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How do!

Once again I’m going to tackle a less than well thought of movie, and see if I can find some positives. And this is a film which, having grown up as a Dredd Fan I’ve only grown more fond of.

Whilst I don’t think there’s any sane or rational argument that Dredd ultimately did it better? There is, on proper reflection, a lot to enjoy here.

Up to the point the helmet comes off? Stallone is Dredd. His portrayal, among the varying in-universe nonsense is pitch perfect. And the in-universe nonsense is likewise superior to that we see in Dredd. That’s not to say Dredd’s MC-1 was crap? Just that here they capture the claustrophobia and madness of life in the Big Meg. And you can tell Versace had a blast designing the costumes. Certainly they stand rival to Gaultier’s work on The Fifth Element, and may have informed Jean-Paul to some degree.

The plot itself, as a Dredd Fan of course takes many, many liberties with the source material. Perhaps too many. But having read a helluva lot more Dredd between its release and now? I can see a bold attempt to stitch together a bunch of Classics into a single, well paced movie. And it is well paced, make no mistake about that. We’ve a bunch of actors in sumptuous sets, and every single one of them is leaving prime evidence level dental impressions in set sumptuous sets.

Mega Epics informing events include The Day The Law Died, Rico’s Return, Juddah, The Cursed Earth, The Judge Child and The Dead Man. It’s not quite the sum of those parts? But for a pre X-Men Comic Book Movie Adaptation it’s genuinely better than we might expect.

Some of the liberties are entirely justified. For instance? In the comics, Joe and Rico Dredd both know they’re genetically engineered clones, and have always known. Revealing that as a secret in the movie is for The Audience. Which feels necessary, given Dredd is pretty niche as comic books go, even today.

It does do a good job of setting out just how no nonsense and fascistic Justice Department is, without belabouring the point. We see the instant Justice angle front and centre, alongside what we in the modern day might consider mere lip service to the concept of reading someone their rights.

Bonus points for folding in an ABC Robot and Ian Drury. Spesh as, from my further reading, the ABC Warriors do have common roots, albeit a divergent future if memory serves, to the Mega-Cities. And just how effing good is that ABC Warrior? I know it’s a puppet. You know it’s a puppet. But it doesn’t bloody look like one!

So….Judge Dredd, or Dredd? Dredd, or Judge Dredd? Both have their unique selling points. Each perfectly captures different elements of MC-1. Overall, I do of course prefer Dredd’s more serious tone. But honestly? I hold them in precisely equal esteem, for different reasons. They’re both entertaining, and between them, with the right script, cast and director may well lie Cinematic Perfection.

If you’ve not seen Judge Dredd in a while? Given we’ve a wealth of comic book adaptation drivel these days, it’s probably worth another look.

This one I'll agree with, you're talking about one of my favourite good bad films - Dredd was undeniably brilliant, but there's something about Judge Dredd that is very appealing, particularly when I'm ill & just want to slump on the sofa, drink whisky and eat toffees and be entertained.

BUT - challenge, I have for you, Doc. If you want to defend the indefensible.... Pacific Rim 2

To be fair, I have seen it, I just don’t remember a damned thing about it.

Will see if it’s on Prime.


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Also? I wouldn’t even call Judge Dredd a Good Bad Movie.

Whilst an over ambitious mishmash of Dredd stories? The actual making of the movie is really solid.

The set design throughout is solid. The framing and editing is really good. You can see the budget on the screen and it does pay off. The acting, even Rob Schneider, is perfectly cromulent,

I’d argue it’s flaw is that it’s too British for American audiences (on account few would be familiar with its satirical nature) and too American for British audiences (who have at least a cultural osmosis awareness of Dredd, which it doesn’t quite tickle)

And so you kind of end up with a solid film which, in terms of wider audience appeal? Is neither quite Arthur nor Martha.

I still think it’s aged like a fine wine. But retrospect is a helluva drug!


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Gonna add another win.

That soundtrack. It really works!

This sounds like a great idea for a thread, where we challenge each other (like a movie of the month club) to watch absolutely terrible films like: Dragonball Evolution, The Last Airbender, The Adventures of Pluto Nash, Star Trek Into Darkness, Batman & Robin, and Battlefield Earth.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
This sounds like a great idea for a thread, where we challenge each other (like a movie of the month club) to watch absolutely terrible films like: Dragonball Evolution, The Last Airbender, The Adventures of Pluto Nash, Star Trek Into Darkness, Batman & Robin, and Battlefield Earth.

I think I'd defend Alien 3 in such a thread, some folks out there really have a grudge for that one.

I was a fan of the 2012 Dredd movie, never saw the Stallone one...might have to soon though.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Also? I wouldn’t even call Judge Dredd a Good Bad Movie.

I'd agree. It's a bad Dredd movie, for the reasons you listed above (but mostly for the helmet!), but by the standards of the time, it's a fun, well-structured action romp with a lot of cool stuff thrown in.

And is the origin of the slogan 'Eat recycled food - it's good for the environment, and ok for you!'... which still pops up on my wargaming terrain regularly.

I must admit I actually enjoyed the Stallone Dredd more than the new one. Stallone Dredd had more cynical humor and more story to it while the 2012 Dredd at the time felt like an US version of The Raid (2011) to me: Guy walks into a building and kills everyone in quite spectacular ways. The end.
I am not familiar with the comics at all, though.

 Thargrim wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
This sounds like a great idea for a thread, where we challenge each other (like a movie of the month club) to watch absolutely terrible films like: Dragonball Evolution, The Last Airbender, The Adventures of Pluto Nash, Star Trek Into Darkness, Batman & Robin, and Battlefield Earth.

I think I'd defend Alien 3 in such a thread, some folks out there really have a grudge for that one.

Alien 3 got mangled at the theatre release as they cut a good chunk of the connecting parts of the story out. The current extended directors cut adds in a lot of missing scenes and parts. Though strangely they cut the dog-hatch for a bull-hatch and honestly that's the only thing I wish they'd not done. The dog hatch is a real horror scene and fits the story and alien shape really well. The bull hatch is good, but its just more "action film" levels of event than pure horror.

I can't say I've ever had a problem with Judge Dredd, but of course I don't know the comic, so I ever only looked at it in isolation. For that it's got a lot going for it.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
... watch absolutely terrible films ... The Adventures of Pluto Nash...

I watched it not too long ago and I thought it was fine. Not great nor peak Eddie Murphy, but hardly as bad as I was led to believe.

I watched Judge Dredd a couple months back and it was a much better film than I thought it would be.

It may slip into generic 90's action flick territory a bit too much, but I think it captures the look and the essence of the comics a lot better than Dredd's rather toned down, generic near-future take.

Karl Urban is still the better Joseph Dredd though.

 Overread wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
This sounds like a great idea for a thread, where we challenge each other (like a movie of the month club) to watch absolutely terrible films like: Dragonball Evolution, The Last Airbender, The Adventures of Pluto Nash, Star Trek Into Darkness, Batman & Robin, and Battlefield Earth.

I think I'd defend Alien 3 in such a thread, some folks out there really have a grudge for that one.

Alien 3 got mangled at the theatre release as they cut a good chunk of the connecting parts of the story out. The current extended directors cut adds in a lot of missing scenes and parts. Though strangely they cut the dog-hatch for a bull-hatch and honestly that's the only thing I wish they'd not done. The dog hatch is a real horror scene and fits the story and alien shape really well. The bull hatch is good, but its just more "action film" levels of event than pure horror.

I would ABSOLUTELY defend Alien 3, I love that film - they nailed the atmosphere of desperation, Ripley having gone too far and lived too long... from the first encounter with the Xenomorph, to fighting it with the Marines, to ending it all with sticks and stones when they don't have the tech anymore. Even though it was a rush salvage job after the initial script fell through and they'd blown most of the budget (IIRC).

AND it has "I" from Withnail & I and Mr. Rottweiler from Bottom in it.

I remember going to see Judge Dredd in the cinema (jeez, was it really 30 years ago?). I think I've watched it once more since then. I will be honest, I don't remember much of the plot but I really, really hated it - and Stallone's Dredd annoyed me so much. I seem to remember some of the original 2000AD writers also hated it, so I was in good company.

It was massively hyped up at the time, which probably didn't help. I can also acknowledge that films like that are going to have the problem of trying to appeal to die hard fans who have background knowledge and their own sense of what Dredd is, while also having to appeal to a wider audience who may have no idea who or what Judge Dredd is. That's not easy, although maybe something that franchises like the Marvel films have helped Hollywood get better at over the years.

Karl Urban just feels and acts like the Judge Dredd I grew up reading about. Dredd is the far superior film, and I would've loved either another film or a TV series.

Maybe I need to revisit the Stallone Dredd sometime, and try to approach it with a fresh mind (and low expectations)?

I think if you treat it as a competent action flick, with a Dredd veneer you may find it enjoyable.

I’m of course not gonna promise anything there, or say any opposite opinions are wrong.

But it really has aged better than most comic adaptations of its age, especially the overall design work which remains superb.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
This sounds like a great idea for a thread, where we challenge each other (like a movie of the month club) to watch absolutely terrible films like: Dragonball Evolution, The Last Airbender, The Adventures of Pluto Nash, Star Trek Into Darkness, Batman & Robin, and Battlefield Earth.

Ator the invincible!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I must admit I actually enjoyed the Stallone Dredd more than the new one. Stallone Dredd had more cynical humor and more story to it while the 2012 Dredd at the time felt like an US version of The Raid (2011) to me: Guy walks into a building and kills everyone in quite spectacular ways. The end.
I am not familiar with the comics at all, though.

The Stallone film was Mega city one. It is after all a brash American city turned up to 11. The Urban film was Judge Dredd doing a day int he life, but they had taken the Meg back to its early days to tone down the fantastical. As a result the film is mostly his performance.

I'm an 80s kid, never considered Judge Dredd a bad movie. IIRC it even had a plot, as was the style at the time.

Haven't seen the new one, I don't see the point in watching a dude shoot mooks for 2 hours.

I love the Stallone Judge Dredd movie. It's very campy, and I'm aware it's not terribly faithful to the comics (which I've never read, as I don't generally read comics much), but it's just good clean fun. Plus Diane Lane was fine as hell, even if she did look like that when I was just a little squirt.

I've never seen the Karl Urban Dredd movie, but I want to at some point, as I've heard good things.

Visuals of Meg 1, the uniforms, equipment etc, perfection. Portrayal of the characters and story? Trash. Transpose Karl Urban's Dredd into Stallones setting, you'd have the quintessential Dredd movie.

I prefer the Stallone Dredd to the Karl Urban Dredd. Besides the design and production being far superior, the story is more memorable and introduces a lot more color from Dredd’s world.

I never even heard of the comics when the fist movie came out, but I’ve always been forgiving of adaptations that stray into weirdness or cheese. However, I have read some of the comics since, and I don’t see how Urban is any more a perfect Dredd. I more easily buy Stallone’s Dredd saying “Gaze into the fist of Dredd” for example. And Urba seem to be playing the kind of Hollywood LEO Dredd was created to parody.

As for the other characters, this is the last time Rob Schneider was entertaining in a movie, and Armand Asante is the LAAAWWWawwwwww. There’s no match in Urban Dredd.

 Skinflint Games wrote:
This one I'll agree with, you're talking about one of my favourite good bad films - Dredd was undeniably brilliant, but there's something about Judge Dredd that is very appealing, particularly when I'm ill & just want to slump on the sofa, drink whisky and eat toffees and be entertained.

BUT - challenge, I have for you, Doc. If you want to defend the indefensible.... Pacific Rim 2

I enjoyed PR2 in a cheesy, Godzilla Final Wars kind of way. It’s not an instant classic like the first, but it has a lot of bonkers moments and some charm.

On the tone of the Dredd comics? It varies a lot, especially in the early days where it cleaves close to its satirical roots.

The first Mega Epic, The Cursed Earth ends up featuring vampiric robots called Snap, Crackle & Pop, Colonel Sanders and Ronald McDonald after all.

It’s not quite as prevalent.in the modern day, but some has been farmed out to side characters, such as Noam Chimpsky. And it has waxed and waned over the years.

Which is probably part of the secret of its longevity. It can deal with deadly serious stuff with a straight face, and as a palette refreshed serve up some silly one or two parters.

So the tone of the two films are just reaching into different areas of the overall mythos.

The script in Dredd is better. Dredd is suitably emotionless, barring clear but tightly restrained anger. And it’s so well done? You can track Dredd’s unspoken opinion of Anderson by what he says.

For instance, when the block Medic asks if he knows how often they get a Judge in Peach Trees? Dredd replies “Well, you’ve got on now”. There, Anderson is clearly not making the grade, or his internal jury is at least still out. But when he confronts the bent Judge? He comments that two Judges called it in. And that’s after Anderson lost her Lawgiver, which should be an automatic fail. Likewise the method he uses to take care of Mama absolutely is Justice. Granted he didn’t skin her first. But she gives her the same execution Warning Death she gave earlier in the film.

I think it’s also important to note that you couldn’t really have made Dredd in 1995. Way too violent, despite the great care taken to show the Judges are in complete control when dishing out justice. Tight, precise aiming and fire discipline rather than just “chuck as much lead at them as you can”. Which of course serves as a beautiful narrative balance to Mama.

I guess I just find that Dredd too close to the target of the parody than the parody character itself. Of course both were too charismatic and neither of them had the visor-reflected SS runes that define the tone of the parody, so there’s room to improve.

I've got to say, old as it is, the visuals for the first Dred Film were just so good. They drew you into this fantasy sci-fi futuristic world.

The new Dred had better visuals after decades of advance, but it didn't feel like a fantastical future. It just felt like a regular modern day city with some big city blocks. Heck the City Blocks themselves stood out like a sore thumb. There just wasn't enough.
Now I'm guessing part of this was a budget and conceptual restriction which made them lean hard into an indoor based film; but even so they could have been a little more bold.

In defence of Dredd’s MC-1 visuals? It is what we see in the prequel Young Dredd Strips, which take place before, during and immediately after the war which created the Cursed Earth.

Whilst there are Mega-Blocks at that point, the mega structures haven’t yet come to dominate the skyline.

We’re also not sure where that Dredd’s timeline is up to. Dredd himself is of course ageless, so no help there. But Anderson? When we first meet her in Judge Death, she’s a well established Psi Judge. Certainly of sufficient standing that her eccentricities are overlooked due to her inestimable value as a powerful Psychic.

So there, she’s clearly older than her Dredd incarnation.

Timeline wise it seems Dredd and Rico graduated to full Judges in 2079, and Anderson was born in 2080. Judge Death first shows up in 2102. So Anderson would be 21 or 22 at that point,

We know that Judge Giant graduated at 15, and was at the time the youngest “Full Eagle”. So presumably most graduate between 16-18, usual school leaving age.

So….i honestly don’t bloody know! But that we’ve seen earlier versions of a less built up MC-1 in the main canon? It could simply be that Dredd’s MC-1 simply developed more slowly.

Also the 95 movie has the cooler bike...

For a 90's comic book movie, its pretty damn good.

I had never read a Dredd comic prior to seeing it, but it succeeded in making me buy some comics, which I think was the point of a comic book movie back then, before they took over/eclipsed the industry they were created in.

Loved it. Great sci-fi fun. As one who didn't read the Dredd comics( we were into Rogue Trooper instead ), we went in with an open mind and took it at face value. Back then we had a choice; stay in and suffer Eastenders or "Corrie", or grab our coats and watch this at the pictures instead...

Did anyone use the classic curse Drokk it! In either movie?

Also, both movies could have used Anthrax's metal classic "I am the Law" in the credits.

I'll point to my comments in your Ghostbusters thread for this.

I enjoyed it immensely when it came out..was very entertaining.

I also really enjoyed the urban Dredd as well.

Both for different reasons. Art and enjoyment are subjective and the wine tasting snobbery of film review really doesn't do anything for me.

I think Drokk does show up in Judge Dredd.

Dredd however is packed with Easter Eggs. Proper blink and you’ll miss it stuff in the graffiti and signage. And lines such as bodies for Resyk.

For those not familiar with the comics? In MC-1, very little goes to waste. Only the truly wealthy can afford a proper funeral and keep the body. Everyone else goes to Resyk, which renders the body down into useful chemical compounds.

It’s not Soylent Green or Corpse Starch, but it is pretty grim. Especially, given religion isn’t outlawed, if your religion is sensitive toward burial rites etc.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Iwhile the 2012 Dredd at the time felt like an US version of The Raid (2011) to me

That's because it is

I really enjoyed Dredd but I haven't actually seen the Stallone version. I think part of the problem is that at the time Demolition Man was still fresh in everyone's mind. I think that film clicked with audiences of the time in a way that colored a lot of expectations of what a Stallone lead film about a satirical dystopian police should be.

Dredd was in production before The Raid. Convergent Evolution and that.


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 LunarSol wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Iwhile the 2012 Dredd at the time felt like an US version of The Raid (2011) to me

That's because it is

I really enjoyed Dredd but I haven't actually seen the Stallone version. I think part of the problem is that at the time Demolition Man was still fresh in everyone's mind. I think that film clicked with audiences of the time in a way that colored a lot of expectations of what a Stallone lead film about a satirical dystopian police should be.

I’d honestly recommend giving it a watch. It Is A Good Film In Its Own Right.

Not a great film. Not a genre defining or redefining film. But Good enough to be somewhat beyond Cromulent.