Switch Theme:

Was a reason given for the Space Wolves using the Leman Russ Exterminator over the others?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




As far as i'm aware, the first mention of this was in the 3rd Space Wolf Rulebook (2002). And as far as i'm aware, by the year 2000, we already had models for the Leman Russ; Demolishers, Vanquishers, Exterminators, Executioners. So my question is 'why the Exterminator?'

The Leman Russ is generally used only by the Imperial Guard, but in recognition of their Primarch, the Space Wolves do have a handful of Leman Russ Exterminators in their inventory. The Exterminator is a variant of the basic Leman Russ tank design that carries a twin autocannon in place of the standard battle cannon.

   
Made in us
Terrifying Rhinox Rider





Chambers said at the time that he wanted all armies to be in distinct niches. The small arms carried by guardians, banshees, and scorpions were retconned from lasguns to shurikens. Orks went from a full spectrum but zany army to an all melee one, and shootas were fully separated from boltguns. Those are the examples he gave.

I inferred that it had to be an Executioner because if they could throw battle cannon templates the full length of the table that would encroach on the guard's niche. Having a bs4 autocannon doesn't change much about the army, it just adds some color.

I don't remember a background explanation, and most of the chambers reforms didn't have any. The eldar lasguns didnt have an explanation. Vanilla Techmarines were put in command squads with the Apothecary to simplify the rules. There's no background explanation. Assault Squads couldn't upgrade their chains words to power swords or fists, with no explanation.

The leman russ in a Wolves army is fun. If anything, there needs to be an explanation of how they use any Russ at all. The Predator can be delivered and extracted right on and off the battlefield by the marines' two standard landing craft. A russ needs way more infrastructure than that. You have to assume there's a whole different doctrine for Wolves if they can use a Russ
   
Made in se
Stubborn Hammerer





Sweden

Excellently put, pelicaniforce. And given how GW has leant into Astartes gigantism one do wonder if the Space Wolf Leman Russ tanks are built differently inside given the bigger crew. Usually having short people is what you want in tanks, and many tanks have historically been built with that in mind. This would obviously be in line with the Imperium.

By the way, is anyone else all for giving Imperial Fists Rogal Dorn tanks for the fun of it?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/11/12 07:55:19


   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




 Karak Norn Clansman wrote:
Excellently put, pelicaniforce. And given how GW has leant into Astartes gigantism one do wonder if the Space Wolf Leman Russ tanks are built differently inside given the bigger crew. Usually having short people is what you want in tanks, and many tanks have historically been built with that in mind. This would obviously be in line with the Imperium.

By the way, is anyone else all for giving Imperial Fists Rogal Dorn tanks for the fun of it?


feth it. sure. why not

On that topic, ive found the idea of Marines cramming inside of a Malcador Heavy Tank to be very amusing (i think there were rules for that back in the 2010's)
   
Made in gb
Calculating Commissar





England

Rules for Vanquishers and Executioners was always very unlikely as they were Forge World only at the time. Vanquishers made it into Codex: Imperial Guard (3rd edition, 1st codex) and the subsequent armoured company lists in Chaper Approved, but that is highly unusual for the era and they were dropped in the 2nd codex of 3rd edition.

Demolishers step on the toes of the Vindicator too closely.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







I'd go with PelicanForce's idea as well. The Exterminator is basically a slightly beefed up Predator, so fits neatly into the established army roles.

Unfortunate they couldn't go full fluff with them using the Executioner, but I'm not sure that even existed at the time this codex came out.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/11/12 11:57:07


Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Flinty wrote:
I'd go with PelicanForce's idea as well. The Exterminator is basically a slightly beefed up Predator, so fits neatly into the established army roles.

Or even simpler, they use it because Predators already have tank autocannon and ammo supply is not a problem. I'd imagine some modification to guns, but after that, it fits into your logistic chain without massive issues battle cannon or demolisher would cause.

Unfortunate they couldn't go full fluff with them using the Executioner, but I'm not sure that even existed at the time this codex came out.

Why on Holy Terra they would use that if A) no SM tank until primaris ones utilized light or heavy plasma in any capacity, and B) SW aren't known for their use of plasma tech, like, at all and that was before their signature special weapon was retconned to frostywolfwolf guns.

Then there is the fact that HH Legions did use Predators with executioner plasma destroyers, but the practice is long abandoned which suggests these didn't fit SM at all in some way, be it logistics, maintenance, ease of production, or whatever other issue that led to them being withdrawn so expecting even more niche and troublesome vehicle to have one is weird. If anything, I'd expect LR Annihilator to be the other tank fielded by SW because again, commonality with Predators makes them much less of an issue...
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






The FW Deimos (Relic) Predator had a Plasma Cannon and that predates Primaris by at least a decade.
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







I was being a bit obtuse and riffing on Leman Russ’ (self?) assigned title.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Gert wrote:
The FW Deimos (Relic) Predator had a Plasma Cannon and that predates Primaris by at least a decade.

Read what I wrote, that was HH model shoehorned into 40K through a backdoor in a handful of obscure (and expensive) publications but it never was in any proper 40K SM (or CSM) Codex. And even in universe, the fact that some random Chapter #584 has one of these parked in garage for the last 9997 years and takes it for a spin once every millenium or so doesn't change the fact it's not standard SM vehicle anymore, which says a lot seeing semingly no part of it should be impossible to manufacture now so it had to have a pretty big drawback that led to it being scrapped.
   
Made in gb
Calculating Commissar





England

Space Wolves are not known for a particular affinity with plasma like the Dark Angels... but they have always had very good access to it and plasma weaponry features heavily in Space Wolves forces. Grey Hunters, Blod Claws, and Wolf Scouts have been able to take three plasma weapons for multiple editions, and the Long Fangs studio unit has a plasma gun on the squad leader.

Plus the Space Wolves in general use a lot of archeotech and have a lot of skilled artisans, albeit not as skilled as the likes of the Salamanders and Iron Hands. The Space Wolves are a Chapter that successfully maintains a fleet of at least 8 battle barges and 30+ strike cruisers, large numbers of very venerable dreadnoughts, and one of the mightiest fortresses in the Imperium despite having a strength of probably about 2000 Marines (suggesting high levels of automation).

Predator Executioners fell out of use for the same reason Leman Russ Executioners have- they are hard to produce and maintain and are barely-understood archeotech by the 41st millennium. For the most part they are treasured relics that can only be replicated by a tiny number of people.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Irbis wrote:
 Gert wrote:
The FW Deimos (Relic) Predator had a Plasma Cannon and that predates Primaris by at least a decade.

Read what I wrote, that was HH model shoehorned into 40K through a backdoor in a handful of obscure (and expensive) publications but it never was in any proper 40K SM (or CSM) Codex. And even in universe, the fact that some random Chapter #584 has one of these parked in garage for the last 9997 years and takes it for a spin once every millenium or so doesn't change the fact it's not standard SM vehicle anymore, which says a lot seeing semingly no part of it should be impossible to manufacture now so it had to have a pretty big drawback that led to it being scrapped.


This is true for the Leman Russ Executioner too. The weapon is difficult to manufacture and almost lost tech to the Imperium. The issue is production, not use.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/11/19 21:29:30


 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






 Irbis wrote:
Read what I wrote, that was HH model shoehorned into 40K through a backdoor in a handful of obscure (and expensive) publications but it never was in any proper 40K SM (or CSM) Codex. And even in universe, the fact that some random Chapter #584 has one of these parked in garage for the last 9997 years and takes it for a spin once every millenium or so doesn't change the fact it's not standard SM vehicle anymore, which says a lot seeing semingly no part of it should be impossible to manufacture now so it had to have a pretty big drawback that led to it being scrapped.

The Deimos was made a Heresy-era pattern adapted from the original Rhino chassis models so it's hardly "shoehorned". IA isn't obscure either, expensive yeah, obscure no.

You also never said anything about it being standard issue to Chapters; you just said no Space Marine tank ever had plasma weaponry prior to Primaris, a statement that is categorically untrue. Razorbacks could take twin Plasma+Lascannon as well for a very long time.
If we expand beyond tanks then we can include Dreadnoughts, Stormeagles, and the Land Speeder Vengeance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/11/19 23:02:54


 
   
Made in gb
Calculating Commissar





England

If listing Marine tanks with plasma weapons, there is also the Rhino Primaris with twin-linked plasma gun (one of the two command tanks exclusive to Warhammer World).

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut







 Gert wrote:
You also never said anything about it being standard issue to Chapters; you just said no Space Marine tank ever had plasma weaponry prior to Primaris, a statement that is categorically untrue. Razorbacks could take twin Plasma+Lascannon as well for a very long time.

The very original Razorback loadout to be produced as a model, no less - I remember the "fun" much-younger Dysartes had trying to keep the darned thing together with superglue, but no knowledge of (or access to) pinning...

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in gb
Calculating Commissar





England

I have a soft spot for the las-plas Razorback, its such an odd yet surprisingly useful loadout.

Plus the FW design for the MkII Razorback looks great:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern






Is…is…is the reason that 3rd Ed was a massive bag of gak?

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Hey look! It’s my 2025 Hobby Log/Blog/Project/Whatevs 
   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos






The Land of Humidity

I have a strange feeling that the chapter with one of these living in a hangar was the meme army itself: the Blood Ravens.

 BorderCountess wrote:
Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
Voices of the Omnissiah: Quotations from the Adeptus Mechanicus
 
   
Made in gb
Calculating Commissar





England

Turns out there is lore stating the Space Wolves have an affinity for plasma weapons!

From Codex: Space Wolves (5th edition):

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







Nice find

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Background
Go to: