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Also worth knowing that, in the early days of this expedition, the Squats helped build the Hives we know today.

Indeed, when representatives of the Anglish were taken hostage in a Hive, they managed to fight their way free, headed down hive and shutdown its environmental systems, dooming that Hive to a slow death.

This shows they clearly still hold significant knowledge as to what makes a Hive tick, and so have a role in the maintenance that others probably lack entirely.

In terms of initial numbers? They arrived as 13 Clans, each with their own Bastion ship. Whilst we don’t know crew numbers typical of such ships? We are told they’re, at least compared to Imperial vessels, heavily automated. We also know they’re roughly analogous in size and combat role to Imperial Cruisers. And a quick Google suggests a Lunar Class has a crew complement of 95,000 souls.

From here we can extrapolate somewhat. Let’s not be silly, and go with 50% of the crew complement of a Lunar Class, so 47,500 souls.

Only 12 of the Bastion ships stuck around. That give us an initial population in the benchmark region of 570,000.

Whilst it’s tempting to use that figure, and then human birth rates to predict what it might look like 10,000 years later? We also need to keep in mind that Squats live for centuries, and aren’t considered mature until we’d be well into our middle age.

Not guaranteed, but that is suggestive of a lower rate of reproduction. Add in that life on Necromunda is inherently hazardous, and it can be hard to say exactly how many Squats there are now. But, from an initial population of somewhere around 570,000, the loss of Holdfasts and the general horrors of Necromunda, it may only be a few million.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I really like both, and each stands on its own merits. But I’ve a definite appreciation for the Rogue Trader stylings of the Ironheads. Especially as it looks developed, rather than overhauled. As if the Rogue Trader Squats were the common ancestor aesthetic, and just how all Kin looked 10,000 years ago.

I've seen this sort of thing said quite a lot, the idea that they're somehow closer to the original squat miniatures...but I don't really understand what about them is that? Both the Ironhead Squats and the votann designs are significant changes from the stylings of the classic 40k Squats.

Grumpy Mode on:

Personally I don't like either but the Ironheads are less bad. I see where some folks find RT-connections with the helmet, but personally I don't see much beyond that. Especially since GW did make the RT-styled Grendl Grendlsen who could have been the model for what followed and who I would have bought if he'd been sized like my RT squats. Of course he wasn't and it seems the Iron-Who-Cares and Leagues-of-Vanilla are even larger.

OG RT Squats for me please!

@Eilif: Fortunately alternative models in different styles are easy to find nowadays. Both independent companies and STL files of Space Dwarfs in Rogue trader style exist.

It is also possible to convert 6th or 7th edition WHFB Dwarf Warriors into RT Squats with green stuff (I've made some).

Take it from a Chaos Dwarf enjoyer: It has never been easier to find miniatures in different styles.

Charax wrote:
They're abhumans, in that they're a stable strain descended from human genetic stock: Homo Sapiens Rotundus

However the Kin have a lot of dealings with Xenos who are on less than friendly terms with humanity (or sometimes just don't want people to know they're dealing with Kin) so they constructed the identity of the Xenos Demiurg which they operate under.

Basically they're abhumans that cosplay as Xenos when it's convenient

IIRC, it's also been mentioned that the Leagues are worried about the Imperium deciding to declare that since the Kin are all abhuman, they are therefore subject to the laws of the Imperium of Mankind (which includes abhumans). So the Leagues like to keep it a bit vague when dealing with the Imperium.

I'd still love to know if some things are explicitly retconned or just haven't been mentioned:
We know they have Land Trains, what about Goliath Mega-cannons? Iron Eagle Gyrocopters? Overlord armoured airships?

Is the Capitol Imperialis still based on the Squat Leviathan chassis?

With any luck we'll get some information on this when GW finally (since's it's still not on the roadmap, afaik) decides to release the League second wave.

 Karak Norn Clansman wrote:
@Eilif: Fortunately alternative models in different styles are easy to find nowadays. Both independent companies and STL files of Space Dwarfs in Rogue trader style exist.

It is also possible to convert 6th or 7th edition WHFB Dwarf Warriors into RT Squats with green stuff (I've maded some).

Take it from a Chaos Dwarf enjoyer: It has never been easy to find miniatures in different styles.

Really nice work sculpting on those! I've neither the skill or inclination for that, but you're absolutely right that there are RT-style examples in 3d space. If I ever work though my metal and plastic Squat backlog, I'll likely avail myself of them.

As a Chaos Dwarf Enthusiast, I imagine your mini-sourcing woes are even worse than for Squat fans!

 Irbis wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
How do you lose a votann? Presumably they know where the fissure which it fell into is..?

I like the theory that weirdly round and advanced computer Van Saar 'found' has totally nothing to do with said disappearance

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And when circled for prospecting or defence, are referred to as Laager’s.

Pity GW decided to use racist name instead of infinitely more fitting (and cooler) wagenburg. Oh well...

The loss of the Votann has furthermore shown us the Kin do properly understand their technology, as whilst their innovations and capabilities are diminished, they’re not reduced to repair and recycle existing things. Oh no. Every Squat will build a Techmite companion at some point, and make their own gear when the mood takes. So that’s another nice bit of clarification, and supports the overall feel of a rugged, determined species which isn’t solely reliant on Magic Space Tech - but having Magic Space Tech is still a leg up, as one might expect.

Do they?

I can't help but notice they have exactly zero fancy Votann guns, no Ironkin or COGs, and everything they field is slightly modified Imperial tech, including crude stuff like stubbers and autoguns. If anything, Van Saar have stuff that is way more advanced despite being below Votann level. Is there any proof they understand anything more than some particularly bright underhive gunsmith? Because if so, their existing range definitely doesn't support it...

they are not the same，ironhead’core lose in M37，van saar become build there stc empire in M35

ygzezhu wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
How do you lose a votann? Presumably they know where the fissure which it fell into is..?

I like the theory that weirdly round and advanced computer Van Saar 'found' has totally nothing to do with said disappearance

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And when circled for prospecting or defence, are referred to as Laager’s.

Pity GW decided to use racist name instead of infinitely more fitting (and cooler) wagenburg. Oh well...

The loss of the Votann has furthermore shown us the Kin do properly understand their technology, as whilst their innovations and capabilities are diminished, they’re not reduced to repair and recycle existing things. Oh no. Every Squat will build a Techmite companion at some point, and make their own gear when the mood takes. So that’s another nice bit of clarification, and supports the overall feel of a rugged, determined species which isn’t solely reliant on Magic Space Tech - but having Magic Space Tech is still a leg up, as one might expect.

Do they?

I can't help but notice they have exactly zero fancy Votann guns, no Ironkin or COGs, and everything they field is slightly modified Imperial tech, including crude stuff like stubbers and autoguns. If anything, Van Saar have stuff that is way more advanced despite being below Votann level. Is there any proof they understand anything more than some particularly bright underhive gunsmith? Because if so, their existing range definitely doesn't support it...

they are not the same，ironhead’core lose in M37，van saar become build there stc empire in M35

Maybe it fell through warp portal 2,000 years into the past? That would be a reason they can't find it again.

"this mysterious lost piece of tech is also this mysterious found piece of tech even though it makes no sense and we need to bend time and space for it to be true" would be the most contrived, lazy way to resolve those mysteries.

That's not to say GW would never do it, but I really hope they don't

It would be a terrible piece of “so the movie can happen” to be sure