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I told GW that I wouldn't buy any of their books after the Death Guard NMNR fiasco, and I've stuck to that.

Any books which I get now are second hand just to fill in gaps in my older editions collections.

Used to love a new codex/army book but these days I agree with others there should be a cheaper rules only paperback option.

I would've saved some money had I bought the Custodes codex before buying models.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Here's the question of the moment. When a new codex is released for an army you play (or want to play), do you feel compelled to rush out and buy the book?

I will immediately buy the cards and book for my armies, but I'm down to two. My Chaos SM and Orks are retired. I'll probably sell them.

I have enough dice for my Black Templars, though. My knights are my own house, so I don't have dice for them.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Here's the question of the moment. When a new codex is released for an army you play (or want to play), do you feel compelled to rush out and buy the book?

Or do you feel like you can get all the information you need elsewhere and save the money for new dice/models/datacards/etc?

Considering in the store I play in using print outs or digital gets you asked to stop playing and leave, I would say rather crucial.

Karol wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Here's the question of the moment. When a new codex is released for an army you play (or want to play), do you feel compelled to rush out and buy the book?

Or do you feel like you can get all the information you need elsewhere and save the money for new dice/models/datacards/etc?

Considering in the store I play in using print outs or digital gets you asked to stop playing and leave, I would say rather crucial.

Wow, I've never heard of a place doing that.

If your rules are updated online, do you just have to show that you possess the old datacards or Codex and then use the updated stuff?

Seems rare for 40K, but with X-Wing people were often quite hostile if you just brought self-made cards and tokens and 3d printed ships, for example.

In MTG and such it's even worse, if you just print out the stuff instead of buying the original.


Depends on the community, I guess.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Seems rare for 40K, but with X-Wing people were often quite hostile if you just brought self-made cards and tokens and 3d printed ships, for example.

In MTG and such it's even worse, if you just print out the stuff instead of buying the original.


Depends on the community, I guess.

I remember a hostile parent at a MTG game (not a tourney mind you), where she found out that someone had printed off a card and slipped it into a sleeve so you couldn't really tell by looking at it.

She wanted the offender banned from future events and the store.

Another instance where I was glad I was just an Assistant Manager, where I was essentially Lassie. "Woof! Woof! I'll go get help!"

At the store, we didn't really enforce the rules of the game, we let local TOs do their thing. We were more worried about theft and the evil "unsupervised game store kid."

Karol wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Here's the question of the moment. When a new codex is released for an army you play (or want to play), do you feel compelled to rush out and buy the book?

Or do you feel like you can get all the information you need elsewhere and save the money for new dice/models/datacards/etc?

Considering in the store I play in using print outs or digital gets you asked to stop playing and leave, I would say rather crucial.

That would suck for Imperial Knight players as we still don't have a physical Codex (everything has to be a printout or digital).

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Here's the question of the moment. When a new codex is released for an army you play (or want to play), do you feel compelled to rush out and buy the book?

Or do you feel like you can get all the information you need elsewhere and save the money for new dice/models/datacards/etc?

Considering in the store I play in using print outs or digital gets you asked to stop playing and leave, I would say rather crucial.

That would suck for Imperial Knight players as we still don't have a physical Codex (everything has to be a printout or digital).

You DO have a pack of Index cards. You could track a set of those down.

Codex? HA! Worthless bundles of paper.
Lets see... what were the last few codexes i got...
Genestealer Cults codex... that was like 2017 or something. read it and set it down. A child scribbled all over it in permanent marker (not a problem as it was already obsolete by then).
Astra Militarum... Obsolete before i assembled the first model.
Votann... Obsolete before it arrived in the mail.
Codexes are pointless drivel. Waha is all that is needed.

Uptonius wrote:
Codex? HA! Worthless bundles of paper.
Lets see... what were the last few codexes i got...
Genestealer Cults codex... that was like 2017 or something. read it and set it down. A child scribbled all over it in permanent marker (not a problem as it was already obsolete by then).
Astra Militarum... Obsolete before i assembled the first model.
Votann... Obsolete before it arrived in the mail.
Codexes are pointless drivel. Waha is all that is needed.

Wahapedia is piracy. I assume the only reason GW hasn't been able to get it taken down is because it's in Russia and nobody there really seems to care.

These days, I may buy 3 of the 4 codexes per edition I have armies for.
If there were digital version, I'd buy them instead. I bought them from the first ePubs (Eldar Codex in 2013) until they stopped releasing them. I usually also bought the book version for whichever army I was playing most at that point.
So, I don't buy all the book-version codexes I could, but I do (when they release them) buy all of the relevant digital ones.

 vipoid wrote:
Put simply, every codex I've bought since 5th I've regretted buying.

This is broadly my take.

I've historically bought the DE codex every edition. But if that's finally released just in time for Christmas, presumably 6 months before 11th edition, I'm going to at least wait and see what that means.
I used to buy the codex as the first step when starting any other army - but its often turned out to just be a lot of waste paper.

I feel if you don't have a force of at least 1000 points that you are going to *regularly* put down on the table, the Codex really isn't worth it.

As you suggest, part of the issue is that so much of a codex is recycled. So the value proposition for veterans in the hobby is severely diminished.
I get lore... which is the same as the last book(s) barring maybe the odd paragraph. GW can't decide if they want to move the story forward, they get much hostility whenever they do, and ruthlessly a lot of them can't write so the new lore is almost always inferior to the old lore.
I might get one more drawing - of questionable quality. Some are okay, some are... yeah, early AI generation quality. Its not a value add in any case.
I'll get some photos of models GW painted 5-10-30 years ago, that have been documented in 2, 5, 10 previous books, a substantial number of which are scattered around my flat. Maybe if they did a whole new DE range this would be different - but if you are getting 1 new model you are out of luck.

I guess there's always a danger someone turns up at a store with the rules for [mega titan Xtreme!!!] - but the rules are so widely discussed (and without wanting to encourage piracy, a click away) that this feels like an issue from 20 years ago rather than 2025. To be fair I don't know the the specifics of every Eldar psychic power range. But if someone started claiming Intercessors have 3 wounds I'd raise an eyebrow.

 BorderCountess wrote:

Uptonius wrote:
Codex? HA! Worthless bundles of paper.
Lets see... what were the last few codexes i got...
Genestealer Cults codex... that was like 2017 or something. read it and set it down. A child scribbled all over it in permanent marker (not a problem as it was already obsolete by then).
Astra Militarum... Obsolete before i assembled the first model.
Votann... Obsolete before it arrived in the mail.
Codexes are pointless drivel. Waha is all that is needed.

Wahapedia is piracy. I assume the only reason GW hasn't been able to get it taken down is because it's in Russia and nobody there really seems to care.

Not really. You can't read the fluff or see any images and when you use the image feature it directs you to GW. That would be like saying I'm committing piracy for telling you the final score of a Patriots game.
Besides, when a company pirates Terminator, Starship Troopers, Dune, Gundam, Alien, Judge Dredd, and pretty much any other sci-fi/fantasy concept from 1950-2000, I dont think anyone should have issues with a few quoted numbers.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times... uh oh, I wasnt authorized to say the first line from that publication... I guess I'm a pirate now.

It does raise the question of "when does something become piracy".

I mean Waha seems to be towards the piracy end. But is this just become its convenient for the user? In a way that scouring through various fan websites and youtube videos, which will eventually reveal the same info, isn't?

I guess since GW now publish points for free there isn't the same issue - but the era of describing everything as "X Melta bombs" rather than just "its 25 points" felt very contrived.

We know GW intentionally tries to price people out of their models, but it doesn't work and they keep getting bought. Piracy is usually a delivery problem. Of that there's a score to say. Waha is partly responsible for the game retaining the player base it has. Removing dexs form the app because the book is released is a huge feels bad and another hurdle to understanding your opponents army. I'd rather have a book that is well thought out has 5+ fun ways to play my army and will be accurate for at least 6months then however you characterize their current service model. FOMO? Pay to win?

I mean I literally don't care and I would point anyone interested in the game towards Waha but it is piracy isn't it? Even if it's piracy we've decided we could morally justify it's still GW owned stuff being given out for free without permission. I'm not copyright lawyer but seems pretty open and shut to me? Again, not that I cared in the slightest, yo-ho-ho and all that.

For the most part I'd be happy to take the digital code out and toss the thing, but I'm also relatively happy to buy the book through my local game store to support them.

Uptonius wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

Uptonius wrote:
Codex? HA! Worthless bundles of paper.
Lets see... what were the last few codexes i got...
Genestealer Cults codex... that was like 2017 or something. read it and set it down. A child scribbled all over it in permanent marker (not a problem as it was already obsolete by then).
Astra Militarum... Obsolete before i assembled the first model.
Votann... Obsolete before it arrived in the mail.
Codexes are pointless drivel. Waha is all that is needed.

Wahapedia is piracy. I assume the only reason GW hasn't been able to get it taken down is because it's in Russia and nobody there really seems to care.

Not really. You can't read the fluff or see any images and when you use the image feature it directs you to GW.

You also can't get the fluff and (most) images from the datasheet cards. Argument invalid.

That would be like saying I'm committing piracy for telling you the final score of a Patriots game.

Technically correct, if you listen closely to the NFL's hurried disclaimer during the commercials, but practically unenforceable.

Besides, when a company pirates Terminator, Starship Troopers, Dune, Gundam, Alien, Judge Dredd, and pretty much any other sci-fi/fantasy concept from 1950-2000, I dont think anyone should have issues with a few quoted numbers.

These two things are NOT equal, and there's a massive argument about how much inspiration one can draw from another source before it becomes infringement. However, outright sharing copyrighted material IS piracy.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times... uh oh, I wasnt authorized to say the first line from that publication... I guess I'm a pirate now.

Everything Dickens ever wrote is in the public domain, so you're clear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skinnereal wrote:
These days, I may buy 3 of the 4 codexes per edition I have armies for.
If there were digital version, I'd buy them instead. I bought them from the first ePubs (Eldar Codex in 2013) until they stopped releasing them. I usually also bought the book version for whichever army I was playing most at that point.
So, I don't buy all the book-version codexes I could, but I do (when they release them) buy all of the relevant digital ones.

I can't imagine why they wouldn't keep doing epubs. Surely, if the point of churn-and-burn is to drive the sale of highly profitable books, selling digital books that cost GW almost nothing must be even more profitable, right?

I'm a collector so just like my music collection is all hard copy so are my 40K codexes, of course the nice thing about it is because we play house 5th ed i can pick out my favorite codexes to keep on hand, without having to keep getting new ones. some items i had to get digital just due to scarcity, but it is not my preference.

I'm not in the market for modern books. I think I shouldn't buy any more books at all, really. I've a shelf full of wargames books from out of print editions and I never really look at any of them. I just like having them there in case I ever might get back into them, but realistically the chances of me playing Mk2 Warmahordes again are near zero for example.

I'd still like to get my hands on a 4e 40K rulebook because it is my favourite one, but it's not a huge deal to me either. If GW ever republished the 4e book I would pick one up for sure.

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
These days, I may buy 3 of the 4 codexes per edition I have armies for.
If there were digital version, I'd buy them instead. I bought them from the first ePubs (Eldar Codex in 2013) until they stopped releasing them. I usually also bought the book version for whichever army I was playing most at that point.
So, I don't buy all the book-version codexes I could, but I do (when they release them) buy all of the relevant digital ones.

I can't imagine why they wouldn't keep doing epubs. Surely, if the point of churn-and-burn is to drive the sale of highly profitable books, selling digital books that cost GW almost nothing must be even more profitable, right?

Yeah, it seems like easy money. No need to print and ship books worldwide.
But, once it is in digital form, it is lost to the pirates, even the most casual ones. GW likes the iron grip, and doesn't seem to like leaving anything open to leakage.
At least they use their apps to update the rules these days.

Uptonius wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

Uptonius wrote:
Codex? HA! Worthless bundles of paper.
Lets see... what were the last few codexes i got...
Genestealer Cults codex... that was like 2017 or something. read it and set it down. A child scribbled all over it in permanent marker (not a problem as it was already obsolete by then).
Astra Militarum... Obsolete before i assembled the first model.
Votann... Obsolete before it arrived in the mail.
Codexes are pointless drivel. Waha is all that is needed.

Wahapedia is piracy. I assume the only reason GW hasn't been able to get it taken down is because it's in Russia and nobody there really seems to care.

Not really.

Yes, really. Wahapedia is blatant, obvious piracy. There's no grey area here. It's a direct copy of the rules text for every army in the game.

Uptonius wrote:
You can't read the fluff or see any images and when you use the image feature it directs you to GW. That would be like saying I'm committing piracy for telling you the final score of a Patriots game.

Wrong again. Sports scores are factual. You can't copyright them.

Uptonius wrote:
Besides, when a company pirates Terminator, Starship Troopers, Dune, Gundam, Alien, Judge Dredd, and pretty much any other sci-fi/fantasy concept from 1950-2000, I dont think anyone should have issues with a few quoted numbers.

Inspiration and piracy are two different things. There's often a grey area between and GW haven't always stayed on the right side of that but it's not as simple as you're making out.

Uptonius wrote:
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times... uh oh, I wasnt authorized to say the first line from that publication... I guess I'm a pirate now.

Nope. Copyright expires (usually 70 years after the author's death). In the case of Dickens anyone can print and publish his works and not get sued for copyright. That's why books like Dracula, or the complete works of Shakespeare are often so cheap compared to modern books - there's no author to pay so any sales are pure profit after the relatively modest cost of getting them printed.

I'd also add that I've played against people trying to use Waha as a Codex replacement and it was a miserable experience. That website is great for checking a rule every now and then, browsing through strats and so on, but it sucks for playing a game. While I really wish GW would provide a better digital rules source, especially for playing the actual game, in the meantime I find having a physical Codex to be superior for actually playing the game. I do wish they'd have more background info, especially new background info. I'm not sure if there's been any new background written for some of my armies in the lasst 10 years.

 Da Boss wrote:
I'm not in the market for modern books. I think I shouldn't buy any more books at all, really. I've a shelf full of wargames books from out of print editions and I never really look at any of them. I just like having them there in case I ever might get back into them, but realistically the chances of me playing Mk2 Warmahordes again are near zero for example.

I'd still like to get my hands on a 4e 40K rulebook because it is my favourite one, but it's not a huge deal to me either. If GW ever republished the 4e book I would pick one up for sure.

Yea the bookcase factor is a problem for me too, I read a lot of real books as well so I'm always struggling for space!
I definitely recommend giving some of your old codices a flick through again though, the artwork, background snippets and flavour text are all great to revisit in my experience. Even the 7th edition Ork Codex, which is far too recent for nostalgia to have misted one's eyes, is great for a re-read.

@Uptonius/ slipspace:

I won't "pirate" material while it's in print, but as soon as GW takes it off the market, I consider it fair game.

OK. I'm going to admit to looking at a smattering of less than legal sites, but only to look up armies I'm never going to play.

Just to see what their special rules/detachments are.

I can see that being "okay," but I could be wrong.

 BorderCountess wrote:

I can't imagine why they wouldn't keep doing epubs. Surely, if the point of churn-and-burn is to drive the sale of highly profitable books, selling digital books that cost GW almost nothing must be even more profitable, right?

Honestly, no and this assumption has actually cost a lot of companies dearly in recent years. The thing is, when selling mass market products, the important thing is having your product visible and available to potential new customers. Things like direct digital and other forms of direct sales make more money individually, but they mostly sell to the existing playerbase and generally only the more dedicated portion of it. Generally those sales are also the group that guarantees sales from the stores you supply to, which are also the places where your product is most visible. Those sales dry up because you start competing with them directly and they're less likely to continue stocking your product and pulling in new customers.

GW is arguably big enough where it could make the majority of its sales digitally, but the books aren't their main product. They really need to distribute the minis themselves and keeping their business partners happy and stocking minis is a big part of that. The books are a really reliable reoccurring sale to existing customers and go a long way towards keeping stores stocking GW product. That's what they're really all about.

No more codex for me thanks. Sick of the endless churn

Actually, this goes for all GW game books, they seem like a waste of money. I haven't got even a squad painted until the books are already "obsolete" and new ones have released in their place. From now on, I'll just buy the models bro

I love looking up a tomb to seek my ruling answers. While looking up a computer is overall more efficient, looking up on a book is a lot more fun, especially when its a hardcover. I tend to buy codexes on my bigger armies.