everyday items) than companies (who include said yachts)

Slightly frustrating that they stated in the article this wouldn't affect paints but that doesn't seem to apply to spray cans.

I am moving over to Colour Forge for most of my spray cans but will need to stock up on a couple of Citadel ones before June as the GW cans are already expensive but I am half way through a couple of projects.

This is more that the article was (slightly) misleading than the rise itself.

 TheSecretSquig wrote:

The Legion Imperialis has gone down well at my local Club with around 8 players. 1 person has bought a rule book, everyone else has 'found' a pdf. 2 of us are using our old Epic Armageddon armies, 6 clubbed in and bought a Printer, they've all Printed their own armies. Put them next to a GW army, you wouldn't know the difference. This is the issue GW need to combat and be aware of. The Pricing on the Legion stuff is obscene. So obscene it makes no sense to buy one, when for a fraction you can buy a Printer and print your own. This option is going to become more and more as GW raise their prices, and cost and availability of printers is better.

Honestly I find this an odd way of doing things because the plastic kits are by far the strongest part of the official Epic relaunch. Personally I'm doing it the other way around; getting some of the modern kits (except drop pods) and 'finding' copies of the supplements.
If I was taking your approach I would just be playing Net Epic or E:A instead, as those rules have had far more community attention to maintain them while LI could really use a proper FAQ.

 kodos wrote:
the amount of extra for "the hobby" is not indicated by an average over all GW ranges
except your "hobby" is buying everything GW releases

the average increase tells you nothing about how much more it will cost to play TOW, 40k, AoS, MESBG, Necromunda, BloodBowl, or Warcry

we can argue if this is shady or "normal" but giving an average increase is pointless

Would be similar of Asmodee releases an average increase of 1% on all items, where Star Wars Legion goes up 200% while the boardgames decrease in price to balance that out, so your average "hobby" spending is 1% more
People would rage about that as being shady and not telling the truth hence no other company is doing it that way

Well excuse me for assuming that in a thread about GW pricing it was relevant to people buying GW products.

It tells me on average it'll be 3-5% more expensive to purchase, not play, TOW, 40k, AoS, MESBG, Necromunda, BloodBowl, or Warcry.

Well, excuse me of assuming that in a topic about GW pricing that using a number that is meaningless for the average GW customer should be pointed out and corrected and numbers that give more information should be used
But yeah, good to know for people who buying the synthetic layer brush that is 10% more that on average it is just 3-5%

it is basically the same when unions complain that the living prices increased by 100% but someone telling them that on average it is just 10%, people just need to buy a new car every year to level it out


saying prices increase from 0-14% depending on the item is much more informative and telling than an average of 3-5%

 kodos wrote:
Well, excuse me of assuming that in a topic about GW pricing that using a number that is meaningless for the average GW customer should be pointed out and corrected and numbers that give more information should be used
But yeah, good to know for people who buying the synthetic layer brush that is 10% more that on average it is just 3-5%

it is basically the same when unions complain that the living prices increased by 100% but someone telling them that on average it is just 10%, people just need to buy a new car every year to level it out


saying prices increase from 0-14% depending on the item is much more informative and telling than an average of 3-5%

14% isn't applicable to all countries, that's an outright lie and therefore of less use to me than an average. It also doesn't tell me if I should expect 14% to be the majority or not.

neither is 2-5% average as this also does not tell you if you should expect 5% the be the majority
and how is 0-14% a lie?

 kodos wrote:
neither is 2-5% average as this also does not tell you if you should expect 5% the be the majority
and how is 0-14% a lie?

Go back a page, the highest amount increasing in the EU is seemingly 11.5%, not 14. Average being 2-5% tells me the majority will be in 2-5%, anything that is between 2% and 5% increase is expected and not a surprise, you instead look for outliers as they should be the minority.

sorry, I missed that we are talking exclusively about Euro numbers, you know EU does also include non Euro countries and they see larger increases

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Yay, let's do a 10% rise on the 30year old kits we just rereleased!

....

Wow.

Dudeface wrote:
What's misleading about:

The price changes for individual products will vary, but in most countries the average change will be between 3% and 5%.

They openly tell you some products will be more, some will be less, it'll vary from country to country but the average is 3%-5%.

The level of shady GW can perform is only matched by the lack of reading comprehension and critical thought by some.

Just about everything, exactly because they decided to communicate it like that, because that's exactly how the law of averages work. Same reason it's used to calculate average wages.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 kodos wrote:

Would be similar of Asmodee releases an average increase of 1% on all items, where Star Wars Legion goes up 200% while the boardgames decrease in price to balance that out, so your average "hobby" spending is 1% more
People would rage about that as being shady and not telling the truth hence no other company is doing it that way

Isn't this literally how inflation is "calculated"? Oops food went up 100% in 3 years, better slash the price of Rolls Royce and 30m yachts so we can say inflation was 3%

Yes, it's exactly the same, and it's exactly as scummy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:
14% isn't applicable to all countries, that's an outright lie and therefore of less use to me than an average. It also doesn't tell me if I should expect 14% to be the majority or not.

If that's an outright lie because it's not applicable in all countries, GW's initial statement is equally as much of a lie.

Dudeface wrote:


It tells me on average it'll be 3-5% more expensive to purchase, not play, TOW, 40k, AoS, MESBG, Necromunda, BloodBowl, or Warcry.

But this isn't true. From what folks have said, apparently it's more like 10% more expensive to purchase TOW. That's the problem. If they are going to throw out a number, if should be broadly representative. If it's not, they should give additional caveats, like what they did for the Nordics, or for paint being unaffected by the price increases.

In general, I understand the need to raise prices. But, as per usual, GW's communication is lacking.

 Albertorius wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
What's misleading about:

The price changes for individual products will vary, but in most countries the average change will be between 3% and 5%.

They openly tell you some products will be more, some will be less, it'll vary from country to country but the average is 3%-5%.

The level of shady GW can perform is only matched by the lack of reading comprehension and critical thought by some.

Just about everything, exactly because they decided to communicate it like that, because that's exactly how the law of averages work. Same reason it's used to calculate average wages.

Yes, the law of averages is a blief lead statement where as the actual average is an objective quantifiable amount. Objectively it seems the mean average is 3-5%, which once you apply law of averages means you believe that some will be 0 and some will be higher.

Which, again, tell me how this contradicts GW in any way?

Dudeface wrote:
14% isn't applicable to all countries, that's an outright lie and therefore of less use to me than an average. It also doesn't tell me if I should expect 14% to be the majority or not.

If that's an outright lie because it's not applicable in all countries, GW's initial statement is equally as much of a lie.

This is tiring. They said it explicity is as high in some countries via exemption at the bottom. They also state:

but in most countries the average change will be between 3% and 5%.

Like I say, people struggling to apply common sense to a clear message to be angry about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


It tells me on average it'll be 3-5% more expensive to purchase, not play, TOW, 40k, AoS, MESBG, Necromunda, BloodBowl, or Warcry.

But this isn't true. From what folks have said, apparently it's more like 10% more expensive to purchase TOW. That's the problem. If they are going to throw out a number, if should be broadly representative. If it's not, they should give additional caveats, like what they did for the Nordics, or for paint being unaffected by the price increases.

In general, I understand the need to raise prices. But, as per usual, GW's communication is lacking.

So you want an average per game system? Well what if one army is up by more than another skewing individual armies? So we then do it by army right? Or we just accept as stated on average their collective product ranges are up 3-5%.

Old world seems ro have a fair few over 5%, there's also plenty that aren't seemingly.

I really wish more press releases included the Mean along with the Average. It is so easy to "lie" with Averages when the Mean gives much better insight. To pull up an old joke:

49 people are in a bar when Bill Gates walks in. One guy turns to the next and says, "We are all rich. The average net worth in this bar is 1 Billion Dollars."

I was pretty happy with the prices when the greenskins came out, I won't say I was defending them as they are not cheap but I found them to be reasonable (for GW).

€50 for a box of goblin wolf riders didn't feel too bad, not since you get a lot a left overs, a good mix of parts to build a nice unit and with some clever modelling (ie get some Oyumaru) you just need to make some goblin chest pieces and a unit filler or two and you have enough bits for a unit of hill goblins as well. (same with the hill goblin units, make some more chest pieces, get some oathmark wolves and after making your foot units you can bulk out your wolf riders with all the left over bits and the spare rider legs)

But a 10-11% price rise on all the TOW stuff is steep. 11% on plastic chariots is insane. Its now cheaper to buy metal chariots than plastics. Only two orc chariots for almost €70. That's almost the cost of the whole battalion at my FLGS now.

I think it would have been less noticeable if most of these kits hadn't only just been released, many of which have only just arrived in the last week or two to most people.

A price rise isn't likely to push me out of collecting completely, but it will push me to not minding spending more on finishing off my dogs of war collection and not buying anything direct. I'm not really to bothered about supporting TOW directly, worst case they 'end times' it and people sell their collections of cheap again, best case we won't see a price drop but we see some better bundle deals if sales dip.

Any info on the GBP price changes yet?

Xirix wrote:
Any info on the GBP price changes yet?

they're going up.