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 RaptorusRex wrote:
I want Red Guardian to go crouching dumbgak, hidden dragon. That's all I want, Disney. You hear? I want the old fat guy to beat the absolute stuffing out of some mooks in a hallway.

I'd be reasonably comfortable in thinking each character is likely to get at least one combat moment where they get to shine - we've even seen one of Bucky's in the trailer.

 insaniak wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Marvel films, like Marvel comics, have gotten way too timid about killing characters which robs things of stakes.

To be fair, that's not a problem exclusive to Marvel...

I'd love to see a reboot of both Marvel and DC's comics universes that starts over from the beginning and has characters aging, dying, and being replaced on a sensible timeline, instead of just freezing them in their 40's while entire new generations of characters grow up around them. Sadly, I think they've both painted themselves into a corner by hanging onto the original characters for so long.

Even if they age and die, they've rebooted most of them so many times now. Even in the films there's, what, 4 or 5 different Spidermen continuities (not counting the Spiderverse film which has countless spiders)

 Overread wrote:

Even if they age and die, they've rebooted most of them so many times now. Even in the films there's, what, 4 or 5 different Spidermen continuities (not counting the Spiderverse film which has countless spiders)

Spiderman ran afoul of Sony contractually having to keep making movies or lose the license. At least with the latest incarnation they finally realised that they don't actually have to start yet another reboot with a variation of the origin story...

Marvel got clever with that one as well with the Norton Hulk movie, by condensing the origin story into the opening credits instead of doing it all again so soon after the previous Hulk movie.

To be fair they tried torch passing repeatedly, but people throw a pitch fit and demand Their version of the character back. They juggle it as much as they can to try and keep as many people invested as they can.

And that's fair... but it's also a side effect of keeping those characters around for so long that fans can't accept anyone else in the role.

Marvel actually acknowledged a similar issue with the original X-men comics... the idea was originally for the X-men to be a rotating cast, so that they could use it as a platform to play with new ideas, rather than being locked into a specific team. But then the starter team proved to be popular, and they would up keeping them around for long enough that people got upset when they were swapped out for other characters, so they had to keep them around.

Bruce Wayne getting too old for this gak and passing the mantle on to Dick, or Barbara, or some other newcomer would have been a fantastic direction for the Batcomics 40 years ago... but Bruce has been Batman for so long now, and they've teased his removal and then pulled away the football so many times now that they're pretty much stuck with an eternally 40-something year old Bruce Wayne being Batman forever.

And the fear of permanently killing off characters across the board with both companies makes any character death meaningless, because from the moment someone dies you're just waiting to see how they bring them back.

If anything, Marvel films were too liberal in killing the rogues' gallery.

Red Skull is a non-factor in the films except ideologically.

That's a little different, though. In the comics, villains aren't killed because it would leave the writers having to come up with even more new baddies than they already have to. When you have to pump out a story a month for the next 30 years, you need a rogue's gallery you can return to.

That's not as much of an issue for a movie series. If you're only going to get half a dozen movies out of a superhero before they age out of the role, it's going to be far more interesting to keep introducing new villains instead of, say, wasting a second movie on Black Manta...

Thing is, I would agree except they killed Red Skull in Cap's first movie, Zola the next, etc. Thus, we have a situation where a suitless Zemo is the only really major C.A villain running around at current and Sidewinder of all characters is a headliner.

I think part of the issue is that they keep going for big ultimate films. Arch nemesis; world/universe ending storylines and so forth.

The big showstoppers is all that hollywood is focused on right now for the most part.


Honestly whilst I feel Batman has latched onto Joker WAY too much; I do have to also hold up Batman as an example of where they have often dipped into lesser threats, esp in the older films. You don't have to end the world to have a solid adventure story with lots of action and such.

Of course if in the first and second films you've had your hero already save all the universe then yeah you've set yourself up for a problem that you escalated so fast that you've nothing left save a reboot/alternate timeline/whatever the heck the multiverse does

 Overread wrote:
I think part of the issue is that they keep going for big ultimate films. Arch nemesis; world/universe ending storylines and so forth.

The big showstoppers is all that hollywood is focused on right now for the most part.


Honestly whilst I feel Batman has latched onto Joker WAY too much; I do have to also hold up Batman as an example of where they have often dipped into lesser threats, esp in the older films. You don't have to end the world to have a solid adventure story with lots of action and such.

Of course if in the first and second films you've had your hero already save all the universe then yeah you've set yourself up for a problem that you escalated so fast that you've nothing left save a reboot/alternate timeline/whatever the heck the multiverse does

This is true, too. I just want a Captain America that has two-bit philosophical dialogues as he fights, ala the "FEEL MY GRIP ZEMO" page.

Killing off villains was less of a concern back when the likelihood of having enough movies where reusing would matter was even a fleeting concern.

As for comics, the issue is really that there's no right retirement age for comic heroes and having your protagonists efforts end in death isn't particularly endearing for their successors. Never giving up is most of the appeal, so its hard to tell a story where they do and their fans absolutely do not want to believe they're getting old either.

It's also just really hard to give successors a compelling origin story tied to their hero identity when they inherited it. Explaining another character's origin to explain the next gets wildly complicated and hard to see to new readers.

Nightwing is probably the ultimate example of the issue. No matter how fitting he is to wear the cowl, he's just not Bruce and he loses so much of what makes him iconic in trying to be Batman. He's got ties to different characters and while it would be awesome to see that evolve together, its really, really hard to pull off alone, let alone with multiple writers with competing favorites.

So.... after all that rambling.... yeah, I'd like to see heroes change and grow more, but I also get why we cling to our favorites. I'm not sure there's a solid answer.

The movies definitely suffer from the constant escalation of threat. Each one building to bigger and bigger consequences for failure, and never going back down to local stuff afterwards.

Initial screening reviews are positive.

Rumor has it we may see in the 3rd act.

I mean, that's only to be assumed.

I agree! But now people who have apparently seen it are saying it is happening.

Also comic accurate (with Live action adjustments and flairs) costume is apparently in the movie.

New trailer. Little more spoilery.

Yeah, wish they'd not put him in anything before the film came out.

 Dysartes wrote:
Yeah, wish they'd not put him in anything before the film came out.

Agreed.

Of course we have a Big Game trailer....

Yeah I can dig it.

The ad was one of the high points of the game.

I’m intrigued that they’ve still got the asterisk on the title, even this close to release? What the hell are they going to change it to?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(Unless it’s an in-joke, because they don’t want to call themselves Thunderbolts?)

 Jadenim wrote:
I’m intrigued that they’ve still got the asterisk on the title, even this close to release? What the hell are they going to change it to?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(Unless it’s an in-joke, because they don’t want to call themselves Thunderbolts?)

I just took it as a joke about their protests over the team name.

All I hope for the movie is that they find a way to give us a REAL taskmaster and Ghost since both are just the movie teams finding a cool character a cool name and powers and just make an entirely different character, and if there's a sequel please add Black ant (marvel will make him a man, they don't want to bring up women rapists) and make him Taskmaster's best bud, and that they make this movie worth it's title and hook

 BagMan wrote:
All I hope for the movie is that they find a way to give us a REAL taskmaster and Ghost since both are just the movie teams finding a cool character a cool name and powers and just make an entirely different character

Considering we already know the actresses are playing the same characters and are using the the same costumes as the previous films that they were introduced in I'm not sure where your hope is coming from.

Taskmaster at least has potential to be a character now that she's not a lobotomized robot. Ghost also has potential to be.... something. Obviously not the same as their comic counterparts, but they have a lot of room to be more than they were.

With Red Guardian, Winter Soldier and Yelena being the big stars for the picture though, I suspect they'll not get a lot of time for development. At least this film is probably one of the last of the D+ messes to work itself out. Perhaps one more with Young Avengers?

This one looks great. Excited for this.

 Ahtman wrote:

 BagMan wrote:
All I hope for the movie is that they find a way to give us a REAL taskmaster and Ghost since both are just the movie teams finding a cool character a cool name and powers and just make an entirely different character

Considering we already know the actresses are playing the same characters and are using the the same costumes as the previous films that they were introduced in I'm not sure where your hope is coming from.

The sheer amount of copium I inhaled while watching every scream movie. Anything that can happen apparently will happen. Lets hope black any comes into the movies soon so we can have the Taskmaster and black ant duo on screen.

An interesting twist for movie born out of the Captain America one…