Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2025/02/17 14:04:54
Subject: The problem of space marine protagonism being conflated with skill
Still not accounting for a smaller surface area meaning a greater force.
And a car going 45mph absolutely can go through a brick wall. I’ve worked in car insurance. I’ve seen evidence of a car at less than that speed going through a low perimeter wall, shunting two parked cars out the way, and ending up in someone’s front room.
Of course, anecdote is anecdotal, and not only is such an incident thankfully rare, you don’t tend to see the ones where the car bounced off.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Pressure, not force. You don't suddenly gain newtons just by using a small hammer. You do get more pressure though, as you are exerting more force over a small surface area.
The formula for pressure is Pressure = Force / Area.
Please note that this is for force applied to a perpendicular surface area, hence why sloped armour is better against piercing rounds, as it makes it harder to concentrate sufficient pressure to compromise the armour.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/02/17 15:05:11
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2025/02/17 14:48:28
Subject: The problem of space marine protagonism being conflated with skill
As I said there's probably walls they can smash through - badly made ones with small bricks mortared together probably. But It's also possible that they'd just wham into it and stop.
I've no problem with a Dread smashing through a wall, or a Powerfist that uses magic physics disrupting the structure enough to punch a huge hole in it, but smashing through a wall seems more like Dreadnaught/Carnifex level power than infantry trooper.
I suppose this is the sort of thing I'm talking about when I say these threads always leave me bemused.
If its a battlefield situation you could also argue that many of the buildings would be damaged by direct fire or indirect. Walls might well be unstable or weakened to start with.
Finally lets not forget they are wearing power-armour. So not only have you got mass and speed, but they could also apply increased force from the armour's own power aid. Their leading leg using pistons and such to apply even greater downward force to allow their upper body to apply more.
So Carnifexes and Tyranid Warriors should be going through walls like they're not even there, right?
Necron Immortals too? Ork Nobs? Necron Warriors are the same strength as a marine and made of ultra strong alloys - they're probably heavier than a marine in armour. Can they explode through walls?
Genetstealers?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/02/17 15:17:37
I think warriors and immortals should shoot through walls. Gauss weapons are supposed to disintegrate everything and had unique rules to reflect that before GW decided to just make them bolters.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2025/02/17 15:44:43
Subject: The problem of space marine protagonism being conflated with skill
I feel you need a certain amount of strength to hit the wall hard enough to go through - but then also armour not to be mangled in the process.
I mean Genestealers for example could clearly punch/rip their way through brick and even metal. But I think if they just run as fast as they can into a wall they going to wreck themselves even if the wall eventually comes down. Similar story for Nobs.
Tyranid Warriors are probably as capable as Marines.
Necron Immortals are probably marginal - while say Tomb Guard a clear yes. Necron Warriors I think are too spindly in the current imagination. They could probably claw their way through a wall given some time - but if they jus try to charge into it they are going to lose limbs.
2025/02/17 16:42:28
Subject: The problem of space marine protagonism being conflated with skill
Also speed. Immortal? I’d agree with a “possibly”. Necron Warrior? They just don’t strike me as fast moving enough to get the speed yup.
Tyranid Warrior? Pretty sure it could.
Remember, in my hypothesis I’ve relied not just on raw strength, but that Marines can run at a speed sufficient to really increase that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, there’s a difference between just smashing straight through a wall, and being able to demolish it in a number of blows.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/02/17 16:44:15
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
A brick wall isn't stopping a car at high speeds. A concrete wall might stop a car but depends on how thick it is (and most house walls aren't thick enough even when made of concrete).
Mind you a Space Marine bursting through a wall is silly because the Marine has no way to know how the wall will collapse and might suffer minor damage to his equipment or even trip.
Even tanks prefer to avoid walls that they can on paper easily run over as they risk equipment damage and can even get stuck.
2025/02/17 16:53:16
Subject: The problem of space marine protagonism being conflated with skill
Da Boss wrote: And the rest of my list? I agree Carnifexes should be able to smash through walls as I said in my first and second posts.
What about the rest?
Necron Immortals? Necron Warriors? Ork Nobs? Tyranid Warriors? Genestealers?
Am I to infer that by leaving these out you think they shouldn't be smashing through walls? I think it's interesting where we draw the line here.
Naw it just means that carny was quick to reply with
There's a LOT of bits to consider. The wall alone isn't a static concept to start with so first you've got to go not just "brick wall" but what kind etc...
Then condition of said brick wall
Then you've got the problem that the game is a gross simplification of reality and isn't based on any real simulated data. Heck we can't even agree on what a single model represents when we have debates on it. Is it 1:1; 1:10; 1:1000 - is it universally equal across all armies and units or does it vary. Eg is it 1:1 for marines but 1:1000 for gaunts 1:100 for Warriors and 1:1 for hive tyrants.
Even if its 1:1 you've got the simplification of reality where even two units with the same in-game strength value might have very different strength in reality. Not just in terms of raw power but in terms of dynamics and ability to apply and project that force. Plus the fact that the game stats might well represent ideal average so on "average" a marine might not go through a wall; but if they are going all out in the extreme they might be able to do it once. etc....
So there's a lot of bits that come into play plus the fact that the lore and our interpretation of it is coloured by visual and written references and themes. Eg the idea of a carnfiex bashing through a wall sounds good to us; a marine doing the same clearly sounds good to some and not good to others meanwhile I'd wager most of us would think it wrong for a gaunt to bash through a wall unless via sheer weight of numbers
1: Marines have always been the same speed as a regular human in game.
2: When the stats have allowed for it, Eldar, Genestealers, etc have always been faster than Marines. So how fast are they, if the Marines are already capable of 45mph?
Now I get the abstractions for the tabletop muddy things, the presented relationships with other units are still important to heed, imo.
In general I prefer the idea that Marines aren't really that much faster than a person, but rather their superhuman ability is to maintain that speed far, far longer than a human could. That can already be a very valuable ability without requiring the speed of, say, horses.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2025/02/17 17:51:12
Lathe Biosas wrote: All this talk of busting through brick walls has made me wonder how strong the Kool-Aid Man truly is.
And the Kool-Aid man is an animated glass pitcher, so how does he not smash himself in the process?
Probably a powerfield similar to powerfist. Crossover confirmed.
Here's the math/reasoning for Operation: Kool-Aid
Spoiler:
How Strong Would He Need to Be?
Imagine the Kool-Aid Man as a large glass pitcher filled with delicious red Kool-Aid. This perspective actually refines our thought experiment, because now we have two distinct components to consider: the glass pitcher (the container) and the liquid inside.charging at a building wall. In order to break through a typical brick or concrete wall, he’d have to deliver an impact force that exceeds the material’s compressive and tensile strength. Here are some points to imagine:
• A rough analogy is with a high-velocity impact such as meteorite strikes — though the Kool-Aid Man wouldn’t have the mass of a meteorite, the concept is similar: he must provide enough energy to overcome the “failure stress” of the wall material. For instance, a concrete wall might fail with stresses on the order of 20–40 megapascals. Of course, an exact number would be speculative, but think in terms of delivering forces in the tens of millions of newtons over a very short duration.
Impact Forces and Kinetic Energy
Imagine the pitcher barreling toward a solid wall. To break through the wall (and do it in one dramatic burst), the pitcher must generate enough kinetic energy upon impact to exceed the structural strength of the wall. Here’s a simplified picture:
• Kinetic Energy (KE) is given by ½mv². Even for a moderately heavy and fast-moving glass pitcher, you’d need a very short impact duration (Δt) to generate the high forces necessary to break through a material such as reinforced concrete or brick.
• The instantaneous force depends on how quickly the momentum is changed on impact. If the pitcher’s momentum changes from mv to 0 in a fraction of a second, the force, F = Δp/Δt, could be enormous.
• That said, breaking through a wall involves both compressive and shear forces. Typical concrete can handle compressive stresses of roughly 20–40 megapascals; so you’d want the impact’s pressure (force per unit area) to exceed that limit locally.
Thus, even as a glass pitcher, our Kool-Aid Man would have to be moving with tremendous kinetic energy. To “smash” through a wall in one hit, the Kool-Aid Man might need to generate forces equivalent to, say, a few hundred kilotons of TNT—though our character’s mass is far less than what would normally be invoked in such explosive energy. This suggests that his motion would have to be incredibly high-energy. In short, he’d be part superhuman, part living kinetic bomb.
─────────────────────────────
The Glass Pitcher Dilemma
Now, let’s consider the container: a glass pitcher. In the real world, glass is notoriously strong under compression but weak under tension or impact—especially if it’s not engineered for high-impact applications. Here’s what we’d need to consider:
• Glass Strength: Ordinary glass (like that used in windows or glassware) can be brittle. However, there are formulations like tempered or laminated glass that are more resistant to impact. Tempered glass, for example, has greater impact resistance due to its internal stresses, though it still shatters once its threshold is exceeded.
• Design Consideration: For our wall-smashing character not to break apart upon impact (or at least not before delivering his punch), the glass might need to be of a specially engineered variety. Think of it as an “ultra-tough reinforced glass” or even a transparent composite material that retains a glassy look but has a dramatically increased fracture toughness.
• Fracture Toughness: In materials science, fracture toughness (K_IC) describes a material’s ability to resist crack propagation. To survive an impact robustly yet still shatter the opposing wall, the pitcher would need a K_IC high enough to prevent immediate self-destruction.
• Structural Reinforcement: Another avenue is a design that includes internal reinforcement—perhaps a network of fine, nearly invisible fibers (like glass fibers in fiberglass) or nano-scale reinforcements. This would maintain the clear, “glass pitcher” aesthetic while dramatically boosting resilience.
─────────────────────────────
Interaction Between Container and Liquid
The red Kool-Aid inside is a fluid, meaning that upon impact, its inertia will interact with the dynamics of the container. Two aspects are worth mentioning:
• Sloshing: When the pitcher hits the wall suddenly, the liquid will continue moving until the container’s walls force it to decelerate, leading to sloshing. This can increase stresses on the container walls if the liquid mass is significant in comparison to the pitcher’s mass.
• Internal Damping: Conversely, a fluid can help absorb some energy through internal friction, which might distribute stresses more evenly along the container. In a carefully engineered scenario, the properties of Kool-Aid (its density, viscosity, and surface tension) could contribute marginally to the overall impact behavior.
─────────────────────────────
Conclusion
So, to answer your question within this refined scenario:
• For a glass pitcher (filled with red Kool-Aid) to smash through building walls, it must be moving with an extremely high kinetic energy that converts into immense impact force over a very short time interval. The speeds and masses involved would be in the realm of cartoon physics, where energy flux is high enough to exceed the structural limits of conventional building materials.
• The glass pitcher would likely need to be made of an ultra-tough, reinforced, and possibly composite form of glass—a material that combines the transparency and aesthetic of regular glass with advanced treatments (tempering, fiber-reinforcement, or nano-engineered modifications) that grant it exceptional fracture toughness. This ensures that it can deliver its wall-shattering impact without simply disintegrating upon contact.
In short, our Kool-Aid Man-as-a-glass-pitcher would be a marvel of cartoon engineering—a masterful balance of extreme kinetic energy and advanced material science to allow him to both survive and inflict colossal impact forces on architectural structures!
Which brings me to the most bizarre concept I have ever contemplated: Could a Space Marine withstand the charge of the Kool-Aid Man?
Spoiler:
Ok. Here's an answer to a hypothetical scenario contrasting the cartoon physics of the Kool-Aid Man with the superhuman durability and heavy weaponry of a Space Marine.
─────────────────────────────
The Character Profiles
• Kool-Aid Man: In our scenario, imagine him as a gigantic, ultra-tough glass pitcher filled with red Kool-Aid—a being whose kinetic energy and impact force defy conventional physics. His charge is cinematic, designed to smash through solid walls with cartoonish exaggeration.
• Space Marine: A genetically enhanced super-soldier clad in the iconic, power-armored exoskeleton. These warriors are built to handle devastating impacts, firepower, and close-quarters combat with technology that lets them shrug off blows that would be fatal for ordinary humans. Their armor (for example, the iconic Power Armor: the Tactical, Terminator, or Assault variants) is built from advanced alloys and energy-dispersing materials and is backed by cybernetic enhancements and personal shields (in some cases).
─────────────────────────────
The Collision of Cartoon and Grimdark
If the Kool-Aid Man charged a Space Marine, several factors come into play:
• Massive Kinetic Energy vs. Superhuman Toughness:
The Kool-Aid Man’s charge is essentially a burst of cartoonish, over-the-top energy. In his world, he might demolish buildings without so much as a scratch on himself—essentially a physics-defying, narrative exaggeration.
A Space Marine, however, is designed to withstand tremendous forces—from explosion blasts, heavy caliber impacts, and even impacts from massive war machines. Their armor is engineered to disperse shock and absorb energy.
• Impact Dynamics:
The Kool-Aid Man’s impact with a Space Marine would involve a sudden collision—transferring a large amount of momentum over a very short duration. Depending on his speed and mass, this could result in an incredibly high instantaneous force.
That being said, Space Marine power armor and enhanced musculature (enhanced reflexes, reinforced tendons, and bio-engineered physiology) could likely mitigate a large fraction of the impact energy. Even if the armor suffers localized damage (or in grimdark lore, battle scars), the Space Marine’s resilience and determination often let him keep fighting.
• Cartoon Physics vs. Warhammer 40K Reality:
The Kool-Aid Man operates in a realm of cartoon physics where narrative convenience often overrules realistic consequences. His impact might ruffle a Space Marine’s power armor in a visually spectacular way, but in a traditional Warhammer setting—a universe filled with titanic weapons, brute force, and cosmic horrors—the Space Marine is built to survive far worse blows.
Essentially, if you fuse the two aesthetics, the result would be: the Kool-Aid Man might momentarily send a Space Marine flying or momentarily stagger him, but it’s unlikely that a Space Marine would be outright obliterated by a single charge. Their armor, combined with their regenerative and augmented capacities, would probably allow the Marine to continue fighting—perhaps with a dented armor and a re-evaluated approach to facing such oddball attacks.
─────────────────────────────
Conclusion
While the Kool-Aid Man’s impact is undeniably massive in the realm of cartoon physics, a Space Marine’s design in Warhammer 40,000 is meant to endure apocalyptic levels of punishment. In a direct head-on collision, it’s likely that:
• The Space Marine might take severe damage or be knocked off balance for a moment—the kind of dramatic, gritty effect you'd expect in a Warhammer battle scene.
• However, thanks to his power armor and bio-enhancements, the Marine would most likely survive the assault, albeit with a great story (and possibly a dented helmet) to tell.
So, in this clash of over-the-top fictional physics versus grimdark super-soldiers, the Space Marine would stand, scarred but still very much in the fight—even against the mighty charge of the Kool-Aid Man!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2025/02/17 18:37:22
BorderCountess wrote: Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
Necron Warriors, Immortals and Nobs have always been modelled as moving as fast as a space marine, marines have never been shown in the rules to be faster than them.
Whereas Genestealers have been at least 50% faster than them in most rulesets. So can Genestealers run at nearly 70mph?
This is what Hellebore is talking about. The Marines are given special exceptions and people are reluctantly admitting that the elites of other armies MIGHT be able to do SOME of those things that a basic marine can apparently do.
I mean I think it's plainly outrageous to suggest that a Marine can smash through a wall casually. Drywall, half collapsed wall, fine. Fully intact wall? Come on. If basic Marines can do that there are so many other units in 40K that can do so and more, that it becomes ludicrous. It's much more reasonable to think that maybe that background is being exaggerated to make Marines look cooler and the reality is less extreme.
But as I often end up saying in these debates, that ship has likely sailed.
The background has given us lots of stuff on Marines. Other things? Not as much.
Can a Genestealer hit 70mph? Quite possibly. Their body is fundamentally unnatural, being artificially evolved. We know they can squeeze through gaps you might not believe. And, as a predator species I don’t see why they couldn’t hit at 70mph, even if only for a short burst. Cheetahs can manage 110kph after all, and they’ve evolved naturally.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
If anything a regular gaunt should be able to hit cheetah speeds too. Hormagaunts faster and sustained
Again the game doesn't equal the lore in any way shape nor form. You see this even in historical games where even they have to simplify things for the sake of simulation.
Can a mortar unit take out a tank in a tabletop wargame at point blank range - probably not. Can 1 guy handhold a mortar to take out multiple tanks at close range in battle - yes (sorry can't find the right wiki referencing the guy who did it - I believe he was American in WW 2)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2025/02/17 19:23:25
I like to use the game as a frame of reference, rather than hard number. A Bolter is stronger than a lasgun but not that much better than a shootah. Carapace armor can somewhat reliably protect you from a lot of weapons that would pierce flak. Space Marines can survive a lot of small arms fire but they're not invincible against them, stuff like that.
Though the change from AP to modifiers makes that a bit of a mess, amongst other things.
Yeah I think the change to AP actually made weapons less varied rather than more.
When they got rid of the old AP system they also got rid of a bunch of rules that differentiated those weapon systems from other other weapon systems.
It also narrowed the design space, imo, because a -1 to your saves when saves already go from 2+ to 6+ is already pretty powerful, so you can't really do anything mechanically interesting to improve them.
It would be fine if armour saves can go up to high levels (like a -3+ save on a vehicle), but they don't so a -1 modifier will always result in a 20% decrease in armour effectiveness, as armour saves basically go from 2-6 due to that silly nat one always fails rule. That rule is fine in DnD because that system is based on a D20, not so much for a D6 system game.
It almost means that to compensate GW had to come up with convoluted ways to increase resilience, such as even more invuls, rerolls, different flavors of FNP and caps to how many wounds a model can take in a turn. This all slows down the game and makes it clunky and hard to translate into fluff.
I think GW needs to get over their fear of "unwoundable" units. It's ok if a lasgun never has a chance to kill a dreadnought, that's what lascannons are for.
I'd rather fight against a model that I know that I need specialized weapons to hurt than a model that has a 1% chance to be wounded by any weapon I have because of rerollable 2+ invuls followed by FNP or something obscene like that.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2025/02/17 20:17:18
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2025/02/17 20:33:55
Subject: The problem of space marine protagonism being conflated with skill
We're talking about guys who probably weigh close to a tonne sprinting 150% as fast as elite sprinters. Running AS fast as a sprinter at that size would already be impressive, running so much faster is just ridiculous.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It’s the background, isn’t it. And it’s both. Fast, and able to maintain that speed for an unnaturally long time.
The game stats can’t really be used as a guide or limitation on the background.
Which background is it though? Because some of it is highly suspect. Many cases are clearly exaggeration. Many cases are authors not understanding numbers. And many cases are improbable but possible, but then extrapolated by readers to mean "always" or "often".
The game stats are also flawed from abstractions and edition changes, but one thing they offer over much of the lore is fewer biases because rather than a single author trying to tell a story, two parties are effectively negotiating over a scenario.
And game stats/effects aren't always consistent either. But when they've been consistent for years, surviving big edition changes and shifts, then that's something worth paying close attention to.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/02/17 21:03:32
Lathe Biosas wrote: All this talk of busting through brick walls has made me wonder how strong the Kool-Aid Man truly is.
And the Kool-Aid man is an animated glass pitcher, so how does he not smash himself in the process?
Probably a powerfield similar to powerfist. Crossover confirmed.
Here's the math/reasoning for Operation: Kool-Aid
Spoiler:
How Strong Would He Need to Be?
Imagine the Kool-Aid Man as a large glass pitcher filled with delicious red Kool-Aid. This perspective actually refines our thought experiment, because now we have two distinct components to consider: the glass pitcher (the container) and the liquid inside.charging at a building wall. In order to break through a typical brick or concrete wall, he’d have to deliver an impact force that exceeds the material’s compressive and tensile strength. Here are some points to imagine:
• A rough analogy is with a high-velocity impact such as meteorite strikes — though the Kool-Aid Man wouldn’t have the mass of a meteorite, the concept is similar: he must provide enough energy to overcome the “failure stress” of the wall material. For instance, a concrete wall might fail with stresses on the order of 20–40 megapascals. Of course, an exact number would be speculative, but think in terms of delivering forces in the tens of millions of newtons over a very short duration.
Impact Forces and Kinetic Energy
Imagine the pitcher barreling toward a solid wall. To break through the wall (and do it in one dramatic burst), the pitcher must generate enough kinetic energy upon impact to exceed the structural strength of the wall. Here’s a simplified picture:
• Kinetic Energy (KE) is given by ½mv². Even for a moderately heavy and fast-moving glass pitcher, you’d need a very short impact duration (Δt) to generate the high forces necessary to break through a material such as reinforced concrete or brick.
• The instantaneous force depends on how quickly the momentum is changed on impact. If the pitcher’s momentum changes from mv to 0 in a fraction of a second, the force, F = Δp/Δt, could be enormous.
• That said, breaking through a wall involves both compressive and shear forces. Typical concrete can handle compressive stresses of roughly 20–40 megapascals; so you’d want the impact’s pressure (force per unit area) to exceed that limit locally.
Thus, even as a glass pitcher, our Kool-Aid Man would have to be moving with tremendous kinetic energy. To “smash” through a wall in one hit, the Kool-Aid Man might need to generate forces equivalent to, say, a few hundred kilotons of TNT—though our character’s mass is far less than what would normally be invoked in such explosive energy. This suggests that his motion would have to be incredibly high-energy. In short, he’d be part superhuman, part living kinetic bomb.
─────────────────────────────
The Glass Pitcher Dilemma
Now, let’s consider the container: a glass pitcher. In the real world, glass is notoriously strong under compression but weak under tension or impact—especially if it’s not engineered for high-impact applications. Here’s what we’d need to consider:
• Glass Strength: Ordinary glass (like that used in windows or glassware) can be brittle. However, there are formulations like tempered or laminated glass that are more resistant to impact. Tempered glass, for example, has greater impact resistance due to its internal stresses, though it still shatters once its threshold is exceeded.
• Design Consideration: For our wall-smashing character not to break apart upon impact (or at least not before delivering his punch), the glass might need to be of a specially engineered variety. Think of it as an “ultra-tough reinforced glass” or even a transparent composite material that retains a glassy look but has a dramatically increased fracture toughness.
• Fracture Toughness: In materials science, fracture toughness (K_IC) describes a material’s ability to resist crack propagation. To survive an impact robustly yet still shatter the opposing wall, the pitcher would need a K_IC high enough to prevent immediate self-destruction.
• Structural Reinforcement: Another avenue is a design that includes internal reinforcement—perhaps a network of fine, nearly invisible fibers (like glass fibers in fiberglass) or nano-scale reinforcements. This would maintain the clear, “glass pitcher” aesthetic while dramatically boosting resilience.
─────────────────────────────
Interaction Between Container and Liquid
The red Kool-Aid inside is a fluid, meaning that upon impact, its inertia will interact with the dynamics of the container. Two aspects are worth mentioning:
• Sloshing: When the pitcher hits the wall suddenly, the liquid will continue moving until the container’s walls force it to decelerate, leading to sloshing. This can increase stresses on the container walls if the liquid mass is significant in comparison to the pitcher’s mass.
• Internal Damping: Conversely, a fluid can help absorb some energy through internal friction, which might distribute stresses more evenly along the container. In a carefully engineered scenario, the properties of Kool-Aid (its density, viscosity, and surface tension) could contribute marginally to the overall impact behavior.
─────────────────────────────
Conclusion
So, to answer your question within this refined scenario:
• For a glass pitcher (filled with red Kool-Aid) to smash through building walls, it must be moving with an extremely high kinetic energy that converts into immense impact force over a very short time interval. The speeds and masses involved would be in the realm of cartoon physics, where energy flux is high enough to exceed the structural limits of conventional building materials.
• The glass pitcher would likely need to be made of an ultra-tough, reinforced, and possibly composite form of glass—a material that combines the transparency and aesthetic of regular glass with advanced treatments (tempering, fiber-reinforcement, or nano-engineered modifications) that grant it exceptional fracture toughness. This ensures that it can deliver its wall-shattering impact without simply disintegrating upon contact.
In short, our Kool-Aid Man-as-a-glass-pitcher would be a marvel of cartoon engineering—a masterful balance of extreme kinetic energy and advanced material science to allow him to both survive and inflict colossal impact forces on architectural structures!
Which brings me to the most bizarre concept I have ever contemplated: Could a Space Marine withstand the charge of the Kool-Aid Man?
Spoiler:
Ok. Here's an answer to a hypothetical scenario contrasting the cartoon physics of the Kool-Aid Man with the superhuman durability and heavy weaponry of a Space Marine.
─────────────────────────────
The Character Profiles
• Kool-Aid Man: In our scenario, imagine him as a gigantic, ultra-tough glass pitcher filled with red Kool-Aid—a being whose kinetic energy and impact force defy conventional physics. His charge is cinematic, designed to smash through solid walls with cartoonish exaggeration.
• Space Marine: A genetically enhanced super-soldier clad in the iconic, power-armored exoskeleton. These warriors are built to handle devastating impacts, firepower, and close-quarters combat with technology that lets them shrug off blows that would be fatal for ordinary humans. Their armor (for example, the iconic Power Armor: the Tactical, Terminator, or Assault variants) is built from advanced alloys and energy-dispersing materials and is backed by cybernetic enhancements and personal shields (in some cases).
─────────────────────────────
The Collision of Cartoon and Grimdark
If the Kool-Aid Man charged a Space Marine, several factors come into play:
• Massive Kinetic Energy vs. Superhuman Toughness:
The Kool-Aid Man’s charge is essentially a burst of cartoonish, over-the-top energy. In his world, he might demolish buildings without so much as a scratch on himself—essentially a physics-defying, narrative exaggeration.
A Space Marine, however, is designed to withstand tremendous forces—from explosion blasts, heavy caliber impacts, and even impacts from massive war machines. Their armor is engineered to disperse shock and absorb energy.
• Impact Dynamics:
The Kool-Aid Man’s impact with a Space Marine would involve a sudden collision—transferring a large amount of momentum over a very short duration. Depending on his speed and mass, this could result in an incredibly high instantaneous force.
That being said, Space Marine power armor and enhanced musculature (enhanced reflexes, reinforced tendons, and bio-engineered physiology) could likely mitigate a large fraction of the impact energy. Even if the armor suffers localized damage (or in grimdark lore, battle scars), the Space Marine’s resilience and determination often let him keep fighting.
• Cartoon Physics vs. Warhammer 40K Reality:
The Kool-Aid Man operates in a realm of cartoon physics where narrative convenience often overrules realistic consequences. His impact might ruffle a Space Marine’s power armor in a visually spectacular way, but in a traditional Warhammer setting—a universe filled with titanic weapons, brute force, and cosmic horrors—the Space Marine is built to survive far worse blows.
Essentially, if you fuse the two aesthetics, the result would be: the Kool-Aid Man might momentarily send a Space Marine flying or momentarily stagger him, but it’s unlikely that a Space Marine would be outright obliterated by a single charge. Their armor, combined with their regenerative and augmented capacities, would probably allow the Marine to continue fighting—perhaps with a dented armor and a re-evaluated approach to facing such oddball attacks.
─────────────────────────────
Conclusion
While the Kool-Aid Man’s impact is undeniably massive in the realm of cartoon physics, a Space Marine’s design in Warhammer 40,000 is meant to endure apocalyptic levels of punishment. In a direct head-on collision, it’s likely that:
• The Space Marine might take severe damage or be knocked off balance for a moment—the kind of dramatic, gritty effect you'd expect in a Warhammer battle scene.
• However, thanks to his power armor and bio-enhancements, the Marine would most likely survive the assault, albeit with a great story (and possibly a dented helmet) to tell.
So, in this clash of over-the-top fictional physics versus grimdark super-soldiers, the Space Marine would stand, scarred but still very much in the fight—even against the mighty charge of the Kool-Aid Man!
Yeah. Thats where the figure came from? Given space magic gene wizardry and techno speed boost armour, I don’t think that’s an inherently ludicrous speed.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
~4100
~1660
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
4k 
4k Points
Competition Index
Member of 
DKoK Blog:
Have a look, I guarantee you will not see greyer armies, EVER! Now with at least 4 shades of grey
