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What's odd is that that is often happening with films set in the USA which is world famous for having LOTS of guns and ammo and such.


If you're set in the UK or many other nations yeah suddenly "oh just grab a gun" becomes a serious issue. Even places where you might find guns (like farms or rural regions) the ammo would be in much smaller supplies.


Of course you can go find a ruined castle to live in which will stand up to any zombie threat - at least so long as dragons don't become an issue!

In most of there situations people assume they'll be one of the small percentage of survivors but I do not. I will be dead and it won't be my problem or the zombies will be my new friends, in which case now you're the problem.

 Overread wrote:
What's odd is that that is often happening with films set in the USA which is world famous for having LOTS of guns and ammo and such.


If you're set in the UK or many other nations yeah suddenly "oh just grab a gun" becomes a serious issue. Even places where you might find guns (like farms or rural regions) the ammo would be in much smaller supplies.


Of course you can go find a ruined castle to live in which will stand up to any zombie threat - at least so long as dragons don't become an issue!

Also, that old castle probably has a museum full of swords, pikes, bill hooks, maces, and various other interestingly pointy metalwork, which could be handy.

Probably better off raiding hardware stores for pickaxes and other hand tools. Although we would be taking the family sword off the wall if that particular push came to shove

Honestly, it's rather niche, but a larp troop, better yet SCA, or even better a Buhurt group if they're able to assemble will likely be incredibly effective. They're trained in shieldwall, and muscle powered weapons, and all they need is access to actually lethal weaponry (which most of them have) and you have an armored group that can fight until they tire, and retreat. Use them as an anvil, and any shooters as your hammer. The instructions are easy- shoot anybody without a helmet.

 Gitzbitah wrote:
Honestly, it's rather niche, but a larp troop, better yet SCA, or even better a Buhurt group if they're able to assemble will likely be incredibly effective. They're trained in shieldwall, and muscle powered weapons, and all they need is access to actually lethal weaponry (which most of them have) and you have an armored group that can fight until they tire, and retreat. Use them as an anvil, and any shooters as your hammer. The instructions are easy- shoot anybody without a helmet.

You would have to be careful picking terrain, or risk being outflanked by hordes of undead. I prefer a lot more mobility than shield wall type tactics allow.

If we are basing this scenario on the Romero Zombies, we have to take two things into account.

1. Zombies have roughly the same strength as a comic book super hero. This ridiculous superstrength is required to dig through casket/concrete slab/6 feet of packed earth.

The extraordinary forces of a modern grave:

A modern burial setup is designed to be permanent, trapping a human corpse under immense pressure.

The coffin: A standard coffin is robust, but a zombie could potentially damage it. However, the inner coffin is often placed inside an outer burial container, such as a concrete or metal vault. The lid of a concrete vault alone can weigh over 1,500 pounds.

The earth: A standard burial places a body under at least 6 feet of earth. One cubic foot of loose soil can weigh up to 100 pounds, meaning a zombie would need to displace thousands of pounds of dirt above it.

The physics: The dirt acts like a fluid, collapsing into any space the zombie creates, making it nearly impossible to dig or push your way out.

2. As Adam Savage pointed out, Romero (and Walking Dead) Zombies can't climb ladders.

Simply destroy the stairs and use easily deployable/retractable ladders to deny Zombie mobility.

Thus mobility and area denial are your strengths... not a face to face melee.

Until we get into Romero's Land of the Dead Zombies... and that's a whole other ballgame.

Not convinced Romero Zombies do have super strength.

There’s no instance of any breaking out of tombs or digging their way out of a grave in the films. We do see them, eventually, batter down doors. But that isn’t a single blow being used, rather just a body immune to pain and fatigue, and sometimes the press of bodies behind it.

Likewise when grabbed by a single zombie, we tend to see the heroes shrug them off.

Though…there is that devouring in Day of the Dead. With the disturbing scream. If you’ve seen the film you’ll know the bit, and why I’m not describing in greater detail here.

one thing ive always wondered... how hard is it to bite through clothes, especially something like leather haha!
seems you could just cover yourself head to toe and be ok.
well until the press of a horde got you

World war Z (apparently there is a film as well) tries to address all this.

I suppose the key thing is it a) infection or b) universal infection/the rapture/whatever. If its infection it is dealt with as per book and the above. Cities would be fairly terrible but really you would lose have your population tops with an ongoing threat.

If its B) and everyone has it, turning to a zombie when dying, that gets more grim. Every miscarriage might kill the mother. Dying in your sleep kills your family and you get back up as they sleep. And so on. he threat is then constant.

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
one thing ive always wondered... how hard is it to bite through clothes, especially something like leather haha!
seems you could just cover yourself head to toe and be ok.
well until the press of a horde got you

Depending on jaw strength, it could still inflict painful crushing damage and of course you've now got its teeth stuck into the leather.

The discussion of transmission cuts to the core of the problem: if it really is viral, with a lag time, 100 percent contagious, etc., we're all doomed. You've moved from The Walking Dead to Omega Man (aka The Last Man on Earth, I am Legend, etc.).

For narrative purposes, one needs something that *not* everyone will get. If the virus can activate upon natural death, cremation becomes the default form of burial, so that's pretty easy to solve.

Also worth noting that we've had similar experiences before. In Defoe's Journal of the Plague Year, it describes in detail the responses to London's last plague outbreak. The ones who fared best were Dutch and German merchants who had much more knowledge of these events and washed the ground floor with bleach or ammonia, made sure all food was sealed in barrels and then lived upstairs.

The City was placed under quarantine, and plague lines were set up around it, with roadblocks on the highways and roving patrols who were empowered to kill violators. Thus an interesting scenario is being on the wrong side of the line and trying to get by. Society at large is okay, but the town is encircled by a ring of claymores and concertina wire. Escape from New York vibes.

A biker jacket would probably provide reasonable protection, for a time at least.

I’d definitely see any armour outside of LARPers in chainmail and plate as a precaution rather than a solution.

Whether it’s a newspaper wrapped and taped to the forearm, a reasonably thick leather jacket or similar, they’re more about delaying a bite that outright preventing being bitten.

A plastic neck brace (the ones with the padding) may limit your vision movement, but again provide some kind of foil should you get jumped and taken by surprise.

All it needs to do, in that moment, is give you some chance of getting out of the zombie’s grip. Either to then give it a good kicking, or perhaps more sensibly, just get away from it in general.

Likewise, you really don’t need guns to tackle the Romero undead. Yes, ranged defences are preferable. The further away you are, the safer you are from any accidents.

But a cricket bat, baseball bat, golf club, half a brick gaffer taped to a broom handle are all perfectly capable of stoving a rotting head in. Heck. Get a sturdy broom handle and sharpen one end? You’ve a reasonably efficient if rudimentary spear. A weapon which one doesn’t need a huge amount of training and practice to make dangerous only to the target.

The only argument I’d make is Do Not Engage Unless It’s Your Only Option, or you’ve other, similarly armed, watching one another’s back.

And, if you’ve had to have a scrap with any number of zombies? Make sure you’ve finished them off, and have a rigorous inspection of your mates to check for bites and scratches after.

Bites? I’m sorry but that’s “we’ll take you out now, to best manage that risk”.

Scratches? Simply secure the person in isolation and monitor them. If they’re still fine after a couple of days? They’re most likely not going to turn.

Remember Romero Zombies got an upgrade when Zack Snyder remade "Dawn" - if we are including that one.

Also, by Land of the Dead, the Zombies had gotten a lot smarter, and a lot of the tricks humans had relied on didn't work anymore.

The "Dead of Night" series by Jonathan Maberry closely follows the beginning of such an outbreak, and the first book of that was enjoyed by Romero himself so much that he decided it was the canon origin of his zombies, then collaborating with Maberry to have him write a short story that tied the series to Night of the Living Dead, which can be found in the anthology book Nights of the Living Dead. I have yet to read the anthology, but enjoyed the "Dead of Night" series and its full portrayal of a zombie outbreak from its origin to full breakdown of society as we know it and would highly recommend it to any zombie fan.

It's certainly a change of the times where traditional slow biter zombies aren't really an issue for the modern day with newfangled technology like the Internet and drones.

It's where the fast zombies or inherent plagues work in more modern settings where despite modern technology, it can't really be fought effectively.

Black Summer is quite good for early days in a conventional Zombie outbreak

SCA types all started out using carpet as ersatz armour. I thought this was used for dog training as well to certain extent.

Joints need something a bit different as always, but I’m not sure human jaws and teeth are capable of penetrating carpet without like a week of gnawing.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
If we are basing this scenario on the Romero Zombies, we have to take two things into account.


One cubic foot of loose soil can weigh up to 100 pounds, meaning a zombie would need to displace thousands of pounds of dirt above it.

There was a lot in your post that made me chuckle at the inaccuracies, but the above was the funniest. Just a couple weeks ago I bought 20 3-cubic feet bags of gardening soil. The ones that were wet were maybe 70-80 pounds, the dry ones closer to 40. There is no way you find a cubic foot of loose soil that weighs 100 pounds.

 Flinty wrote:
SCA types all started out using carpet as ersatz armour. I thought this was used for dog training as well to certain extent.

Joints need something a bit different as always, but I’m not sure human jaws and teeth are capable of penetrating carpet without like a week of gnawing.

The upside of armour on your hands and forearm is you can jam them into the zombie’s mouth. Again, you’d want to ensure you’ve mates with you to take advantage of that, and have something in your other hand to smash its head in with.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


The upside of armour on your hands and forearm is you can jam them into the zombie’s mouth. Again, you’d want to ensure you’ve mates with you to take advantage of that, and have something in your other hand to smash its head in with.

I can see having a buddy trying to smash or pierce the head of the zombie who is munching on my armored arm not being a good thing. The machete glancing off the skull and burying itself in my forearm would be bad.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The upside of armour on your hands and forearm is you can jam them into the zombie’s mouth. Again, you’d want to ensure you’ve mates with you to take advantage of that, and have something in your other hand to smash its head in with.

Armor has a lot of downsides, including weight, loss of mobility and heat retention. If you are going to be slugging things out, it makes sense, but against zombies, evasion is a more useful tactic, either through superior speed or obstacles they cannot easily surmount.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The upside of armour on your hands and forearm is you can jam them into the zombie’s mouth. Again, you’d want to ensure you’ve mates with you to take advantage of that, and have something in your other hand to smash its head in with.

Armor has a lot of downsides, including weight, loss of mobility and heat retention. If you are going to be slugging things out, it makes sense, but against zombies, evasion is a more useful tactic, either through superior speed or obstacles they cannot easily surmount.

Yeah, it’s a trade off. I’m fairly sure my HEMA gear would give me complete protection from zombie bites, but I’d die of heat exhaustion after a couple of hours. Plus it generally limits your mobility a bit, and severely restricts your senses. Similar situation with my bike leathers.

Always the trade off.

But if I was out scavenging for food? That’s in theory a finite time out in the wild. Some form of personal protection, even if it’s not full body seems prudent.

Until recently (when I found the damp in my old flat had riddled it with mould), I had some comfortable leather bracers for LARP. They were light weight, but plenty thick enough to prevent a human or zombie bite.

Anything bigger and the crushing force would still get me. But that’s not the concern here.

Given a classic zombie death trope is having your stomach exposed and nommed? A leather jacket zipped into leather trousers can help reduce that risk.

But clanking around in plate? OK you're about as well protected as can be. But you’re making noise. And a mob of zombies could still de-limb you. So more something I’d consider if I was looking to clear out a building or something.

Upside for plate of course is that you needn’t be rushing about all the time. Zombies are slow. Zombies lack coordination.

Actually, perhaps a chainmail hauberk? Make sure it’s Riveted Mail, making it highly resistant to being prised apart. Also flexible.

Essentially I see armour as a Get Out Of Being Bitten card. If you’re daft, silly or unwise you’re probably still dead. But even the most rudimentary protection will see you live to learn that particular lesson.

I’ve been pondering on this and unlike historical armour, where you’re facing intelligent opponents with pokey objects, I think against zombies you could really cut down on the body protection. It’s very difficult to get a bite purchase on the torso (try it with a friend, consensually!). I think you need to prioritise “edges”, where it’s eased to get bit. So legs, arms, top of your shoulders and head. So long as you have some reasonably sturdy clothing on your body, say denim, I think you’d be ok. Of course, it would mean that survival in the zombie apocalypse requires everyone to be wearing a Canadian tuxedo, so at that point, is life worth living?

Yeah. Historical headgear wise? Even a reasonably padded arming hood might do the trick. It’s there to prevent nibbling and chewing. Zombie jaws are no stronger than ours - possibly weaker due to general decomposition and that.

Gloves I’m torn on. I for one hate wearing gloves. I don’t like things on my hands, even jewellery and watches. I don’t like the loss of the sense of touch and the clumsiness that comes with them.

But? Even a pair of thorn proof gardening gloves are reasonably bite proof, allowing you to punch a zombie with relative safety. Certainly you don’t want to bare knuckle or knuckle duster it. Only takes a scrape from a tooth and you’re stuffed.

The trade off is of course general dexterity.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yeah. Historical headgear wise? Even a reasonably padded arming hood might do the trick. It’s there to prevent nibbling and chewing. Zombie jaws are no stronger than ours - possibly weaker due to general decomposition and that.

One thing to remember is that zombies feel no pain and have no concern of hurting themselves. That is what makes them dangerous, they have no restraint. Your average human isn't going to try to bite someone (or something) that hard in practice as they may hurt themselves. A zombie will since they only have one setting, and that is max . Think about picking up an empty glass. If you honestly try you would most likely be able to break it in your hand by squeezing it. Again you don't because you would get hurt when it breaks. Zombies are able to go past normal human limits simply because they can't get hurt.

In the end a zombie is more likely to be able to bite through your light armor if for no other reason than that they won't stop trying. There jaws might not be stronger, but their willingness to use them is.

Still doesn’t grant them enough bite force to get through a reasonably thick leather cap. Especially as the wearer is presumably at least struggling.

So the armour I propose isn’t about being proof - just greatly increasing resistance, and the time needed to get back on your feet

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Still doesn’t grant them enough bite force to get through a reasonably thick leather cap. Especially as the wearer is presumably at least struggling.

So the armour I propose isn’t about being proof - just greatly increasing resistance, and the time needed to get back on your feet

Weather is a huge factor in this. I'd even say decisive. If it's cold and rainy (basically any day of the year in England), you will naturally wear a jacket and in a survival situation, insulated pants and boots.

But for about three months of the year, it's a non-starter around here. Yes, I did SCA stuff in August, and it can be done, but you're also drinking gallons of water and completely spent in short order. Not much endurance.

It really comes down to the environment and associated situational awareness. If you are deliberately hunting zombies (especially in terrain with lots of concealment), than it is a must.

But if the area has been swept, has good sightlines, positional defenses/alarms (lines of cans at ankle height), I wouldn't bother.

I did a LARP on a scorching hot August. Padded Gambeson, Chainmail and an Iron Helmet was hell!

The Chainmail itself isn’t too bad without the padding. By no means comfortable, but ultimately kinda breathable.

But pain is there to prevent animals from damaging themselves. If you are biting something hard enough to cause pain, then irreversible damage isn’t far behind. The jaw/gum/root/tooth system can only take so much before disintegrating.