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 Insectum7 wrote:
The guy with a bionic eye and single, larger Powerfist taken from an enemy, vs. the guy with a bionic eye and two Powerfists taken from an enemy!

Huh, I guess Imperials loot stuff almost as much as Orks! Hey, that's our schtick! Don't make us loot your plot armour!

 JNAProductions wrote:
I’d like it if Calgar’s plan doesn’t go so well, quite possibly due to something Yarrick predicted.
Let the protagonists (1) be fallible and (2) fight amongst themselves.

Nobody's plan goes well in the campaign fluffs, its how they maintain the status quo.

1) That means they are fallible.

2a) They frequently fight among themselves. Remember Logan Grimnar vs the Inquisition?
2b) What makes you think the Imperium is the protagonist?

Breton wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
I’d like it if Calgar’s plan doesn’t go so well, quite possibly due to something Yarrick predicted.
Let the protagonists (1) be fallible and (2) fight amongst themselves.

Nobody's plan goes well in the campaign fluffs, its how they maintain the status quo.

1) That means they are fallible.

2a) They frequently fight among themselves. Remember Logan Grimnar vs the Inquisition?
2b) What makes you think the Imperium is the protagonist?

Eh. It's rare to see screw-ups from Loyalists that have meaning.

And for 2a, that's from The Emperor's Gift, right?
For 2b... Look at the advertising for 40k. Look at which faction gets the most goodies, in terms of models, rules, videogames...

The Imperium ain't a good faction, but they're the default protagonist.

 JNAProductions wrote:
[Eh. It's rare to see screw-ups from Loyalists that have meaning.

I'll try this again with emphasis: its how they maintain the status quo.

And for 2a, that's from The Emperor's Gift, right?

And just about every Dawn of War campaign, etc.

For 2b... Look at the advertising for 40k. Look at which faction gets the most goodies, in terms of models, rules, videogames...

The Imperium ain't a good faction, but they're the default protagonist.

That doesn't make them the protagonist. Aliens have been in more movies than Sigourney Weaver. This does not make Aliens the protagonist.

Protagonist =/= hero.

The protagonist is just the person whom the story follows.

 BorderCountess wrote:
Protagonist =/= hero.

The protagonist is just the person whom the story follows.

I didn't say the Aliens weren't the heroes. They eat people. That's pretty far from heroic to... people. I said they weren't the protagonist. I used them as an example of "getting more" not automatically making someone the protagonist. I will add "getting more" doesn't automatically make you the hero either. Are you saying the Aliens are the protagonists in the franchise?

I believe that Warhammer 40k should absolutely not have a protagonist faction.

However, I believe it DOES have one, and it's absolutely the Imperium.

Almost all stories are told from an Imperial POV. Almost all setting information is given from an Imperial POV. The framing of stories and narratives is often decidedly on the Imperial side. The artwork most often shows Imperials as the central figures fighting whatever alien menace is around. If you play computer games, in almost all of the computer games you will play an Imperial faction. If you can play as other factions it may be outside of any kind of story mode etc.

How can you argue that they're not the protagonist then? It seems ludicrous to me.

You might argue that there is no protagonist (and I wish it were so!) but if there is a protagonist it is the Imperium and it's very hard to see who else it could be.

I'd argue that settings don't have protagonists, stories do.

Aye, and I much prefer 40K as setting but they've been moving more and more toward 40K as story for at least 20 odd years sadly.

To play devil's advocate, Marneus Calgar did have one thing going for him. One of the best Space Marine poses ever.

In the olden days of yore, he didn't need to get fully dressed or get out of his chair to kick your ass.

 Da Boss wrote:
I believe that Warhammer 40k should absolutely not have a protagonist faction.

However, I believe it DOES have one, and it's absolutely the Imperium.

Almost all stories are told from an Imperial POV. Almost all setting information is given from an Imperial POV. The framing of stories and narratives is often decidedly on the Imperial side. The artwork most often shows Imperials as the central figures fighting whatever alien menace is around. If you play computer games, in almost all of the computer games you will play an Imperial faction. If you can play as other factions it may be outside of any kind of story mode etc.

How can you argue that they're not the protagonist then? It seems ludicrous to me.

You might argue that there is no protagonist (and I wish it were so!) but if there is a protagonist it is the Imperium and it's very hard to see who else it could be.

I think anyone who argues they are not the protagonist is either exploring the argument for its own sake or simply doing it as a bit.

It's really not in question.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
To play devil's advocate, Marneus Calgar did have one thing going for him. One of the best Space Marine poses ever.

In the olden days of yore, he didn't need to get fully dressed or get out of his chair to kick your ass.

Just like the OG throned Genestealer Patriarch.