Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:


I really have absolutely no idea what could possibly have convinced you that Aeronautica or Epic is going to return. Why would you think that? They tried a new aeronautica already, and they have an epic equivalent with Legionnes Imperialis.

Okay, lets do this; convince me to get into Warhammer: The Horus Heresy - Aeronautica Imperialis

Why should I buy into the game. I'm serious about this...convince me.



EDIT: For the record I mean no ill will towards you. This is not to instigate an argument, but to shed light on why Aeronautica is still on sale. Please do not take this personally.

 kodos wrote:
if Epic 40k comes back it would be done by the 40k studio and in direct competition to LI, not even GW is stupid enough to allow that

for the same reason if BFG returns it is either by the 30k studio or 40k studio and given the current gaming situation, 40k is unlikely

Yet we’ve 30k and 40K in 28mm. So I have to ask, what’s the difference here?

Legions Imperialis lets me muck around with canonically huge Space Marine armies, with all sorts of funky toys to support the infantry.

40K in Epic Scale would allow me to field the Imperial Guard army of my dreams, or the Orky horde of someone’s nightmare. To better represent the sheer numbers of a Hive Fleet assaulting a world and so on and so forth.

I think the difference is simple - sales

30K has Space Marines and heck the majority of releases for 30K are Space Marines. Space Marines are an enigma that "just sells".

LI isn't Space Marines in the same way; its a different target market. I can't see GW risking what's basically a niche market with two competing games. Esp since honestly I'd wager 40K would end up the more popular very quickly since you can use all the titans and aircraft; and you can use most of the marine models at that scale too as a counts'as with little problem.

You mostly just need the tanks reworking and even there its small things. Heck a chunk of the SA tanks are only "30K only" very recently because GW chose to draw a line between the products and a bunch of GW tanks wound up on the 30K instead of 40K side.



If LI were flying off the shelves; generating LOADS of buzz and hype then I'd expect them to have a faster roll out of new models and factions alongside the potential for GW to consider having two competing lines.
But its not. It's doing good but its not a wonder-seller of game.

SamusDrake wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:


I really have absolutely no idea what could possibly have convinced you that Aeronautica or Epic is going to return. Why would you think that? They tried a new aeronautica already, and they have an epic equivalent with Legionnes Imperialis.

Okay, lets do this; convince me to get into Warhammer: The Horus Heresy - Aeronautica Imperialis

Why should I buy into the game. I'm serious about this...convince me.



EDIT: For the record I mean no ill will towards you. This is not to instigate an argument, but to shed light on why Aeronautica is still on sale. Please do not take this personally.

Horus Heresy aeronautica is still available because of Legiones Imperialis. That's it. If it weren't for that game making use of the aircraft, they would have been discontinued along with the rest. It doesn't even have its own category on the webstore, let alone a starter set or anything - it's just the last remnants of a no-longer supported product.

How does that have anything to do with you being convinced that Epic 40k or Aeronautica 40k is returning, though? Are you just going "I don't like the Horus Heresy, so that means 40k is coming back"? You made out you had some reason to actually think so, not just a hope.

I'm trying to heavily condense my reply, and might be very disjointed here and there....

I think if Epic 40K was nuked - gone for good - then Aeronautica would not still be on sale. It would just be written off like Dreadfleet. Because right now there is no Heresy boxed game for Aeronautica. They have only a rule book. A rule book, on page 10 - if the image I am looking at is correct - states the following...

Games of Aeronautica Imperialis are played on a grid of hexes overlaid onto an aerial map depicting a war-torn world of the 31st Millennium. Fold-out Areas of Engagement are available from Games Workshop.

...but this has been incorrect for three years now. This book should no longer be on sale if Games Workshop can no longer supply this essential component to play the game. Legacy or not, I can easily walk into a GW store and order this book, then return and ask to purchase the board to play on. And then when they say "we longer sell them"...well, I could then say I'd like a refund for the rule book I cannot use. An annoyed customer would might even ask "why are you selling this book then?".

Truth is, I like Epic being restricted to the Heresy era. I was looking forward to that AI-30K boxed game that never showed up. But we have the Horizon Wars rules set for aircraft and its an ideal substitute for Heresy-era dog fighting.

But its hard to over look the effect that covid has had on many projects across the board. Films and TV shows were cancelled and GW has clearly had many problems with a few of their games, making cutbacks - even the expansions for Cursed City didn't have any models!

Aeronautica was released in late 2019 - August If I remember correctly - and basically just before the covid situation kicked off. And it simply wasn't able to enjoy enough time at the clubs - players were having a difficult time playing 40K itself, let alone anything else that was new. So with that in mind, Games Workshop had no choice but to cut back on certain projects until a later time to return to them.

A return to Aeronautica 40K can be favourably revised; no more expensive cardboard hexmaps - just an "open table", inexpensive slim journals instead of hardbacks repeating the same core rules. And this time...no covid. And to kick it all off - players are only too happy to dust off their Ork, Eldar, Tau and Necron models...maybe even take a leaf out of Underworlds - instead of season boxes, have just a core boxed game to expand from...

Legions Imperialis launched with the scathing criticism that it wasn't 40K. I felt this was a bit unfair as it was just taking Adeptus Titanicus to the next level of infantry and tanks, but GW has been living with this criticism since AT returned in 2018. No matter what they release for Legions Imperialis, players and reviewers will still make that criticism until GW releases an Epic 40K game. If Epic 40K is years away, then Aeronautica 40K would still be the economical stepping stone to it.

But returning to this topic; Battlefleet Gothic is as far as I know a 40K era game. I don't think GW are going to bring back a game that would burn through it's unique model scale range, limited to Imperium ships only. A prelude "tactics" board game maybe is as far as I see that happening.

Sorry for the long reply.

Things changed a lot since 2019 with some adjustments to sales strategies from GW in the last 3 years.
GW keeping things around instead of just removing them is usually hinting at something, but they are also much more strict on keeping their IPs destinct. So I would not rate anything left from Covid as hint that something is coming back soon.
Like the only reason for Epic 40k to come back would be that 40k guys see how much sales the 30k guys get from it and wanting to have a part from that cake and the managment not getting in saying "no" early on.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Yet we’ve 30k and 40K in 28mm. So I have to ask, what’s the difference here?.

that HH in 28mm started as a supplement to 40k, using the same rules and it was pure coincidence that it became its own game rather staying a supplement with/after 8th Edition (and stayed 28mm while 40k moved to 32mm)
For the same reason AI was 40k game that got changed to be a 30k game later, or why GW now remove shared IPs (or armies).

Don't expect HH to ever get a version of Kill Team or 40k getting a version of Epic (or see certain armies in TOW) as long this strategy is in place
So for BFG it would come down to who is going to make it, be it the 40k department than also expect a 40k/KT style release and rules, or 40k department and expect it to be 30k only

SamusDrake wrote:
I'm trying to heavily condense my reply, and might be very disjointed here and there....

I think if Epic 40K was nuked - gone for good - then Aeronautica would not still be on sale. It would just be written off like Dreadfleet. Because right now there is no Heresy boxed game for Aeronautica. They have only a rule book. A rule book, on page 10 - if the image I am looking at is correct - states the following...

Games of Aeronautica Imperialis are played on a grid of hexes overlaid onto an aerial map depicting a war-torn world of the 31st Millennium. Fold-out Areas of Engagement are available from Games Workshop.

this is why I don't see the connection.
if AI is written with the 30k tag, there is no link to Epic 40k and it being on sale while everything else being gone not unusual for the company that will sell you a 9th Edition rulebook the day before 10th Edition is released with "this is the current version of the game"

 kodos wrote:
this is why I don't see the connection.
if AI is written with the 30k tag, there is no link to Epic 40k and it being on sale while everything else being gone not unusual for the company that will sell you a 9th Edition rulebook the day before 10th Edition is released with "this is the current version of the game"

That is an example - a bit extreme, mind - of a game being supported right up until it's last day. In that case, the game is still playable because GW are selling the models and the D6s and tape measure that are only required to function. With the event of 10th edition competitive play, well GW provided both free core rules and indices for every faction.

But in the case of this rule book for Aeronautica, it MUST have a hex-map to function which GW has not provided for the last THREE years. Who's been buying that book in these last three years? Those Legions players who had previously invested in Aeronautica, that already had a hex-map to play on, would have purchased it three years ago when the book was relevant.

In hindsight Titanicus was the prelude to Epic 30K, and Aeronautica the prelude to Epic 40K. Covid came along and plans for Epic 40K were put on hold and so Aeronautica was then "touching down....for now" on the Heresy airfield.

Being honest, I guessed previously that GW was using AT to get the titan models up to speed for Epic 40K, and AI was introducing the aircraft, but the eras just weren't the same and AT would have needed to introduce xenos and chaos titans and knights - or equivalents - to match what they were doing with AI, to pave the way for Epic 40K. I personally think it should have been all Heresy from the start - more managable - but GW's ambitions are quite scary sometimes...

Right now, Aeronautica is in a very strange state of limbo, and GW can easily be rid of it and put the effort into more important things...maybe Battle Fleet Gothic? Legions still has Titanicus if that's as far as GW's plans for Epic will go, after all.

I just can't get excited about any more 30k setting games. I feel it's fully milked at this point and every further 30k game is just shooting a potential winner in the foot imo.

I'm still hurt that AT is in limbo.

We got dashboards for some new units when they were released for Li, but not even a mention any where or any time.

I feel like AT was ghosted by GW. That's why I haven't really invested in any other 30k products.

(That and upon reading Li, it sucks for Titan play.)

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I'm still hurt that AT is in limbo.

We got dashboards for some new units when they were released for Li, but not even a mention any where or any time.

I feel like AT was ghosted by GW. That's why I haven't really invested in any other 30k products.

AT hasn't been dropped though. Many of the resin kits are being transferred into (slightly) more affordable plastic, and the admech stalkers got new AT rules too.

Obviously for the last 2 years the focus has been on LI infantry/tank kits to fill out most of the core faction options from HH, but we're likely getting towards the end of that cycle now.

They're keeping printed datacards in product boxes for a reason, and I'm sure it's because the future plan is to release more Titanicus-compatible models.

Could we keep this thread about the possibility of a BFG re-release and not the success or otherwise of other games?

 Snord wrote:
Could we keep this thread about the possibility of a BFG re-release and not the success or otherwise of other games?

It leads to the problem of a possible BFG game.

If it is a HH version, a lot of us fear that it will come out, and be forgotten within a few months.

While AT and AI are still in print, GW never talks about them or their future. Right now, you can use their models in Li.

A HH BFG could quickly go the same route.

And that makes a lot of people not interested in the game.

Not really, there are vast amounts of people primarily interested for the models.

robbienw wrote:
Not really, there are vast amounts of people primarily interested for the models.

The models, yes, but the actual physical game, I can't imagine why they wouldn't use the older rules, which are awesome.

The two problems we were always going to have with any kind of BFG relaunch is that GW wants to make money and they want to put their own stamp on things. Neither of those is bad, but in this case it's hard to balance them with the fact that there is still a happy community. I've got the fan rules and the original books, I've got some fleets mixing 3d printed and original ships, so why do I need a new edition? I suspect anyone seriously interested in the game has found a way to play it by now.so how is GW going to get us excited again and also make money off of us? What do we even want?

I'd like to see them release a sort of 'version 1.1' cleaned up core book and a fleet book, it worked last time! And maybe a third 'fun stuff' book remixing old WD material with wacky things like PvE mode as in the new Kill Team edition, or void monster hunts or whatever. Then a pair of new sprues for each faction - we all get one for cruiser classes and one for escort classes. In most cases with modern tech you could make that work. I think I'd buy those books and some ships. But if they do brand new rules why do I need them? And if I don't - if no one does - then that's a big chunk of sales they wouldn't get. Same with the ships - theirs are going to have to be absolutely stellar to beat out all the many 3d printable designs.

I bet they haven't relaunched it because they have not figured out how to make money off both new players and existing players, and until they feel they have cracked that formula, BFG will stay in limbo as it has these many long years.

SamusDrake wrote:

But in the case of this rule book for Aeronautica, it MUST have a hex-map to function which GW has not provided for the last THREE years. Who's been buying that book in these last three years? Those Legions players who had previously invested in Aeronautica, that already had a hex-map to play on, would have purchased it three years ago when the book was relevant.

It doesn't.
You can play without a hex map. But if you really really want/need a hex map? There's any # of non-GW sources. Or you can spend a few moments making your own (it's not hard).

As for the book still being for sale? Eh. Keep it up for sale until the stock runs out or the powers that be say to remove it. Wichever comes first.