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I know they worship vastly different things and some GSC think they still worship the legit emperor, but have they ever teamed up together to fight Imperial Forces or alike?

I doubt it, but it would be fun imagining what it would look like if a Cultist showed up to the wrong meeting.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I doubt it, but it would be fun imagining what it would look like if a Cultist showed up to the wrong meeting.

This isn’t where I parked my car…

Back in Rogue Trader, a Patriarch could allow itself to become daemonically possessed. The throne of the seated Patriarch model even has an eight pointed star on the back of it.

Chaos Worshippers battle cry of, "Death to the False Emperor!" works quite well on that 4 armed emperor stuff too.

Genestealer mutations are likely pleasing to Tzeentch (in an "oh, this is interesting, let's see how it plays out" way), but surely he and his pals realize that tyranids pose a long-term threat to Chaos by gobbling up all the sentient beings capable of experiencing hope, despair, rage or pleasure.

At most, I think Chaos might use genestealer cults as cat's-paws to strategically weaken Imperial worlds. They'd need to be cautious to keep the threat contained, though, because I don't think Chaos-dominated worlds are immune to the tyranid threat, especially with the Shadow in the Warp disrupting psychic powers. (On the flip side, tyranids can't eat daemons.)

Can Tyranids consume Daemon worlds?

Tyranids can't consume Daemons so it stands to reason they couldn't do the same to a Daemon world.

Traversing the Warp is something that hasn't been explored with Tyranids so it's not really clear how they would interact with somewhere like the Eye of Terror or Maelstrom where reality and un-reality collide.

At most we know that the Hive Tendril above Baal was utterly destroyed when the Great Rift opened.

 Gert wrote:
Tyranids can't consume Daemons so it stands to reason they couldn't do the same to a Daemon world.

Traversing the Warp is something that hasn't been explored with Tyranids so it's not really clear how they would interact with somewhere like the Eye of Terror or Maelstrom where reality and un-reality collide.

At most we know that the Hive Tendril above Baal was utterly destroyed when the Great Rift opened.

Ironically, traversing the warp HAS been explored with tyranids and it was actually their normal method of FTL, until cruddace invented the unbelievably stupid narvhal thing and screwed the background of the nids.... gravity being the weakest force in the universe and claiming they use the gravity of a distant star to pull themselves towards it is the lamest, pulling terminology out the ass to make an idea concept I've seen in 40k for a while.


Because the warp is 40k's method of FTL period, but GW went through a phase where everything needed a bespoke specialness for everything.


A daemonworld is consumable if it's still made of matter and has matter life on it. Whether they would want to is another question.

Hive Fleet Kronos' description in previous Codices have described warp rifts as closing because of it. A sufficiently powerful fleet from Hive Fleet Kronos with their stronger than average Shadow in the Warp might therefore be able to close off smaller rifts or make bigger ones recede away from a Daemon World. A Daemon World can only exist in defiance of the normal laws of physics and reality due to being in a warp/realspace overlap. If the warp goes away, then the laws of realspace re-exert themselves and the Daemon World either falls apart if it is in a physically impossible state, or if not, the daemons on the world start struggling with maintaining their physical forms since daemons require warp energy to sustain themselves in realspace.

Tyranids might not be able to consume the daemons but Kronos seems to operate as a threat elimination force, eliminating Chaos threats which the Hive Mind seems to perceive as a competitor rather than a source of food. That's why other fleets subsidize Kronos by leaving softened defenseless targets for it to feed off of, because Kronos operates at a loss against daemonic enemies that leave no biomass.

There's a GSC cult that accidentally landed in nurgles garden and became nurglite. But that is more like "corrupting another corrupt force".

Originally this is why the GSC were called the GSC: they were a Chaos Cult made of Genestealers. That's why the seated patriarch model has a chaos star on his throne.

Subsequently it's happened a few times, and Necromunda allows you to have a Chaos Corrupted/Genestealer Infected gang

Well, there’s in theory the possibility. But, we’ve also seen examples of Genestealer Cults seeking to eradicate Chaos Cults.

See, the purpose of a GSC is to weaken a planet’s defences, so when a Hive Fleet follows the psychic beacon, the world is ready for consumption. If it goes really well, there’s not even fighting, as the world has been completely pacified. But generally they’ll start their own uprising to ensure enemy forces are well committed and ideally eroded, giving the Hive Fleet a comparatively easy dindins.

Chaos Cults put that at risk. You can’t eat Daemons, and if the Chaos uprising goes really well, you could be looking at the biomass of the world being horribly corrupted.

It’s also possible for a Chaos Cult to outpace a Genestealer Cult’s growth, preventing the GSc fulfilling its purpose. And so you might see smaller scaled skirmishes aimed at curtailing Chaos Cults before they can reach anything like a critical mass.

So if there was such an alliance? Given the whole purpose of the GSC, it seems most likely to be one of convenience. Perhaps to ensure two enemies on the planet (Loyalist and Traitor) rip each other to shreds, whilst the GSC bides its time.

Chaos Cults are also unlikely to tolerate Genestealer Cults, as Genestealer Hybrids are notably more resistent to Chaos than normal humans (comes with the hybrid Tyranid biology).

And of course you cannot sell the planet and its population to the Gods if they are Tyranid chow.

 Tyran wrote:
Chaos Cults are also unlikely to tolerate Genestealer Cults, as Genestealer Hybrids are notably more resistent to Chaos than normal humans (comes with the hybrid Tyranid biology).

And of course you cannot sell the planet and its population to the Gods if they are Tyranid chow.

Also the lack of free will. Sure, the Patriarch doesn’t control all the brood, all of the time. But its mental presence is always there. Provided it has at least some concept of “oh Hive! Don’t do that you loony”, then anyone sniffing around Very Naughty Things could be easily turned back to the proper path.

As ever imperfect memory means I’m not entirely sure if the Patriarch and the Broodmind feed into each other though. If it does, then the “No, We Don’t Lick The Fancy Rocks, That’s How You Get Five Arms” knowledge would likely be there, if only from the most basic level. And not allowing for any detection of Psychic Wrong’un stuff.

On the low end, I’m sure they work together. Enemy of my enemy and all that. Plus with cell structures, the average cultists probably doesn’t know everyone at the local riot. So when you are out tossing firebombs at the local government building, you going to argue with the guy you never met who’s crowbarring open the armored windows? Nope. You are going to give him 3 thumbs up, he’s going to wave back with a tentacle, and you are going to burn that place down together.

You say that. But given no Cultist wants to be particularly noted until the big day? What with The Imperium and its denizens not exactly being ones to talk it out and see if there’s a happy middle ground?

You wave with your third arm?

You wave with your tentacle?

Boy, what a way to pin that event on the other Cult, allowing you to slip away cackling to yourself. Possibly even maniacally. Safe in the knowledge those not part of either will now be setting about the other in the face with a hammer.

Think real worked. No revolution has really been the work of a single, cohesive other. Sure there’ll be a majority opposing view to the status quo. But it’s never “you’re either A or B in this fight”. There are always alliances of varying solidity.

Indeed, a much smaller faction might throw real weight into your side, knowing that should you succeed, there’s a handy period of utter chaos which can be exploited to swell their own numbers, turn opinion against you etc, ready for their shot at the throne.

Iracundus wrote:

Tyranids might not be able to consume the daemons but Kronos seems to operate as a threat elimination force, eliminating Chaos threats which the Hive Mind seems to perceive as a competitor rather than a source of food. That's why other fleets subsidize Kronos by leaving softened defenseless targets for it to feed off of, because Kronos operates at a loss against daemonic enemies that leave no biomass.

^That's really cool, where's that tidbit from?


As for consuming Daemon worlds, as long as there's organic matter the Nids could have a go at it with the Shadow in the Warp helping diffuse the chaos energy to make it possible.

As for Chaos Cults and GSCs working together? I wish they'd bring that back more explicitly like the RT days.

 Gert wrote:
Traversing the Warp is something that hasn't been explored with Tyranids so it's not really clear how they would interact with somewhere like the Eye of Terror or Maelstrom where reality and un-reality collide.

At most we know that the Hive Tendril above Baal was utterly destroyed when the Great Rift opened.

There is some stuff saying the Baal tendril of Leviathan was not utterly destroyed. Just picked up and scattered all over the place.

8th edition tyranid codex wrote:Leviathan’s enormous Baal invasion fleet is torn into a thousand fragments, and spat out across the vast expanse of the galaxy. Several hundred bio-ships tumble out of the void in the heart of the Maelstrom, and there fall upon the piratical fleet of Huron Blackheart, master of the Red Corsairs. Another, larger host emerges in the midst of the Velis System, fearfully close to the heart of Segmentum Solar. Garbled distress calls received from Velis Prime speak of frenzied, shrieking swarms of Tyranids covered in bizarre, fungoid growths and wielding previously unrecorded bioweapons. It is unknown how many more of these splinter fleets survived the cataclysm at Baal intact.

Codexes for the past couple of editions have talked about how tyranid ships are able to survive being tossed into the warp. They may not travel that way under normal circumstances, but it doesn't damage them much compared to ships from other races, and they're usually just tossed back out again somewhere else.

9th + 10 edition tyranid codexes wrote:The longer the scholars of the galaxy study the Tyranid menace, the more bewildered they become by the xenos' interactions with the warp. In some ways, the Tyranids appear empyrically inert. The Order Xenos have pieced together records that show splinter fleets swallowed by warp rents, only to emerge from other immaterean phenomena in entirely different regions of the galaxy. Should most races' craft be plunged through the warp like this they would likely emerge badly damaged or mutated, if they emerged at all. The hive ships appear unharmed, however, surging from the roiling tides of warp space as hungry and as deadly as ever.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

Tyranids might not be able to consume the daemons but Kronos seems to operate as a threat elimination force, eliminating Chaos threats which the Hive Mind seems to perceive as a competitor rather than a source of food. That's why other fleets subsidize Kronos by leaving softened defenseless targets for it to feed off of, because Kronos operates at a loss against daemonic enemies that leave no biomass.

^That's really cool, where's that tidbit from?

It's been mentioned in the codexes since 8th edition, when Kronos was introduced.

8th edition tyranid codex wrote:The raw matter of Chaos is anathema to the Tyranids, for it is inconstant and ethereal, possessing none of the nourishment that the hive fleets require to sate their endless hunger. Thus, the Tyranids– when possible– avoid areas plagued by warp storms and daemonic activity. As the impure essence of the immaterium pours into realspace across the galaxy, this is becoming increasingly difficult. Vital resources are being denied to the hive fleets as entire sectors are consumed by Chaos, and the Hive Mind has been forced to react to a looming catastrophe.

Hive Fleet Kronos appears to be the Hive Mind’s first solution. This new terror is tracing a coreward path along the line of the Great Rift. Tendrils of Leviathan have diverted from their original course, leaving behind defenceless worlds for Kronos to consume. It uses such offerings well. Thenascent hive fleet appears to be zeroing in on areas of intense psychic activity that threaten to tear the breach between realities wider. Scores of planets conquered by Chaos-worshipping cultists and warp-spawned abominations have fallen in its path, and Kronos has obliterated them all, like a maggot eating the corruption from an infected wound.

8th edition tyranid codex wrote:Indeed, the vast quantities of biomass that the war has generated are already being put to use by the Hive Mind. Having already consumed the resources necessary to power its inexorable push towards the galactic core, Leviathan has begun to leave prey worlds behind for the next wave of the Tyranid invasion to consume. These pre-digested planets provide essential feeding grounds for nascent hive fleets such as Hydra and Kronos.

Ahh that's great, thanks! I should have read my codex more thoroughly. I must have just skimmed it to get my Warrior army on the rable as quick as possible.

White Dwarf even published a Genestealer Chaos Cult army list.

It was a random roll to see what sort of Daemon possessed the Patriach. Might get a Great Unclean one...might get Nurglings.

IIRC the idea was that the Genestealers felt they needed help to overcome some issues they couldn't deal with themselves.

Genestealer Cult armies could ally with Chaos in the 2nd ed Tyranid codex. It's part of the game rules (army list building) rather than background per se, but those tend to be mixed together in GW publications.

2nd edition Codex Tyranids, page 73 wrote:The Tyranids themselves cannot be expected to help the Cult, in fact their arrival will signify the end of the Genestealer Cult as it is reabsorbed into the hive fleet. The only allies who will join with a Genestealer Cult are the forces of Chaos, who are all too willing to help others spread anarchy so that Chaos will ultimately triumph. The alliance of Genestealers and Chaos is at best fragile and will fly apart the instant that victory is in sight.

[emphasis added]

(also the 2nd ed Tyranid codex is the One True Codex and all else is heresy, so the fact that it hasn't been quoted in this thread yet is a sign of dire doctrinal deficiency and you all need to report for re-education ... except Hellebore, or maybe especially Hellebore )

Lets also not forget that in both cases "cult" is a generic term.

Chaos Cults come in many forms as do Genestealer Cults. The vast majority of their underlings and lower ranks don't even have a real clue what is actually going on at the top end. They are swept along - so its perfectly possible that lower ranks and minor leaders and remote operations of larger cults could indeed end up working together or having a mutual territory respect over a larger settlement.

Both could also attempt to use the other - working toward mutual goals that they couldn't achieve on their own with the end goal being one turning on the other. A rising tension as they get closer to the objective but also betraying each other.



Ultimately the final end-goal for either group is obliteration of the other; but there's a long way on the road toward that. Cults of both kinds can operate for generations before they get anywhere near to a state where they can start to envision their end-goal

Yea Overread's scenario is most likely I would say, two cults on an Imperial world fighting The Man, sometimes helping or hindering each other as they try to survive suppression by the authorities.
They probably wouldn't even realise that one worshiped Alien Gods and the other Warp Gods!

Maybe they would meet up at the annual cult jamboree and make sweet music together?

Doctrinally they are very different. GSC are ironically quite similar to Imperial cults: a glorification of self-sacrifice and duty, with a side dish of manifest destiny and ascension into the divine. GSC also tend have a very strong emphasis on an all-loving god, empathy and community.

Chaos meanwhile, well it is Chaos. A glorification of freedom, individual power and individual salvation (by sacrificing others) and even if dedicated to a particular god it still has the understanding there are a bunch of them around.

Even if they aren't truly aware of the difference in their respective deities, Chaos cults would see GSC as being not particular different from Imperial ones (just trade the corpse god with a xenos one) while GSC see Chaos cults as... well basically insane and highly dangerous.

I think GSC would see chaos cults as remarkably easy to infiltrate and use as a fall guy while they lurk in different shadows manipulating stuffs

Photos from Reddit:

beast_gts wrote:
Photos from Reddit:

I would love to own that cult flamer guy.

usmcmidn wrote:

I would love to own that cult flamer guy.

Looks like a pretty simple conversion on inspection. Chop off the front of it's autogun and replace it with a flamer nozzle. Then chop off the ammo magazine on the gun aand replace it with a flamer fuel tank. The rest of the model looks stock, all you gotta do is find one.

Rogue psyker with Khorne mark on head? Pardon?

 Gert wrote:
Tyranids can't consume Daemons so it stands to reason they couldn't do the same to a Daemon world

Except we know they either consume or destroy them from multiple sources, see second battle of Shadowbrink or fall of Forgefane. Both major corrupted strongholds of Chaos, then invaded/eaten by Tyranids, presumably still edible parts anyway.