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Yes.

But!

Eldrad was able to sense the birth pangs of Slaanesh, and so helped (possibly founded? Not 100% on that) the Craftworld sub-society of Eldar, before Slaanesh fully came into being.

I propose that, on such an understanding, that’s where “The Emperor” is. An admittedly powerful, but not yet fully conscious Warp Enetity. A reflection of the mortal Emperor, but at least currently separate.

It's the same as Samus who terrorizing humans for aeons actually born a moment Loken were die.

The Emperor's Palace is built over Asia, I think ?
So the worst tactical blunder of the Heresy may have been to get involved in a land war in Asia.

Damn, that's true

CorwinB wrote:
The Emperor's Palace is built over Asia, I think ?
So the worst tactical blunder of the Heresy may have been to get involved in a land war in Asia.

I thought the Emperor's Palace was build in the UK, specifically with the Golden Throne in what is right now GW offices for the obvious meme.

Its been in the Himalayas for a while

Yup. Up and around Everest specifically I think?

Ferrus. I understand Istv 5 would have always been a poor outcome for the loyalists - If Ferrus would have taken the full Iron Hands with him - or at least waited until they were with him, a full other legion and one of the more deadly legions when it came to Marine vs Marine combat due to the utter cold logic, additionally, then if he would not have ultimately charged headlong, if he would have listened to Corax and utilised the RG in a role more attuned to their specialisms etc etc etc...

In terms of the ultimate fate of the loyalists, they would have been shattered, but they crucially may have been able to take a few key players off the Traitor board also.

Vulkan could not be taken off the table as many found out, Corax was the most likely Primarch to flee and survivie of any on that planet, so yeah Ferrus may have died anyway, but having his full legion, and being closer to the drop site, maybe the NL's would have been more contained, and so Conrad may not have been able to run to Lorgars rescue, maybe Sevetar would have died and thus the Thramus crusade was inneffective from the start at holding up the DA's.... And many many many other interactions could have played very differently...

Actually, after going through this, the blunder wasn't Ferrus', it was Dorns for putting such a pent up psycho in charge.

if he would not have ultimately charged headlong

Well, Fulgrim fixed this pretty well, to be honest.

Meme aside, that's a good take on the issue at hand.
I don't remember if Dorne actually put Ferrus in charge of the retaliation fleet ? Or if he bullied Corax and Vulkan into going first...
What I remember is Corax begging him to fall back and join with the other four Legions, which would have perhaps helped the Loyalists defend themselves more easily.

Or perhaps the biggest blunder (not tactical, though) was Dorne never envisioning there may have been more traitor Legions than just the ones at Istvaan...

I disagree on that. Having a larger force of Iron Hands present on Isstvan V would have changed nothing, seeing as the Traitor plan was for those forces to be there in the first place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CorwinB wrote:
Or perhaps the biggest blunder (not tactical, though) was Dorne never envisioning there may have been more traitor Legions than just the ones at Istvaan...

Considering he almost killed Garro when first confronted with Horus's betrayal. Then he imprisoned the entire crew of the Eisenstein, with only a select few ever going "free" until the Siege of Terra, not anticipating that Lorgar, Perturabo, and Alpharius were traitors is hardly a fair criticism.

They'd done nothing to arouse suspicion and had all been loyal to the Imperium and the Emperor. Perturabo, despite being a petulant child, was stalwartly loyal. Lorgar had recently proven his dedication to the Imperium by conquering hundreds of worlds and eradicating many Xenos threats. Alpharius was (as far as anyone could tell) a loyal soldier. Curze and the Night Lords were the one exception, but they were also one of the only Legions available and could also be relied on to punish traitors.

CorwinB wrote:

if he would not have ultimately charged headlong

Well, Fulgrim fixed this pretty well, to be honest.

Meme aside, that's a good take on the issue at hand.
I don't remember if Dorne actually put Ferrus in charge of the retaliation fleet ? Or if he bullied Corax and Vulkan into going first...
What I remember is Corax begging him to fall back and join with the other four Legions, which would have perhaps helped the Loyalists defend themselves more easily.

Or perhaps the biggest blunder (not tactical, though) was Dorne never envisioning there may have been more traitor Legions than just the ones at Istvaan...

Yeah of course, the NL's were already at risk of censure at the time, the secret AL being a part of that relief force also should have been treated with suspicion.

Another huger factor of IV5 is that the planet/system could have been simply blockaded, or if they were going to destroy the traitors, just let loose exterminatus on the planet, and shoot the survivors trying to escape.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Yeah of course, the NL's were already at risk of censure at the time, the secret AL being a part of that relief force also should have been treated with suspicion.

The Alpha Legion, who had done literally nothing to show disloyalty to the Emperor at all? The Alpha Legion that were considered loyal? The fact that they were sneaky and not well-liked doesn't make them Traitors.

Another huger factor of IV5 is that the planet/system could have been simply blockaded, or if they were going to destroy the traitors, just let loose exterminatus on the planet, and shoot the survivors trying to escape.

The goal of the loyalist forces wasn't to just atomise Horus and the Traitors, it was to capture/kill so they could face the Emperor's justice.
Bringing back their corpses would hardly have been possible if there were no corpses to bring back.
There's a reason Seal Team 6 was used to kill OBL, hard confirmation that the target is dead. If there was nothing to prove Horus had fallen, the legend and cause would go on and take forever to be rooted out. Generations later there would be uprisings against the Emperor claiming Horus was the true ruler of Mankind.