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1. I really don’t like the current ghaz model. If orks get bigger the more they fight and the more followers they have, I feel ghaz himself should be massive, maybe even something like a proto-krork, rather than his armor making him big.

2. Either we need more mega armored units, or mega nobz need more options. A mega tankbustas, mega lootas, and a mega Skorcha boyz would be nice.

we probably need a plastic tankbustas kit before we get a variant

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
we probably need a plastic tankbustas kit before we get a variant

we could get both

It's technically not just his armour, when he got beheaded by Ragnar, Grotsnik attached his head to a custom made Ork body that's implied to be basically a frankenstein's monster of Ork body parts and cybernetics sown together. I'm also not a huge of that personally versus Ghazzy just growing to that size, but it's clear that it's not just his armour that is bulky.

I definitely agree with more MA variants though. It seems like a big waste of not having a proppa shooty variant that allows them to use their armour as a stable shooting platform (ideally dual wielding the guns they're using). Nobz using range has been heavily underutilized given that Kombi weapons have been gutted and Flash Gitz have lost Badrukk.

Fully disagree on point one. Ghaz is already ludicrously huge. Building sized orks is dumb, nearly as dumb as giant sized primarchs.

More mega armour? Why not. No problem there.

Ghaz is huge. His armor isn't adding much to his size. You can see his limbs through the gaps and they're enormous.

As previously stated they're not his limbs, he was rebuilt after basically being only a head.

Jaxmeister wrote:
As previously stated they're not his limbs, he was rebuilt after basically being only a head.

We can get all Ship of Theseus on this, but the point is, its not just the armor that makes him so big either. There's very much a giant frankenork in there.

Yeah I agree considering how many followers he has he would deffo be near krork territory

 Da Boss wrote:
Fully disagree on point one. Ghaz is already ludicrously huge. Building sized orks is dumb, nearly as dumb as giant sized primarchs.

More mega armour? Why not. No problem there.

This^^^^^^


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jinxer wrote:
Yeah I agree considering how many followers he has he would deffo be near krork territory

Not this ^^^^ it’s just silly.

What does 'near krork territory' mean? Were the krork all giants? Krork was the name for the Orks in 3e codex necrons. The retconning that ij the awful War of the Beast series would be my first example of why it's fine to ignore black library books.

That's not what happened in War of the Beast. Orks and Krorks have never been confirmed as the same species.

The Orks being left alone for years allowed them to essentially follow their evolutionary path without outside interference, resulting in bigger, tougher, and smarter Orks.
The number of Oddboyz increases as the population of Orks grows and the Orks during the War of the Beast were at one of, if not their peak population leading to huge numbers of Wierdboyz, Meks, and Doks which in turn led to greater advancements in technology and culture.

That's always been the case with Orks that when the population increases they get more organised, more advanced, and stronger. The only difference was that this time they advanced enough for the leadership castes to be able to look at strategy on the galactic scale resulting in the ultimatum to mankind to surrender and be enslaved, or be destroyed.


Also, Krorks were rumoured to be 12 meters tall, which is ludicrous but unsurprising given GW writer's poor understanding of basic numbers.

There was an ork warboss the size of a hab block who spoke 'properly' supposedly denoting intelligence. I hate that. Orks are already intelligent, just focused on different things to humans. And I hate the trope of 'RP=smart' 'accent=dumb'.

Let's get one thing clear, as a rule, Orks are not intelligent.

Oddboys like Meks and Docs alongside those Orks who have lived longer and have had more experience yes but it's always been the case that Orks are pretty dumb.
The smartest Orks in a social group are called Oddboys because they do things like invent or know about science (sort of).

There's nothing wrong with having Orks be underestimated by non-Orks because the non-Orks think they're stupid but pretending the entire race are actually secret geniuses is laughable when books written from Ork POVs show the complete opposite.

I said intelligent, not geniuses. And I don't care much about what is in Black Library novels given their average quality.

Orks are about as smart as an average human but focused on totally different things, so they might appear stupid to a human with different values and needs. Meks are much smarter than most humans. Most oddboyz are not that much smarter than the average ork, just interested in weird stuff.

Also, am I right or wrong that the War of the Beast involved giant sized orks that got smarter as they got bigger?

 Da Boss wrote:
I said intelligent, not geniuses. And I don't care much about what is in Black Library novels given their average quality.

Orks are about as smart as an average human but focused on totally different things, so they might appear stupid to a human with different values and needs. Meks are much smarter than most humans. Most oddboyz are not that much smarter than the average ork, just interested in weird stuff.

Also, am I right or wrong that the War of the Beast involved giant sized orks that got smarter as they got bigger?

Hard to say, it wasn't clear if they were smarter, it just seems like they got more organized almost as if in parody of the legions that had conquered Ullanor (another thing I personally don't like from the series, implying the modern klan structure was somehow inspired or influenced by marines) with Prime-Orks aping Primarchs. The main thing from the Ork ambassador sent to Terra was just the fact that it spoke fluent Gothic and even made an overture for surrender from the Imperium at all that shocked the Senate and the High Lords. This isn't a great indicator of higher intelligence given that Nazdreg can speak fluent Gothic and he's nowhere near the size of a Prime Ork.

But I agree with Da Boss, Orks are definitely intelligent as a species, otherwise they wouldn't be the threat they are now to so many races across the galaxy.

I think people are having a misunderstanding based on the word intelligent.

It seems one person is taking the term in context of humans speaking about other humans. Like my fiancé is intelligent, because she’s blowing other smart people in her phd program out of the water.

While others are using in the general context of other species, such as dolphins are intelligent, chimps are intelligent, velociraptors were believed to be intelligent. Or at the very least some where between those two contexts.

As has been said before, by certain standards the typical human is pretty fething dumb, and it does seem like orks are at least in the general ballpark of the typical human. Tbh the impoverished city I live in, I’d estimate most of the people I see on a daily basis are really no better than a 40K ork boy.
Edit
I think a better distinction to make would be intelligent but primitive by comparison from a modern western paradigm. Similar to how Europeans thought native Americans and Africans were primitive despite having their own advanced cultures, they just had different motivations and intentions…I mean hell the Spaniards found an entire city built on a lake but those people were primitive to them…for reasons.
/edit


As for the claim the beast was 12m tall and ‘the size of a hab block’ sounds to me either like the author was trying to imply a bit of exaggeration, or it was an author used to the imperial system of measurement really screwing up the metric system, and they meant something more like 12-15ft which my dumb imperial brain estimates would be roughly 4-5 meters tall, so I wouldn’t take the book’s description as literal gospel fact.

That also is something that BL/GW has kinda said isn’t it? Haven’t they canonized the ‘unreliable narrator’ trope for the novels to give a lot of leeway and allow people to disregard things that strongly clash with their established headcanon?

But as far as ghaz I would expect him to naturally be about 9-11ft tall without his armor, but based on the size of the head on the model, it seems like he’s physically not much bigger than your typical warboss.

 Da Boss wrote:
Also, am I right or wrong that the War of the Beast involved giant sized orks that got smarter as they got bigger?

They were smart because they had the freedom to live longer, the longer an Ork lives the bigger and smarter they get. So yes the big Orks were smart but not because they were big.

 Gert wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Also, am I right or wrong that the War of the Beast involved giant sized orks that got smarter as they got bigger?

They were smart because they had the freedom to live longer, the longer an Ork lives the bigger and smarter they get. So yes the big Orks were smart but not because they were big.

My interpretation was they were smarter because there were lots of them, connected through and empowered by their waaagh-energy all over the galaxy.

 Gert wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Also, am I right or wrong that the War of the Beast involved giant sized orks that got smarter as they got bigger?

They were smart because they had the freedom to live longer, the longer an Ork lives the bigger and smarter they get. So yes the big Orks were smart but not because they were big.

The longer they live the bigger and smarter they get…I mean sounds like they got smart because they lived long enough to get big.

On a related note anyone know the life expectancy of a typical ork, and the life expectancy of a typical warboss?

johnpjones1775 wrote:

 Gert wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Also, am I right or wrong that the War of the Beast involved giant sized orks that got smarter as they got bigger?

They were smart because they had the freedom to live longer, the longer an Ork lives the bigger and smarter they get. So yes the big Orks were smart but not because they were big.

The longer they live the bigger and smarter they get…I mean sounds like they got smart because they lived long enough to get big.

On a related note anyone know the life expectancy of a typical ork, and the life expectancy of a typical warboss?

If you ask if there's a natural life expectancy I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Even older Codizes state that Orks just continue to grow and usually die by fighting. Also, a warboss is an Ork.

I think the life expectancy of orks is probably fairly similar in pattern to the Imperial Guard- most boyz and new guard recruits die quickly, with a hard core of veterans/skarboyz surviving battle after battle and holding the force together.

Nobz and Warbosses have been shown to live through decades of combat if they are hard enough. Waaagh! Garaghak has been going for about 70 years, Waaagh! Ghazghkull for about 50. Waaagh! Grax lasted 75 years.

It’s not the number of Boyz that influence a Boss’ size, it’s the number of fights they win. And, like human muscle mass, the growth requires stressing in the first place.

A Boy getting into a close run scrap with a Beakie and surviving is going to bulk up, because it was a close run thing. But a Warboss who eats Beakies for Breakfast? Much less so, if it all - because it’s barely a work out. And so I ask, where is the mighty Ghaz to find such a worthy opponent? Because right now, for a proper work out? We’re talking Primarchs, Abaddon, C’Tan, Greater Daemons. All rare if not singular creatures.

You know wot Orks needs? Lungburstas, Spleenrippas, Gobsmashas etc. At least some of their old battle tanks returned.