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 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Not a 40k unit but the Ground Eldar Sky Cutter deserves a mention.

A flying Ground Eldar Boat powered by Fairy Dust I can see. But somehow seeing it towed by eagles just ruins it. Came out around the same time as Santa Logan too.

I've removed the 40k tag... that beautiful model makes my brain hurt.

How exactly does it land?

Almost all of them are Marines for me:

Truly awful are:

* Centurions
* Dreadknights
* Wolfs riding on Wolfs
* Logan on WulfWulf Chariot
* I don;t like the recent Sisters suits with silly little arms and exposed
* Pretty much all the plastic Marine flyers

I'm surprised this thing hasn't even got a mention:

 Overread wrote:

 Hotzenplotz wrote:
Jokaero weaponsmith. The Imperium hates xenos but lets orangutan aliens dabble with their weapons.

The Imperium is highly Xenophobic unless they can make use of you
Heck they had Eldar help fix the Golden Throne. You can't get closer to the heart of the Imperium than that.


Their Xenophobia is basically generations of fear and mantra after bad experiences. It's the same as their fear of AI.
Those at the upper reaches are either fully entrenched in rhetoric and fear; or they are a touch more open minded having seen more of the universe and all.



Heck loads of systems and governors and private firms will trade with Xenos and get xenotech. Highly illegal, but it happens

Yup - the Imperium as an organisation is xenophobic. The individuals running the show know full well that some of those xenos are useful, and will make use of that were it suits them.


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 vipoid wrote:
I'm surprised this thing hasn't even got a mention:

Spoiler:

Pretty much all of the Primaris vehicles fit in there.

I converted a Repulsor to have tracks and fewer weapons, and it still looks significantly less cool than a Land Raider or a Rhino.

 insaniak wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
I'm surprised this thing hasn't even got a mention:

Spoiler:

Pretty much all of the Primaris vehicles fit in there.

I converted a Repulsor to have tracks and fewer weapons, and it still looks significantly less cool than a Land Raider or a Rhino.

Hell I was just gonna say Primaris in general.

The marine line was basically complete somewhere in 3rd or 4th edition. I see the addition of Scout Bikers as the cutoff point, and honestly I could take or leave them. But they get a pass because Scouts existed, Bikes existed, and both are forward acting units.

Sternguard and Vanguard officially came in 5th, but they're a rebranding of Veteran and Assault units that were already there (Assault Squads could be armed with fancy CC weapons in RT and 2nd, and Sternguard are just Veterans that used the Bolters of the Deathwatch rules in 3rd) The Vindicator was added in 3rd, but was brought over from the earlier Epic/Space Marine, as was the Drop Pod.

I'd also suggest a pass for the Land Speeder Storm, as it feels like a suitable sort of transport to get Scouts to a forward position quickly.

 Dysartes wrote:
I'd also suggest a pass for the Land Speeder Storm, as it feels like a suitable sort of transport to get Scouts to a forward position quickly.

The Scouts get a pass as a whole, they are the only Space Marine Unit to survive the great redesign nightmare.

If I played Marines, I could remember the dumb in universe where you put a regular pilot into a dreadnought, and magically the dreadnought becomes quiet and stealthy.

Oh, and he gets a Heavy Bolter Pistol. Oh. The Horror, the Horror.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
I'd also suggest a pass for the Land Speeder Storm, as it feels like a suitable sort of transport to get Scouts to a forward position quickly.

The Scouts get a pass as a whole, they are the only Space Marine Unit to survive the great redesign nightmare.

So you don't count Terminators?

^I think Terminators are the only real survivors since the Scouts lost their option for Sniper Rifles.

The dumbest models are the 21 non-demon Primarch models (19 for Heresy and 2 for 40K, by my count). Why are they 12 feet tall?

 Insectum7 wrote:
^I think Terminators are the only real survivors since the Scouts lost their option for Sniper Rifles.

Scouts didn't lose the option.
1) the codex data sheet/current kit allows 1/5 to take a sniper rifle.
2) the Legends Scout Sniper entry comes standrd with sniper rifles. Its just that most of you just have some odd aversion to using Legends options.
But you CHOOSING not to use all of the rules of the game =/= to the loss of options.

 Saber wrote:
The dumbest models are the 21 non-demon Primarch models (19 for Heresy and 2 for 40K, by my count). Why are they 12 feet tall?

^Omg right?

Back in the day I almost bought a FW Guilliman . . . Then I saw how big he was and decided "hard pass".


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ccs wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^I think Terminators are the only real survivors since the Scouts lost their option for Sniper Rifles.

Scouts didn't lose the option.
1) the codex data sheet/current kit allows 1/5 to take a sniper rifle.
2) the Legends Scout Sniper entry comes standrd with sniper rifles. Its just that most of you just have some odd aversion to using Legends options.
But you CHOOSING not to use all of the rules of the game =/= to the loss of options.

I understand they're in Legends, and I would use them in places that allow them. But tourney rules and league rules are a thing.

But also they shouldn't be in Legends in the first place.

It is a newly imposed restriction whether YOU play with it or not.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Not a 40k unit but the Ground Eldar Sky Cutter deserves a mention.

A flying Ground Eldar Boat powered by Fairy Dust I can see. But somehow seeing it towed by eagles just ruins it. Came out around the same time as Santa Logan too.

Lol the moment that eagle has to make a juke against incoming projectiles that .."boat" flops upside down and throws those high elves against the rocks haha

 Tyran wrote:
I think it is purely functional. Fully intergrated weapons have limited degrees of movement and volume issues, meaning they are either underpowered or require the entire creature being redesigned to accomodate them.

I've always kind of viewed the Tyranid bio weapons the same way I do mating Anglerfish here on Earth. For those that aren't in the know, Angler Fish females are larger, and when they "mate" a male will come up and bite down on the female's side. Often times multiple males. They will literally NEVER let go, and their bodies fuse to the female. Their circulatory and nervous systems meshes with the female, their brains get absorbed into the female's body, and in essence they become another limb on the female's body.

I'd like to think something similar happens with Tyranids. They have a "base" body for whatever species, and then living bioweapons can clamp on when they determine they'll be needing a certain layout. Add some time for them to mesh into each other.


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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Oh you sweet summer children with ribbons in your hair.

The Original Dark Eldar Line

Specifically the original Archon, warriors and Grotesques.

The vehicles were pretty naff and all.

I'm going to have to disagree a bit here. I actually prefer the spiky look of the older vehicles. At least they look like giant Jetbikes instead of the weird hover-sailboats we have today. I also preferred the look of the Warriors' weapons over newer versions. Their helmets though.... Look like Hella from Thor Ragnarök.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Hell I was just gonna say Primaris in general.

Proportion- and detail-wise, most of the Primaris range (aside from the vehicles) is excellent. I just dislike that they're so big. Likewise, the Primaris dreadnoughts were a fantastic redesign of the boxnaught... but should have been half the size. They're stupidly large for what they are supposed to be.

And yeah, I'll echo the comments on the Primarchs. Making them into 12 foot tall behemoths was the worst mistake GW made in introducing them. It fails in the model range because it looks stupid, and it fails in the fiction because the writers constantly forget about it and so are really inconsistent at taking it into account. For every 'Guilliman waving a bolter around like a pistol', there's a dozen 'are we just assuming that everyone in the galaxy makes 15 foot tall doorways?'

They should never have been Greater Daemon equivalents. The Primarchs, as the blueprints for Space Marines, should have been just... slightly better Space Marines. Same size, same physiology, with their awesomeness coming from battle experience and the hyperbole of 30 thousand years worth of mythology centered around them.

 insaniak wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Hell I was just gonna say Primaris in general.

Proportion- and detail-wise, most of the Primaris range (aside from the vehicles) is excellent. I just dislike that they're so big. Likewise, the Primaris dreadnoughts were a fantastic redesign of the boxnaught... but should have been half the size. They're stupidly large for what they are supposed to be.

And yeah, I'll echo the comments on the Primarchs. Making them into 12 foot tall behemoths was the worst mistake GW made in introducing them. It fails in the model range because it looks stupid, and it fails in the fiction because the writers constantly forget about it and so are really inconsistent at taking it into account. For every 'Guilliman waving a bolter around like a pistol', there's a dozen 'are we just assuming that everyone in the galaxy makes 15 foot tall doorways?'

They should never have been Greater Daemon equivalents. The Primarchs, as the blueprints for Space Marines, should have been just... slightly better Space Marines. Same size, same physiology, with their awesomeness coming from battle experience and the hyperbole of 30 thousand years worth of mythology centered around them.

That I would have found awesome. Giant stompy guilliman never clicked for me for exactly those reasons.

The hill giant sized primarchs, to me, is an obvious attempt to stop folks from just converting or kit bashing their own rather than drop a C note on one model.

That would certainly track with GW's general modus operandi around the time Primarchs started showing up.

I had the idea a while back of converting up my own versions of the Primarchs from Primaris Marines - they would work out a much more reasonable size against oldschool Marines. Got as far as picking up a couple of models to get started, and then got sidetracked, so will probably never happen.

The Khorne Lord of Skulls. A model that would have looked infinitly better with legs instead of treads. And the Kytan Ravager proves that.

Col. Dash wrote:
#5 All the stupid Dinobots- literally all of them. I refuse to use them. Whoever came up with this concept of marines get tanks and chaos get Dinobots needs to be fired.

I think we might be related.

Oh I forgot about the heldrake. Such an awesome model, it looked like a mechanical dragon that swaps out its lower half for a jet exhaust. Great sculpt, gives off a bit of a body horror vibe.

Except they stuck two tiny chicken legs to the back, making it no longer a metal flying torso but a weirdly shaped full-size dragon with babylegs. These hind legs transform its exhaust into a giant flaming sphincter, making it impossible to take seriously.

Btw can't really think of anything I consider dumb looking in 40k from the top of head but when it comes to AOS. ohboy..

Since it's now all of Warhammer, I'm gonna toss in the stupid Cow-Hat High Elves from Age of Sigmar. There is no amount of elven grace that make those things work me. EVER.

shortymcnostrill wrote:
Except they stuck two tiny chicken legs to the back, making it no longer a metal flying torso but a weirdly shaped full-size dragon with babylegs. These hind legs transform its exhaust into a giant flaming sphincter, making it impossible to take seriously.

So, shorty, question - how would you have included some form of landing gear in the design, if not clawed legs?

The main issue is that the model hasn't got a tail so its rear end appears unfinished/ungainly for what's basically a mech-dragon

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
The Khorne Lord of Skulls. A model that would have looked infinitly better with legs instead of treads. And the Kytan Ravager proves that.

I totally forgot about that one, and I would now like to change my vote. Let's not forget about the 4 giant tanks on its butt that are full of blood for its "blood cannon" that shoots boiling blood on you. Literally when I search for an image of the model 1/4 of the results are conversions by people trying to give it legs.

 Overread wrote:
The main issue is that the model hasn't got a tail so its rear end appears unfinished/ungainly for what's basically a mech-dragon

Consider it a mech pterodactyl instead, those also mostly lacked tails.

 Dysartes wrote:

shortymcnostrill wrote:
Except they stuck two tiny chicken legs to the back, making it no longer a metal flying torso but a weirdly shaped full-size dragon with babylegs. These hind legs transform its exhaust into a giant flaming sphincter, making it impossible to take seriously.

So, shorty, question - how would you have included some form of landing gear in the design, if not clawed legs?

I'm no model designer, I'm not sure. Does it even need visible landing gear?

In fact, that's probably my answer. I wouldn't have included landing gear at all. I'd focus on the concept and leave the "realistic" details off. It is a demon engine after all, gritty realism is for the factions that don't run on warp magic.

To be fair its hind legs never registered as landing gear for me either, they're far too weedy. I was already operating under the assumption the model has no visible landing gear.


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 Tyran wrote:

 Overread wrote:
The main issue is that the model hasn't got a tail so its rear end appears unfinished/ungainly for what's basically a mech-dragon

Consider it a mech pterodactyl instead, those also mostly lacked tails.

And they had stubby legs. That helps a lot actually, I've been seeing it as a mech dragon with a weird lower half all this time. Thanks!

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Since it's now all of Warhammer, I'm gonna toss in the stupid Cow-Hat High Elves from Age of Sigmar. There is no amount of elven grace that make those things work me. EVER.

Cow Hat? I'm not familiar with this... but I'm intrigued (and dumb) enough to open the Necronomicon, and ask "what do they look like?"

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Since it's now all of Warhammer, I'm gonna toss in the stupid Cow-Hat High Elves from Age of Sigmar. There is no amount of elven grace that make those things work me. EVER.

Cow Hat? I'm not familiar with this... but I'm intrigued (and dumb) enough to open the Necronomicon, and ask "what do they look like?"

They start with your basic tall elven helm, then add even more height, and then massive horns sticking out the side at the top. Like, the helmet looks to be around the same height as their entire leg.

Lumineth are weird because the core range - spears/archers/silver helms are 10/10, some of the best models I think GW has ever made.
But everything else in the faction has this horrible uncanny valley effect to me. The cow-hatted crocket mallet wielding guys were the first bizarre aesthetic choice, but its true of everything else. (I guess the Kangaroo archers aren't so bad as models, but "why?")

On classic 3rd edition Dark Eldar... I'd agree the Warriors weren't great sculpts. Mainly the giant helmets as people say. But I'm not sure about the rest of the range. I thought it was pretty good in 1998.

Maybe its subjective - but I prefer this guy to the current Archon.

But the one in the middle was probably the best.

I guess I don't really mind Primaris because they are just marines+1. Bigger, more bling, more whatever. So I guess I can understand not liking the Storm Speeder - but in some respects I just think its a Land Speeder with updated Marine aesthetics (i.e. "its a brick that can fly"). If you want curves, that's what glorious superior Eldar are for.

One day GW will presumably re-do the Vyper, and its almost certainly going to be bigger and better. Or maybe like Ork Buggies Eldar will rather randomly get 5 equivalent models.