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Consider:

Eversor: psychotic explosive berserker.
Culexus: psychic torment nexus.
Callidus: shape-changing ninja.
Vindicare: pretty good with a gun.

The Lexicanum page is full of details that are supposed to show how cool Vincidare assasins are, but it really feels like they're grasping at straws to make something ordinary sound as interesting as their peers:

unflinchingly loyal to the Imperium ... trained to limit their vocabulary only to words that are useful for their profession ... cutting off all emotional attachments to other humans so that they will never hesitate to eliminate any target ... enables them to pick out a single target even amongst roving hordes of enemies on the battlefield ... have been known to wait in a position for as long as 6 years before taking a shot

Vindicares were designed late on a Friday afternoon when everyone wanted to just leave early. It is pretty funny I guess that a Vindicare literally does not know words unrelated to hiding in a bush and shooting a big rifle.

Well, you can’t have Assassins without a Sniper extraordinaire, can you?

And as the background shows, the Vindicare is the tool deployed before you need the others. A single shot can end a formenting rebellion in its tracks. Also handy when you want minimal collateral damage done - such as someone being an arse on an Imperial Planet.

They’re also damned handy as a massive force multiplier. Get them in position first, arrange your other forces, then stick one or three in the bonce of the Warboss/Farseer/Patriarch/Cult Leader/Exalted Champion. Soon as his job is done? The other forces apply the pressure to shatter the rest (at least, in theory. Everything is always in theory).

I don't dispute that a guy who shoots real well is a useful thing. There's a reason why real militaries have more snipers than berserkers or ninjas. But it's boring, which is the worst possible sin in Warhammer.

I can tell you've never read Assassinorum: Kingmaker.

Vindicare Assassins are really frigging cool. But have serious issues when trying to figure out how to assassinate people who won't leave their Knight Valiant suits.

 sigkill wrote:
I don't dispute that a guy who shoots real well is a useful thing. There's a reason why real militaries have more snipers than berserkers or ninjas. But it's boring, which is the worst possible sin in Warhammer.

Yeah. It's sensible and practical and makes perfect sense...
So it's entirely out of place in 40k.

The Exitus guns are also statement weapons.

No Needlegun here. These leave you about as dead as dead can be. Shield breaker first, just in case. Then either a Hellfire or Turbo Penetrator to really wreck your head in no uncertain terms.

After that? It’s the legging it to escape cleanly. Relying on the Exitus pistol to knack anyone between you and your extraction point. Lovely.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Exitus guns are also statement weapons.

No Needlegun here. These leave you about as dead as dead can be. Shield breaker first, just in case. Then either a Hellfire or Turbo Penetrator to really wreck your head in no uncertain terms.

After that? It’s the legging it to escape cleanly. Relying on the Exitus pistol to knack anyone between you and your extraction point. Lovely.

Yeah, it’s practical, efficient, relatively clean…
All that stuff 40k ain’t.

Things The Imperial Guard ain’t, sure.

But the other Assassins are also, in the context of the wider universe, practical, efficient and relatively clean.

Yes. Even the Eversor. Getting a single operative in amongst the enemy High Command, then ripping it out root and stem saves hundreds of thousands of Imperial Lives - potentially billions if it saves an entire planet.

The Culexus is absolutely ideal and super efficient where the foe is likely to have a high concentration of Psykers. Not just for taking them out? But for stopping them using their powers whilst the attack is underway.

The Callidus can spend loads of time intel gathering before striking, taking on multiple guises as they do so.

So…all four are in their own way highly efficient tools. Because Assassins of any stripe are meant to be highly efficient. That’s the whole point of them.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Exitus guns are also statement weapons.

No Needlegun here. These leave you about as dead as dead can be. Shield breaker first, just in case. Then either a Hellfire or Turbo Penetrator to really wreck your head in no uncertain terms.

After that? It’s the legging it to escape cleanly. Relying on the Exitus pistol to knack anyone between you and your extraction point. Lovely.

A Callidus assassin will shapeshift into the victim or a guard to sneak out, or use its sword made from dead star vampires to cut its way to freedom.

An Eversor will have left nothing alive, so there is no reason to hurry with the escape. Someone will be along to collect him. And in the off chance that the opposition is too strong, the Eversor will explode for a last chance at taking out the target.

The Culexus is a bit like the Eversor, except that it will have shredded minds instead of bodies.

To me this is a lot cooler than a fellow who is real good at his rifle, has a choice of a handful of bullets, and also is a good hand with a pistol! There is nothing in the description of the Vindicare that makes it sound particularly more interesting than any good sniper, except perhaps for those weird times they've spent years in the same location. And in those cases, some kind of Mechanicum sniper servitor would probably do as well (and would be more interesting).

I haven't read the Assassinorum book, so maybe I should do that before I further besmirch the honour of gun-man.

Among four Vindicar is only adequate one. Eversor - twisted murderous psychopath. Callidus is a guy? Or gal? They don't remember already. Culexus another kind of twisted hobo. Also killing someone from few miles away is cool even for 40k.

 kabaakaba wrote:
Among four Vindicar is only adequate one. Eversor - twisted murderous psychopath. Callidus is a guy? Or gal? They don't remember already. Culexus another kind of twisted hobo. Also killing someone from few miles away is cool even for 40k.

Eversor matches the Imperium pretty well.
Callidus is probably agender. Actually, I'd assume all Imperial Assassins are, after all the surgeries and hypno indoctrination.

I think Eversor is too much even for Imperium low standards... At least how it's described in HH books.

Callidus is literally genderfluid, on account of the polymorphine and all.

 sigkill wrote:
Callidus is literally genderfluid, on account of the polymorphine and all.

Genderfluid body.
I don't think they care about gender identity any more than what it takes to kill their target.

It’s established that the majority of Callidus Assassins are female recruits. Something about the female biology being more compatible with Polymorphine.

And I’ve not read anything to suggest a Callidus loses their sense of self either due to Polymorphine or their training.

 sigkill wrote:


Vindicares were designed late on a Friday afternoon when everyone wanted to just leave early. It is pretty funny I guess that a Vindicare literally does not know words unrelated to hiding in a bush and shooting a big rifle.

Hacktually, the vindicare was the first of the 4 assassins released in 2nd ed. It went, vindicare, callidus, eversor, culexus.

From a game perspective, characters have rarely carried ranged weapons that put them in more than the nuisance category. Pretty much only the Eldar exarch in 2nd ed could carry a heavy weapon.so giving them imperium a character that carries a long ranged lethal attack was pretty original.

Of the 4, the eversor is pretty standard 40k. Drug fuelled berserker is par for the course. The vindicare is a high tech assassin, with more gear and gizmos than most imperial factions.

The culexus and callidus are probably the most original concepts.

If you want a 40k spin on the sniper Concept, you read up on the Death Jester, no?

While I love the Vindicare in terms of model and background, I think my favourite 40k snipers are devastator marines with lascannon

I agree they could do with a splash of grimdark but I don’t think they are boring. There is some real imagination on how they do what they do - isn’t there a short on Warhammer + where a vindicare straps himself to the hull of a spaceship so he can shoot his target through a specific portal.

I’ve always thought of them as a sort of captain America style super soldier but programmed to be mechanical robocop style killer.

I don’t really like sniping on the tabletop any way but in the lore it makes perfect sense.

Real snipers use rhinos…

(Sorry, I know this is the background section, and not the rules section from how many editions ago)

Vindis are my favorite, but I’ll grant the most boring. Too normal in an abnormal world.

Vindicares do need something nasty about them like once a mission is complete they disintegrate themselves with a melta bomb to erase all evidence but the suicide assassin is already taken.

Or they make their bullets from their own bones

Hellfire shells are spectacularly nasty?

They don’t just snipe you in the bonce. They make you to into a fine red mist (Turbo Penetrator), or dissolve you into a virulent goo (Hellfire).

In short? They ensure you’re not just as dead as dead can be, but publicly and spectacularly ded. Ideal to shutdown an orator or other charismatic trouble maker. Can’t pretend they’re still alive when a Vinidcare has done its dirty work.

Sniper? Boring
Sniper whose synskin has chameleoline properties? less boring
Sniper whose spy mask can both scan infrared over long distances and tap into enemy communications? Pretty damn good
Sniper who can do all that while remaining utterly motionless for over a week? Actually pretty scary
Sniper who can do all that, take out multiple enemy commanders and evade Eldar scouts hunting for him? godlike

and that's without getting into the Exitus weaponry. Shieldbreaker ammo doesn't just bypass shields, it destroys them. Turbo-penetrator can defeat the heaviest infantry armour, and Hellfire can take down the toughest opponents - it doesn't matter whether you're shielded, armoured or just tough as hell, the Vindicare has a solution for taking you out.

Vindicares aren't boring, they are the most efficient, reliable and deadly assassins of them all.

Eversors aren't even technically assassins, they don't assassinate people, they are dropped like a bomb into an area and destroy everything in the vicinity

Callidus assassins are great at long-term engagements and getting close to people hidden in bunkers deep underground or those who are paranoid enough to surround themselves only with their closest advisors,m but they tend to be embedded deep into the enemy lines, it can take them weeks, months or years to get results

and Culexus assassins are abominations that had to be exiled to the edge of the galaxy because their presence on Terra was disrupting the astronomican.

The Vindicare? He's just a guy who goes out to where the enemy is going to be, takes them out with brutal efficiency and disappears before they can find him, ready for a new deployment. The Vindicare just works. Does the job with minimal collateral damage and gets the hell out of there, which is why they're in high demand

You don't have to be scared he's going to accidentally butcher your own troops or explode too nearby
You don't have to wait months for the outcome of their mission
You don't have to keep your psykers away from them or put up with the unnerving feeling that the thing you've sent out should not exist

You just designate a target, and the target goes away. The Vindicare isn't less interesting than the others, he is the most assassiny assassin

Exitus Acta Probat

 sigkill wrote:
have been known to wait in a position for as long as 6 years before taking a shot

What..... situation...... would possibly require this? Like... how do you get 6-year advance notice of where your target will be standing at a given time? And how is there no quicker and more reliable plan that can be enacted during those 6 years?

"Your target has just enrolled in grad school. This means he should be getting his PhD in about 6-7 years. The graduation ceremony is usually held in the football field, unless it's raining. Operative TH-891, go find a good vantage point and lie in wait."

.

All this talk of assassins and yet not even a mention of Venenum or Vanus.

The others are assassins, and very very good at killing, especially when public death is required. Covert death, however, is something the other clades can't do... but Venenum and Vanus can definitely do that. Not nearly wacky or over the top for 40k tabletop, but I like those two temples as examples for when the Imperium needs to pull some Eldrad level shenanigans.

-STS

-Guardsman- wrote:

 sigkill wrote:
have been known to wait in a position for as long as 6 years before taking a shot

What..... situation...... would possibly require this? Like... how do you get 6-year advance notice of where your target will be standing at a given time? And how is there no quicker and more reliable plan that can be enacted during those 6 years?

"Your target has just enrolled in grad school. This means he should be getting his PhD in about 6-7 years. The graduation ceremony is usually held in the football field, unless it's raining. Operative TH-891, go find a good vantage point and lie in wait."

.

6 years? Did they take 6 years of toilet rolls and tooth paste with them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

slade the sniper wrote:
All this talk of assassins and yet not even a mention of Venenum or Vanus.

The others are assassins, and very very good at killing, especially when public death is required. Covert death, however, is something the other clades can't do... but Venenum and Vanus can definitely do that. Not nearly wacky or over the top for 40k tabletop, but I like those two temples as examples for when the Imperium needs to pull some Eldrad level shenanigans.

-STS

Do these 2 assassin houses still exists, I thought the number dropped to 4 after the HH.

I’d be more interested to know how many imperial assassins are alpha legion sleeper agents

It’s been a while since I checked, but I thought the big 4 types of assassins were simply the largest groups, but by no means exclusive.

The Vanus temple isn't what you would call "front line". They can if they have to be but a Vanus operative is more akin to a spy, with hacking, splicing and "accidents" being their modus operandi.

They are information gatherers who use that information to manipulate others into firing the gun or causing damage.

For example a renegade Magos might find their core reactor suddenly breaking down and irradiating an entire Forge complex, destroying it without a bullet ever being fired due to a Vanus assassin hacking their systems and removing the reactor safeguard protocols.

mrFickle wrote:

-Guardsman- wrote:

 sigkill wrote:
have been known to wait in a position for as long as 6 years before taking a shot

What..... situation...... would possibly require this? Like... how do you get 6-year advance notice of where your target will be standing at a given time? And how is there no quicker and more reliable plan that can be enacted during those 6 years?

"Your target has just enrolled in grad school. This means he should be getting his PhD in about 6-7 years. The graduation ceremony is usually held in the football field, unless it's raining. Operative TH-891, go find a good vantage point and lie in wait."

.

6 years? Did they take 6 years of toilet rolls and tooth paste with them?

No, the assassin in question (Dejedris Garamach) subsisted on moss and raw birdflesh. Presumably this fascinating diet resulted in a biological output well in excess of what any supply of toilet rolls could cope with. I assume the assassin merely added his excretions to the patina of the statue in which he was hiding. Perhaps Vindicares are modified such that their excrement resembles verdigris in order to better camouflage themselves during long missions in urban environments? Now that would be interesting. The target in question was a Drukhari raider who had been predicted to show up at that spot at some point. I don't know why they didn't just put in a mine or a gun servitor of some kind.

I think a lot of people in this thread confuse effectiveness for interest. The most effective assassins would be those of the Bullshido Temple, who merely need to think hard about their chosen target, upon which it will fall dead. Only slightly more interesting would be those of the Mattdaemon Temple, who are all extremely professional, calm, and prepared, with an extensive and sensible logistical chain and plenty of signals intelligence. To support their missions, these assassins establish stable wellfare societies where generations of workers labour 8 hours every day (weekends and vacations excluded) to produce high-quality equipment and intelligence for the Temple.

I can't really be convinced that Vindicares are interesting just because they are effective. I don't like aspects of 40k based on how much they resemble Tom Clancy dad fiction. I like it based on how much it resembles mid-80s punk comic books!

 sigkill wrote:
The target in question was a Drukhari raider who had been predicted to show up at that spot at some point. I don't know why they didn't just put in a mine or a gun servitor of some kind.

Right? Assassins may have many augmentations, but I'm pretty sure they still need to sleep from time to time.

Also the Imperium doesn't have all that many of them.

I think a lot of people in this thread confuse effectiveness for interest. The most effective assassins would be those of the Bullshido Temple, who merely need to think hard about their chosen target, upon which it will fall dead. Only slightly more interesting would be those of the Mattdaemon Temple, who are all extremely professional, calm, and prepared, with an extensive and sensible logistical chain and plenty of signals intelligence. To support their missions, these assassins establish stable wellfare societies where generations of workers labour 8 hours every day (weekends and vacations excluded) to produce high-quality equipment and intelligence for the Temple.

Heh. A concept I once had for an obscure Officio Assassinorum temple was bureaucrats who assassinate by messing with the paperwork. E.g., the target is an Imperial Guard general. His medical file says his blood type is A negative, so the assassin-bureaucrat changes it to AB positive (universal recipient). The next time the officer is injured, he receives blood of the wrong type and dies.

.