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The Warhammer World isn't 40k - simply killing, scheming, or loving sufficiently hard isn't enough to make Chaos just start appearing. It is pretty clear from the history that the concrete threat from Chaos involves actual invasions from the polar gates (or more subtle long-term corruption causing things like beastmen). Warhammer societies don't seem to collapse out of ignorance of Chaos. The one that has gotten closest is probably the empire of the Chaos Dwarves, which is still pretty stable... for a xenophobic slave state. It is unlikely that the USA would collapse very quickly if at all due to Chaos corruption.

Its also worth remembering that the Warhammer World is just a game board for the Chaos Gods - just one of many.

They absolutely are able to influence mortals - powerful mortals often being the most fun.

How many people in the US would sell their souls for tangible rewards from a god - especially if their god is absent

 Mr Morden wrote:
Its also worth remembering that the Warhammer World is just a game board for the Chaos Gods - just one of many.

They absolutely are able to influence mortals - powerful mortals often being the most fun.

How many people in the US would sell their souls for tangible rewards from a god - especially if their god is absent

Nurgle gets into the supplements trade, with the benefit of magic. Probably the only thing slowing it down is how much that manufacturing is done out of the US in this scenario.

 Flinty wrote:

On topic, I would tend to agree that in a pitched battle, a modern military would defeat a Warhammer force of pretty much any size. However, recent evidence would suggest that doesn’t lead to any real lasting benefit for anyone involved.

I'm not convinced. I've seen plenty of 100 US marines vs 100,000 romans or whatever simulations where the marines win but they seem to have unlimited ammo. The reality is that without an incredible supply chain and a lot of ammo, a pitched battle is going to run into direct combat which the US military doesn't have much experience of and certainly not against a rank and file army with shields and spears.

Plate/mail armor and a shield will do nothing against a rifle round (or bigger), but I'm not sure standard miltary armor and a bayonette will do much against an axe coming out of a shield wall.

The US military would do a lot better if it could avoid pitched battles and rely on range/artillery to win by attrition and supply chain.

"Pitched battle" doesn't have to be over an open field separated by a few hundred meters. And even if it is, modern soldiers in vehicles with heavy machine guns would be completely untouchable by a medieval army (meaning a Warhammer army would need monsters or magic, which in fairness are pretty common). They would run out of ammunition eventually, but then they could just leave in the vehicles and repeat another time. Also, no medieval army would march into machine gun fire - their morale would break pretty quickly. I guess the undead wouldn't mind, though.

Also, anti-personnel artillery is so deadly (and ammunition so plentiful), that I am pretty sure it could straight up just kill everyone if the medieval opponent was really on one of those open featureless fields you see in video games.

Barring magic and monsters with an outsized influence, I still think the USA would win any pitched battle against the Warhammer world. The questions then become things like "what is the effectiveness of Nagash against an armoured division?" and "can the USA maintain its supply lines across an entire world with no prepared infrastructure?". I suspect that ships, even modern ones, would be vulnerable to weather magic.

Based on the past few responses. I guess the question should be asked:

In this scenario, does the US just show up in WHFB, properly armed but without resupply, or does it maintain access to it's standard supply chains and logistics.

In either scenario, access to oil / gasoline would be the biggest constraint. While it would suck to run out of bullets, it's conceivable a munitions factory could be set up to produce more. Finding, excavating and refining crude might be beyond an army's capabilities.

Along with the question of supply chains, how about satellite intelligence? Some US satellites have the resolution to read the date off a nickel. Others are capable of wide area lidar scans that reveal locations of any tunnels and underways that would could play a role in any sustained campaign. Much different outcomes if they can map the territory remotely and undetected.

In a straight-up pitched battle I'm pretty sure most ancient armies would break and run at the sheer terror of being bombarded by mortar shells and cut down in swathes by machine gun fire. There's simply nothing in ancient warfare that compares to the destructive power of even fairly short-ranged battlefield weapons, never mind long range artillery and missiles.

That said, a WH force is exposed to daemons, monsters and magic fairly frequently, so maybe they wouldn't care as much. Also, as much as an army of Elves may well look in in horror as the machine guns open up, I think the US military may have an even worse reaction as pits to the nether dimension open at their feet, armies of spectral warriors charge through their ranks and their commanders start exploding spontaneously. I think having absolutely no concept of, and no defence for, magic would probably swing the battle against the US.

And where are the getting the satellites and necessary rockets from?

How quickly could the necessary clever people account for more than one moon, and Morrslieb in particular with its unpredictable, erratic orbit?

On armoured vehicles? Best hope there are no Gold College Wizards kicking about. They like metal. Quick spell, and your armour is now a literal oven. Crew baked, ammo quite possibly cooking off.

One thing to consider is numbers - USA today likely has numbers that can only be matched in the Old World setting by Skaven.

Then you layer on top things like advanced gun technology - sure you're going to need ammunition, but the USA as a country has a huge wealth of resources and knowledge on how to build those weapons.



That said we've also seen the USA go up against several real world situations where they had technological superiority, but ultimately lost due to gorilla warfare.

I would say in any pitched battle on land the USA would win. They'd also have insane air superiority which would let them deal with dragons, griffins, airships and any larger settlements. A handful of bombing runs over the Empire and most of their key cities would be in ruin very quickly.
At sea they've got a huge range advantage again; sure you've got Black Arks and Seamonsters; the latter would be an issue but the former would be taken out very quickly with a few longrange missiles or even just regular cannon fire.


My impression is the USA would win the initial war unless they declared it on everyone at the very same time and would thus lose to having too many targets at once. But if they picked a region and focused on it one by one they could win major engagements.



HOWEVER

1) Dwarves and those that live underground would likely have an advantage at lasting out. Though bunker-blasters and such would likely force them very deep underground. Heck even in Old World itself a lot of the threats to Dwarves don't come from outside, but from other races digging into their holds and breaking in that way instead of top-down.

2) Magic - this is something the USA can't directly counter. However in their advantage its very limited in the setting and held by very squishy wizards. I'd wager snipers would have a lot of value in identifying and then taking out wizards. Esp early in any war when wizards would still be dressing very flamboyantly and thus stand out at long distance. Later they'd likely learn to hide and blend in, but would still be probably the most prime target on the battlefield.

3) They'd lose on occupation.
This is the clincher - the USA could win in battles; but even with their vast numbers and technology they'd likely lose in occupation. A few races they might genocide but for humans at least they'd likely have a huge problem with keeping the peoples conquered.

4) The will to fight at home. This is a key point to consider. It's one thing to say that the USA could conquer all as they have a huge numbers and technology advantage even without using their nuclear capacity. However where is the will to fight and how long would that last for?
Could they get away declaring war on the Lizardmen and wiping them out - heck probably yes.
What about other humans and elves though? Esp if neither faction is actually invading or threatening the USA directly before the war?


The long term view is I think the USA couldn't maintain warfare and historically the USA has a really bad reputation for actual occupation. Plus all those conquered peoples wouldn't stay without guns for long. They'd steal technology; they'd adapt it. Dwarves and Elves would likely fuse magic and machine.

The USA could dominate large scale battles; but small skirmishes; holding populations and territory and all that comes after the pitched battle is where I think they'd ultimately lose.

Slipspace wrote:
In a straight-up pitched battle I'm pretty sure most ancient armies would break and run at the sheer terror of being bombarded by mortar shells and cut down in swathes by machine gun fire. There's simply nothing in ancient warfare that compares to the destructive power of even fairly short-ranged battlefield weapons, never mind long range artillery and missiles.

That said, a WH force is exposed to daemons, monsters and magic fairly frequently, so maybe they wouldn't care as much. Also, as much as an army of Elves may well look in in horror as the machine guns open up, I think the US military may have an even worse reaction as pits to the nether dimension open at their feet, armies of spectral warriors charge through their ranks and their commanders start exploding spontaneously. I think having absolutely no concept of, and no defence for, magic would probably swing the battle against the US.

Might be worth keeping in mind the lasting affects of shell shock on WWI soldiers. Large numbers of men came back from the front screaming and twitching uncontrollably, unable to serve any useful role in society after confronting bombard munitions. I imagine that could go both ways...

The weapons platforms available to today's military are many orders of magnitude more lethal. Even the A-10's lowly main gun can render an area the size of a football field free from all life in just a few moments.

Screaming aerial death machines that wipe out a field army before vanishing over the horizon seconds later might be a bit much for the psyche even for an army with Wizards, Dragons, Daemons, Spectral Combatants and Giant Monsters.

I think an A10 is probably as close to a literal dragon as it’s possible to get without scales

I guess it depends on what the goal is. The USA hasn't really felt like properly occupying a country since Japan/Germany.
I'd imagine that the USA could very easily use cruise missiles or drone strikes to take out any/all characters /wizards/ leaders/ monsters /dragons, but would need to adapt new weapons for daemons and ghosts and stuff

how USA forces got into WHF world? Or any other Country army? All approximations here are based on they fight with endless supplies. How they get them? Do they bring spare Abrams with them? And ospreys deliver endless parcels with munition food and water to front? I remind you there is actually god of Pestilence and Death, no one would drink local water in right mind. Even in same planet if you have no appropriate vaccination you have good chance to die of diarrhea in Cambodia or India if you drink or eat something without preparation. There is no proper roads, at least not enought. Your favorite truck sink in mud after first rain. There's no airfields and no current aircraft can start from field like wwII one. Fuel? Especially kerosene? Without it no air domination. Like German pretty good aircrafts without fuel can't defend Reich. Dragons on other hand fly from and where they wand and ate their fuel right on battlefield
How large USA army? I think even with all personnel it's around 5 millions reserves included. Remind you not every person are combatant. And how many skavens and greenskins are here?
Also don't forget that firepower isn't main thing. We could just remember thing like heroism. Wave of bodies easily wash away any advantage in firepower. Kamikaze, guerillas, every one around invaders forces are enemy.
Not counting demons of all kind who don't miss a chance to participate in largest war of world.