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Let's say a Space Marine's accumulated injuries make him the weak link of his squad, without being severe enough to put him in a dreadnought. Or he is simply growing weary of war after centuries of it. But of course, being a well-indoctrinated soldier of the Emperor, he wishes to continue serving the Imperium in any way he can.

Are there non-combat positions such a Space Marine can take outside his chapter? Say, an expert on aliens for the Ordo Xenos or on a Rogue Trader ship. Or a teacher/drill abbot at the Schola Progenium or some other military academy.

Arguably, an advisory position would be a far better use of an old Space Marine's vast military experience than sending him to combat until the day he dies.

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And interesting question, and I’d guess at least part of the answer may depend on the Chapter.

Space Wolves, being coded as Norsemen may rather go on a glory hunt, to die as glorious and worthy a death as they can.

Ultramarines may be more pragmatic, and assign such a Brother to one of the 500 Worlds as a liaison officer, someone to help oversee recruitment and training of the PDF and what have you. Just because you’re not quite combat effective enough doesn’t mean you can’t be of great service to the Chapter.

These are just clear examples reflecting archetypes and that - they’re not quoting known instances.

Astartes don't really get that luxury.

If an Astartes is too damaged to the point where they are a danger to their brothers then they will be given the Emperor's Peace, and the chances are the Astartes in question will likely request this long before they get it forced upon them to spare them any dishonour.

The Salamanders specifically have a rite where an older Astartes will leave the Fortress Monastery and wander into the wilds of Nocturne to die in the wastes rather than risk further harm to their brothers.

I always thought they'd end up as pilots/drivers for the vehicles?

In the Iron Snakes novels there is a wheelchair bound astartes that serves as some form of castellan on the chapter homeworld.

And I think there was a HH short story with two debilitated space marines? I believe they served as inter-force delegates.

It's rare, but a few writers have thought it would be an interesting idea.

The BFG rulebook has an explicit reference to Marine training cadres being sent to a ship to help develop the crew. That would be the obvious best use of the experience and investment made into the individual marine, even if they were missing a beat or two on the battlefield.

I would say that any of the OP situations are feasible, provided its a degradation of physical abilities. Technically there might be pressure against making them permanent assignments, just because there is more usefulness in rotating that level of experience through as many organisations as possible, rather than babysitting juvies at the Schola.

However, even then, an assignment to a Rogue Trader due to contact or some kind of honour debt is likely to become effectively permanent if they tend to wander out in the darkness a lot.

Its also likely to be chapter specific as to the leeway with which marines could be assigned such roles. The Minotaurs probably have a very different world view than the Ultramarines.

Any sign of mental weakness is probably a death sentence, either because the Marine knows what's happening and signs up for increasingly dangerous duties to go out in glory and in the Emperor's Light, or the friendly neighbourhood Chaplain takes matters into his own hands for the good of the chapter.

And then there is always Heresy, with the Marine walking away from the Chapter and assigning himself as an "advisor" so some perosn or organisation.

As with all these genuinely interesting questions, it’s definitely best to keep in mind the Astartes aren’t monolithic.

Every Chapter, however Codex compliant, will have its own traditions and foibles. What makes sense to one, might be near heretical to the next. But, provided whatever “it” is acts in the ultimate best interests of the wider Imperium, there’s really nothing to enforce against it.

The only issue, background and lore wise, is inventing stuff for existing, well documented Chapters.

For Space Wolves? We already have Lone Wolves in the background, the sole survivor of a Pack becomes, well, a lone wolf, drawing whatever weapons they prefer from the wider armoury, seeking a glorious, honour redeeming death. So to suggest that, actually, Brother Fartnir Softpants instead requested assignment to help train the PDF of Softlandia, a distant, obscure planet half way across the Galaxy, in the finer points of Needlework (to use a deliberately silly example) just wouldn’t work.

But, a Lone Wolf requesting a small, warp capable craft so they can hunt down Captain Naughtyevilbadwrongun of The Incredibly Badly Behaved Marines renegades? Yeah. That seems possible.

A Dark Angel no longer sufficiently combat effective could do a Custodes type thing, venturing out into the wider Galaxy, all stealthy like, to try and pick up rumours of the Fallen - if they were deep enough into the secret circles.

A crippled Blood Angel may take on responsibility for maintaining the statues and other objet d’arts of a given Chapter hold. Not as an outright replacement for combat duties, but to put their skills to best use unless combat and the needs of the chapter dictate otherwise.

And so on and so forth.

Lots of good points raised already.

Short answer: we've seen marines assigned to less physically demanding duties such as overseeing new initiates, serving as an advisor to non-astartes allies, and commanding ships. So they could probably do that sort of thing.

But that said, being injured enough to be bad in a fight but not so injured that a dreadnaught is off the table is kind of a fine line. We know it's possible. There's the twisted up guy from the Black Legion, I think the main Alpha Legion ship guy in Harrowmaster was in a similar boat (pun not intended but embraced), etc. But between marine physiology, vat-grown organic limb replacements, and augmetics, it's kind of hard to do damage that is so severe it can't be entirely fixed but not so severe that the marine is just dead. Marines don't retire because their old bullet wounds act up during storms.

 tauist wrote:
I always thought they'd end up as pilots/drivers for the vehicles?

It would indeed make a lot of sense. Given the nature of a Space Marine's training and physical augmentations, it seems almost a waste to stick one in the driver's seat of a vehicle, unless he can no longer serve as an infantryman.

 Gert wrote:
If an Astartes is too damaged to the point where they are a danger to their brothers then they will be given the Emperor's Peace, and the chances are the Astartes in question will likely request this long before they get it forced upon them to spare them any dishonour.

The Salamanders specifically have a rite where an older Astartes will leave the Fortress Monastery and wander into the wilds of Nocturne to die in the wastes rather than risk further harm to their brothers.

Likely varies by chapter, but I think most Space Marines derive their sense of honor from doing their duty. And you can't do your duty if you're dead.

There's a big difference between sacrificing your life and committing suicide. Between martyrdom and taking the "easy way out". To many cultures, even those that don't value life for its own sake, suicide might be viewed as cowardly and selfish, especially if you are still able to serve in some capacity.

This could actually be an interesting theme for a short story that delves into Space Marines' purported lack of fear. They don't fear death, they don't fear pain... but do they fear indignity? Do they fear the idea of becoming "weak"? Do they fear having to reinvent themselves because they are no longer fit for a life of violence? If I wrote that story, it would involve a broken Space Marine who asks permission to die, but is firmly refused by his Chapter Master, who has correctly guessed that the Marine's longing for death comes from a place of fear rather than a desire to "not be a burden".

 Wyldhunt wrote:
But that said, being injured enough to be bad in a fight but not so injured that a dreadnaught is off the table is kind of a fine line. We know it's possible. There's the twisted up guy from the Black Legion, I think the main Alpha Legion ship guy in Harrowmaster was in a similar boat (pun not intended but embraced), etc. But between marine physiology, vat-grown organic limb replacements, and augmetics, it's kind of hard to do damage that is so severe it can't be entirely fixed but not so severe that the marine is just dead. Marines don't retire because their old bullet wounds act up during storms.

True. It would likely depend on some sort of cost-benefit analysis. If a Space Marine accumulates a lot of knowledge and experience over the course of a long career, there likely comes a point where retiring him (to avoid the loss of all that wisdom) is what best serves the Imperium... even though the Marine himself may not like it.

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The fine line is definitely something we need to consider.

Lufgt Huron is, to the best of my knowledge, the winner of ‘Survivor Of The Most Hideous Wounds Suffered By A Marine That Didn’t Mean Dreadnought” award. Half his body blasted away by a melta blast, and then reconstructed in bionics which, if anything, only made him more dangerous.

And like Orks, that’s solely down to their physical resilience. They just don’t seem to suffer Medical Shock as baseline humans do,

I don’t think Huron is necessarily singular in that regard - just the sole documented recipient of such medical care.

But again, it’s all going to come down to Chapter Tradition and Outlook.

Such a posting may be relatively temporary, whilst they adapt to their freshly replace limbs over 50 years, or a permanent “until we really need to bring you out of mothballs”. It may be seen a highly honourable, or a grievous slight.

What of members of the Deathwatch that through ill-fortune become the sole survivor of their Chapter, with the heinous event occuring on their journey back?

What of a squad that finds itself stranded on a backwater world, awaiting recovery by the main Chapter, only to find the peculiar nature of their environs entirely precludes long range, inter-planetary communication? What if that wasn’t previously an Imperial World, but through its rite of combat the Marines assumed control and achieved a form of compliance?

The Emperor's Peace isn't suicide though, it's an honourable death given to warriors who can't fight anymore.

As for fear of becoming weak, 100% this is something an Astartes fears. Getting too slow to fight, losing their edge in combat and missing a crucial detail that might lead to the death of their brothers.
Most don't get the chance of course but one of the few good bits of the Salamander's novels is an older Apothecary who has a crisis of faith and chooses to take the rite where they go to the wilds of Nocturne where he hopes to die an honourable death rather than risk failing in his role.

I recall seeing references to some Fallen deciding to retire and settle down (since they don't actively oppose the Imperium), but outside of that I've not heard of retired Astartes. I would assume in many cases they get asked to train aspirants and initiates.

Also, from a historical perspective?

As touched on above, dying of old age wasn’t a good thing for the Vikings.

But, another warrior culture, the Spartans, had staggering respect for the elderly, as they’d survived the life of a Spartan first.

And between those two, not necessarily historically accurate extremes, there’s a lot of wiggle room.

It may even depend on your standing within the Chapter.

If you’re a recent literal convert, and get blown up in your second battle, perhaps you’ll face different treatment to a Brother in similar physical impairment that has a couple of hundred years battlefield experience under his belt. And a Chapter Master who’s reactions have slowed to a Chapter Culturally unacceptable degree might have further alternative options open to them/

 Gert wrote:
The Emperor's Peace isn't suicide though, it's an honourable death given to warriors who can't fight anymore.

What makes it honorable, aside from Space Marines calling it so? In what way is death more honorable than service?

Honor, just like glory and fame, is ultimately a selfish aspiration. It's about getting others to perceive you positively, to speak well of you, to hold you up as an example. Seeking an honorable death, even at the expense of more constructive but less flashy ways to perform your duty, is a form of vanity.

But I'll grant you that this does fit the screwed-up values of the Imperium, and especially the Space Marines.

 BorderCountess wrote:
I recall seeing references to some Fallen deciding to retire and settle down (since they don't actively oppose the Imperium),

Oh, this is interesting. Good fodder for one of those John Wick style stories where a retired warrior is forced to take up arms again when his past catches up to him.

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The fact it's messed up is the point. A warrior who could be easily utilised in a non-combat role as an advisor, medic, mechanic or lore keeper isn't used because notions of warrior's honour are prized above utility and usefulness.

This is why I argue you’d need to justify it entirely based on Chapter.]

Some, such as the Flesh Tearers? Utter maniacs. Very nearly, but importantly not quite Hatstand to a man.

Rainbow Warriors? Well, nobody has gone into enough detail to rule it out.

And that’s of course not taking into account only a pretty tiny fraction of the 1,000 or so Chapters have defined fluff, and even then it’s to different degrees.

Going back to the original Deathwing, the Dark Angels squad effectively retires to rebuild the civilisation of the recruiting planet. They view their duty is to secure the planet for future generations of DAngles.

It will, as stated, depend on the chapter but I think that there are plenty of positions in their structures for experienced SM that are not battleline ready.

Pilots (assuming the controls go through their neural link like the armor and not by hand/foot), teachers, logistics, wardens, recruiters, honor guard, rear guard, etc...

Even a partially diminished marine is still powerful compared to most.

I think part of the issue might be how it's perceived by the SM (and the Chapter) though.

Luther and the Calibanite DAs definitely bristled at be sidelined to non-combat duties (maybe moreso because they weren't infirm?).

Some might accept their fate as an honorable way to still serve (somebody has to do it and why not free the able to go to the front), some might prefer to go out in a blaze.

If you look at the Astral Knights, they sent their entire chapter against the Necron World Engine, except for a dreadnought, some Neophytes and 30 battle-brothers.

The men who stayed behind were elder instructors and leaders of the next generation.

There will always be a rear guard of older Marines, who don't go out of the HQ.


Those that were left behind in the case of the Astral Knights, went to the stars on one last Crusade.

Thade (Dreadnought) - Brother Thade was a Dreadnought and the last Chapter Master of the all-but decimated Astral Knights Chapter. Following the death of the majority of his Chapter, who died heroically in the destruction of the Necron World Engine, Thade had been left behind at the Chapter's fortress-monastery as acting commander of the Chapter's thirty remaining battle-brothers and neophytes. To the honoured Ancient fell the onerous duty of surrendering his Chapter's fortress-monastery to the newly-founded Sable Swords Chapter, who had sent representatives to claim all of the Chapter's possessions on Obsidia. The ultimate fate of Brother Thade and his fellow Astartes is unknown, but Sable Swords Captain Daegan advised his fellow Astartes to embark upon an Imperial Crusade in order to spend the remainder of their lives fighting the enemies of the Imperium.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
If you look at the Astral Knights, they sent their entire chapter against the Necron World Engine, except for a dreadnought, some Neophytes and 30 battle-brothers.

The men who stayed behind were elder instructors and leaders of the next generation.

There will always be a rear guard of older Marines, who don't go out of the HQ.


Those that were left behind in the case of the Astral Knights, went to the stars on one last Crusade.

Thade (Dreadnought) - Brother Thade was a Dreadnought and the last Chapter Master of the all-but decimated Astral Knights Chapter. Following the death of the majority of his Chapter, who died heroically in the destruction of the Necron World Engine, Thade had been left behind at the Chapter's fortress-monastery as acting commander of the Chapter's thirty remaining battle-brothers and neophytes. To the honoured Ancient fell the onerous duty of surrendering his Chapter's fortress-monastery to the newly-founded Sable Swords Chapter, who had sent representatives to claim all of the Chapter's possessions on Obsidia. The ultimate fate of Brother Thade and his fellow Astartes is unknown, but Sable Swords Captain Daegan advised his fellow Astartes to embark upon an Imperial Crusade in order to spend the remainder of their lives fighting the enemies of the Imperium.

How the rearguard is handled varies from chapter to chapter though. Space Wolves, for instance, just have their companies take turns being on guard duty. It's not based on age or combat readiness or anything like that.