Old get started lineups so much more expensive now especially in phys stores.

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**Leopold Helveine**

So back when we had Get started collectives there were some really nice boxes out, one being my fave ; the Get started craftworlds with the warwalker (30) wraithlord (50), 5 wraithguard (50) and a farseer(25).
Total: 155 value'

Now the combat patrol box is windriders, 6 (50 per 3, so 100' someone kill me) of them which granted are very expensive per anyway but are hell to paint.
10 guardians(50)(why???) a farseer(25) and a wraithlord (50).
Total: 225 value'

One should think oh but the combat patrol box is more value for your money, especially when you buy it -online- for 110 or sometimes 100 euros..
Now when you go to a phys store suddenly that price bumbs up to 140 euros..
And here's the issue.. when you actually want -wraith construct armies- instead of the warblgarbl that is the combat patrol box with its themeless spread out blob lineup, you better take a shovel to your wallet;

The best price I could find for the get started box (no longer in stock ofcourse) is 63 euros.
But buy a warwalker, wraithlord, 5 wraithguard and a farseer on their own now and it will cost you that whopping 155 (+taxes probably in stores) euros..

Why did this perfectly fine lineup get discontinued? Why can we not have both?.. :/
It's like GW hates wraith constructs, while they are way cooler than windriders having static builds with the added frustration of having to paint some of their parts before glueing them.. Sigh.

Thoughts.

**Slipspace**

It's just basic business. Either the old Wraith-construct box didn't sell well enough to continue or, more likely, GW decided to change it so customers who bought the old box might now been enticed to get the new one. GW also have a habit of dumping unwanted, poorly-selling sprues into their army boxes or combat patrols.

Every army has multiple archetypes that you can build. That doesn't mean you'll get a box set for each of those archetypes. Sometimes you're lucky and GW sells exactly what you want in one box for a nice discount. Sometimes none of the discounted boxes have things you want. Usually it's somewhere in the middle.

**Nevelon**

GW has always rotated them. Avoid saturation, keep things fresh. Like all the box deals, nice if it has what you need, but less so if some units are bundles you don’t care about.

I picked up two of the one with the WG while they were out. And one each of the ones before that. Good deals.

I was mildly tempted by the current one, but just too much duplication with my collection at this point.

**Leopold Helveine**

Nevelon wrote:
GW has always rotated them. Avoid saturation, keep things fresh. Like all the box deals, nice if it has what you need, but less so if some units are bundles you don’t care about.

I picked up two of the one with the WG while they were out. And one each of the ones before that. Good deals.

I was mildly tempted by the current one, but just too much duplication with my collection at this point.

Yeah same, really not interested in more bikes, I already got plenty of those

So frustrating I can no longer order the wraithbox, did order a standalone wraithlord a few days ago though but man those are expensoid.

**IslaPerry**

Leopold Helveine wrote:
So back when we had Get started collectives there were some really nice boxes out, one being my fave ; the Get started craftworlds with the warwalker (30) wraithlord (50), 5 wraithguard (50) and a farseer(25).
Total: 155 value'

Now the combat patrol box is windriders, 6 (50 per 3, so 100' someone kill me) of them which granted are very expensive per anyway but are hell to paint.
10 guardians(50)(why???) a farseer(25) and a wraithlord (50).
Total: 225 value'

One should think oh but the combat patrol box is more value for your money, especially when you buy it -online- for 110 or sometimes 100 euros..
Now when you go to a phys store suddenly that price bumbs up to 140 euros..
And here's the issue.. when you actually want -wraith construct armies- instead of the warblgarbl that is the combat patrol box with its themeless spread out blob lineup, you better take a shovel to your wallet;
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The best price I could find for the get started box (no longer in stock ofcourse) is 63 euros.
But buy a warwalker, wraithlord, 5 wraithguard and a farseer on their own now and it will cost you that whopping 155 (+taxes probably in stores) euros..

Why did this perfectly fine lineup get discontinued? Why can we not have both?.. :/
It's like GW hates wraith constructs, while they are way cooler than windriders having static builds with the added frustration of having to paint some of their parts before glueing them.. Sigh.

Thoughts.

You are right, I agree with you.

**Da Boss**

The old Start Collecting were much more approachable, it was more likely you would be interested in everything in the box. I bought loads of them. By contrast I have bought only 2 combat patrols and cannot see myself buying more.

**Gert**

I don't agree that SC was more approachable than Combat Patrol in terms of army building.
Some of the SC boxes were utterly random in terms of unit composition.
Tyranids and Craftworlds were not units I would say should be a start to an army, which was part of the problem because they came with a Formation when they first came out so you could use them with no issue.
Combat Patrol is more equal across the board IMO in terms of what you get out of a box with a good spread of troops and heavier hitters.

In terms of cost? Absolutely SC was better but then that's the problem with a massively successful product, if it sells well then the price goes up.

**Nevelon**

A lot of the “start collecting” were more expansion packs for an exisiting army.

Keeping on the Eldar theme, the SC set that was a fire prism, 3 bikes, and a jetseer would be an absolutely horrible place to start an army, but a great addition to one…

**Da Boss**

The price was a huge part of keeping them approachable imo, it feels better to spend sub 100 euro on a discount box than over 100 euro, it feels like a much smaller purchase.

**ProfSrlojohn**

Da Boss wrote:
The price was a huge part of keeping them approachable imo, it feels better to spend sub 100 euro on a discount box than over 100 euro, it feels like a much smaller purchase.

I believe the term is "Barrier to Entry". While yes, many of the CPs, at least when they debuted, were a better overall deal than most Start Collecting boxes, spending 95~$ on a SC is a much easier purchase than 160+$ for a Start Collecting box. let alone the prices we're at now. I looked at the Seraphon spearhead the other day, 173$, which is really hard for me to justify at one time.

**Sunno**

ProfSrlojohn wrote:
Da Boss wrote:
The price was a huge part of keeping them approachable imo, it feels better to spend sub 100 euro on a discount box than over 100 euro, it feels like a much smaller purchase.

I believe the term is "Barrier to Entry". While yes, many of the CPs, at least when they debuted, were a better overall deal than most Start Collecting boxes, spending 95~$ on a SC is a much easier purchase than 160+$ for a Start Collecting box. let alone the prices we're at now. I looked at the Seraphon spearhead the other day, 173$, which is really hard for me to justify at one time.

Is it a barrier to entry given the demographic GW's is targeting? Genuine question. Warhammer (and mini gaming at large) is no longer the hobby that little Timmy or Sarah can go into a GW with their £5 pocket money from mum and dad and buy a box of 5 Space marines or a blister pack. Its entirely beyond the reach of young peoples pocket money.

"back in the day image"

GW targeted demographic is probably young adults and geeky professionals who have disposable income OR kids with bank of mum and dad who would be happy to drop £160 on a bday present of a battle force.

160+$ for a Start Collecting box is by design.

**Nevelon**

The lack of blister packs and small boxes does make it hard to start. Nothing is “pocket money” these days.

Just as a reminder, that inflation is a thing. $20 in the mid 90’s is like $40 today. Counterpoint, GW’s prices have gone up higher then inflation. I was a little shocked to find out what my Ex was paying my son in an allowance, but then I did the inflation math. My brain is stuck with 90’s dollars, so what seemed outlandish was actually reasonable if we consider buying power.

Those little boxes were great for filling out armies. Undead were particularly nice, as they were multipose as opposed to the monos most armies got.

Combat patrols/spearheads feel more like buying a whole army at once. I know some people work that way, but I generally don’t. Especially way back when I was starting out on a tight budget.

**Tyel**

Pocket money seems to vary massively so I think its hard to measure. If you are only getting £5 a week (or less) in 2024 then yeah, a box of mini's is looking kind of unreachable. But if you are getting £10 or more a week not so much.

FWIW I preferred the Start Collecting because - especially with the old 25% off FLGS discount they were so cheap. You could sort of fire and forget. If it ended up in the pile of shame when the desire for a new army collapsed it wasn't the end of the world. By contrast £80 (after discounts etc) is too much to shrug off/spend on a whim.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

If you’re getting £5 a week in 2024 you’ll struggle to buy pretty much anything.

The sodding Beano is £3.25 per issue these days. https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/beano?istCompanyId=1e096408-041f-4238-994e-a7cf46bf9413&istFeedId=689af7a8-5842-4d88-be59-1ee5688a81b5&istItemId=imtrqliiq&istBid=t&&cmpid=cpc&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=20291373287&utm_content=shopping&utm_term=%257Bsku%257D&utm_custom1=&utm_custom2=759-449-0952&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD17J_DndDm5M0czY_G8Z2y-lHjZC&gclid=CjwKCAjwmaO4BhAhEiwA5p4YL9onqEoomH0lV9p0D4XMNqHm3pR0wmBYjGUK_Kqg39svhG3JlYqMVhoCfIQQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Thinking back to my early days? I couldn’t afford sod all back in the early to mid 90’s, until I got a paper round and started doing Saturday jobs. And even then it was odds and ends, rather than Whatever I Wanted To Add.

That would have to wait until 1997, when I entered full time work. My wage? £7,200 a year.

**Leopold Helveine**

Hopefully someone at GW read this thread and thinks of the amount of potential buyers alienated now. Thanks for all chiming in so far in this thread, didn't expect so much conversation.

**Da Boss**

Sadly I'm skeptical about that! I doubt GW people read Dakkadakka any more.

And I'm sure they have their own reasons for switching from the older Start Collecting boxes to the newer Combat Patrols.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Looking at GW’s financials over the past year? It’s not the problem some would want it to be.

**Slipspace**

Leopold Helveine wrote:
Hopefully someone at GW read this thread and thinks of the amount of potential buyers alienated now. Thanks for all chiming in so far in this thread, didn't expect so much conversation.

We have no way of knowing how many people are alienated by the contents of these boxes compared to how many prefer them over some other combination of units, so even if GW read this, they aren't going to change their minds. Value depends on circumstances. For example, the new BA combat patrol is pretty good value, but it includes Assault Intercessors who are not great and have also been available in loads of other discounted boxes so they're dirt cheap online, which reduces the value of the box. Infiltrators are really good right now, so they'd have been a "better" unit to include in the box, but not so thematic for BA.

**Eilif**

Over the past 30 years, GWs customers have consistently shown GW that they will accept paying more and getting less.

Sure, a few folks like myself have long stopped buying but we're a minority and y'all are still riding the crazy train.

GW is simply doing what customers have trained them to expect.

**Nevelon**

Are the combat patrols a worse value? I thought the discount vs. buying the kits separately was roughly the same. It’s just a large block of stuff in one drop.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

They’re arguably better value, as each Combat Patrol is, by design, a fieldable force.

One you’ll likely want to expand upon, sure. But ready to go once assembled and ideally painted all the same, and you don’t need to add anything further.

**Nevelon**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
They’re arguably better value, as each Combat Patrol is, by design, a fieldable force.

One you’ll likely want to expand upon, sure. But ready to go once assembled and ideally painted all the same, and you don’t need to add anything further.

Fully agree that the combat patrols hold together better as a coherent force. But it is a bit easier to feel more like an army when you have more units.

From a value POV a chunk of the “bargain” can be from getting the overpriced HQs. And the value of those goes down with duplicates. So two SC sets are going to seem worse then a CP, even if the cost is the same.

In an ideal world we’d have both, but shelf space is not infinite and product management logistics are a thing. I liked the general formal of HQ + Troop + iconic extra unit that a lot of the SC kits followed.