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Also when that first came up it said it could be attached to warbikes just been on again and that is now no longer on the datasheet

Thanks for that. I was feeling like I'd gone crazy.

Not just me then


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I wanted it to be like the SM invaders that can be attached to outrider squads.

Adding the dakkastorm rule from warbikers to the trakk would make the big shoota ap-1 and the rokkits ap -3 at the closest enemy unit

I wonder if they initially put up the codex datasheet rather than the launch box datasheet.
Launch box has no warbikes, so no reason for them to be on there and might just cause confusion when the datasheets in the launch box don't match the ones on Warcom, and the ones in the starter sets would be referring to units that aren't in the box.

If certain rumors are true, Outriders will no longer be taking Invader ATVs as part of their units, as the ATV is getting squatted. I sure hope that's not true. In any case, I doubt the Wartrakk will be able to join Warbikers, but it might somehow benefit from being near them or something (maybe in one of the new detachments we haven't seen yet, something that will be in their shiny new codex?).

** Let's see how da beakies like it!

Aren't "beakies" a not-so-common sight in 40K these days?

SamusDrake wrote:

** Let's see how da beakies like it!

Aren't "beakies" a not-so-common sight in 40K these days?

It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense in game either. Mk. 6 Corvus armor didn’t have that long a run in the grand scheme of things. Most of the crusades would have been done in older marks, and Mk 7 took over for most of the Imperiums next 10k years.

But the RTB01 box with it’s plastic beakies was the early lifeblood of 40k, and made an impression on the slang of the orks. To be fair, in modern linguistics we still have a lot of sayings that linger long after their original relevance stopped.

Don't be silly, you know the entire universe just timeskipped from like M32.1 to M41.9 and literally nothing changed in the interim whatso ever

Ravenguard still heavily favour the MkVI helm.

Of course, they’re Ravenguard so you won’t be seeing them anyway.

I think all the attempts to write into the lore when each mark of armour was issued and for how long etc is kind of counter-productive, and it's better to just think "it's a big universe and different forge worlds are cranking out all sorts of crap and we have to use whatever we can get even if they didn't get the memo that we have better designs now" than it is to worry about why a mkvi helmet built in m31 has survived 10000 years of battle only to be passed down to Brother Jeff, Primaris Intercessor #6,890,245 and not, say, venerated in a shrine on Terra.

Billicus wrote:
I think all the attempts to write into the lore when each mark of armour was issued and for how long etc is kind of counter-productive, and it's better to just think "it's a big universe and different forge worlds are cranking out all sorts of crap and we have to use whatever we can get even if they didn't get the memo that we have better designs now" than it is to worry about why a mkvi helmet built in m31 has survived 10000 years of battle only to be passed down to Brother Jeff, Primaris Intercessor #6,890,245 and not, say, venerated in a shrine on Terra.

Exactly! I bet theres all kinds of armour unique combos. Some by chance or convenience others by tradition etc.

Billicus wrote:
I think all the attempts to write into the lore when each mark of armour was issued and for how long etc is kind of counter-productive, and it's better to just think "it's a big universe and different forge worlds are cranking out all sorts of crap and we have to use whatever we can get even if they didn't get the memo that we have better designs now" than it is to worry about why a mkvi helmet built in m31 has survived 10000 years of battle only to be passed down to Brother Jeff, Primaris Intercessor #6,890,245 and not, say, venerated in a shrine on Terra.

Yep, definitely. The current lore when a bunch of armour marks were introduced in couple of decades and then basically nothing changed for ten millennia is blatantly absurd. Best not think about it.

And of course orks call marines "beakies" because they have taste and recognise the best and the most iconic helmet.

For what it’s worth? I think the whole MkX armour is cool. But, offering properly uniform Power Armour was something of a stylistic error.

Post Heresy, grubbing around in the storage archives to cobbled together a full suit out of whatever you had lying around really spoke of fallen Grandeur. Likewise the background of particularly venerated relic pieces of power armour being assigned as an honorific.

11th Ed is clawing some of that back, and I for one welcome it. Whilst not quite the same echoes of past glory, more “even with Cawl coming in clutch, he’s simply tipped the scales somewhat, and the Chapters are still having to make do and mend”. It reintroduces a certain desperation to things.

Is it really clawing some of that back? The Intercessors they've shown off aren't anything we've not already seen on Space Wolves, Black Templars etc already in 9th and 10th.

It's a bunch of variant MKX legs and helmets that have swapped out their faceplates to resemble older marks.

Yeah, I think I'd say that about pretty much the entirety of the primaris project as a storyline/concept - always felt a bit out of step with what came before. I can see why they did it though and it's preferable to just retconning space marines to always have been bigger and organised in monoequip squads right from day 1 - that would've pissed people off. By the time the last firstborn kits are out of print and they do do that retcon, nobody's really going to mind.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Is it really clawing some of that back? The Intercessors they've shown off aren't anything we've not already seen on Space Wolves, Black Templars etc already in 9th and 10th.

It's a bunch of variant MKX legs and helmets that have swapped out their faceplates to resemble older marks.

Sure, Space Wolves and to some lesser degree already did it. But it still nice that it is becoming the new norm. And sure, it is really mostly MK X, but it achieves the similar cobbled together look like the old tactical squads had, without looking like deformed squats. Granted, the lack of beakies is a shame, but I already have bunch of beakie helmets and studded shoulderpads ready for fixing that.

And I really do not care about the fictional armour history and whether the kits match that, as it is a bunch of absolute nonsense to begin with.

Order forms have gone out to retailers early, still due on Tuesday. Doesn’t list a price or release date this time. Have to order in case counts of three.

Billicus wrote:
By the time the last firstborn kits are out of print and they do do that retcon, nobody's really going to mind.

Considering they are still making new CSM and 30k kits that are decidedly neither Primaris in scale nor design, is there any indication that this is a retcon they plan on doing?

Just my uninformed reckon that that's how it'll shake out, nothing more. Not sure about "decidedly" though, CSM models are certainly getting bigger, the new red corsairs are noticeably bigger than the legionnaire kit in my opinion and 30k models are also bigger than they used to be. I do think this is the way the wind's blowing but it's just my idle speculation really.

30k models are just caught up to CSM scale.

Some outliers exist, like the plastic 30k Praetors and the Red Corsairs, but they're rare.

Well, for one, the ability to wear firstborn helmets at all means the "Primaris bigger" thing is largely not really a thing anymore.

I'd say the most obvious example of the future is Space Marine 2. It contains a Rubicon storyline but after the term Primaris never exists in the game again. Beyond the tutorial marines are marines. There's no "firstborn" in any distinction. Marines are just marines and have always been marines.

Yessum. Firstborn don't appear or get a mention in anything licensed to the best of my knowledge - games or animation.

 LunarSol wrote:
Well, for one, the ability to wear firstborn helmets at all means the "Primaris bigger" thing is largely not really a thing anymore.

Unsure what you mean by this. They've always been compatible with firstborn pauldrons and helmets. This is true both for the physical miniatures and the fact that Primaris characters have kept wearing relic helmets and the like (like the BT Helm of the Crusader).




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Billicus wrote:
Yessum. Firstborn don't appear or get a mention in anything licensed to the best of my knowledge - games or animation.

Obviously. GW is increasingly no longer selling loyalist Firstborn, so has no interest in placing emphasis on them. It's like Vampire Counts in TOW. They're a legacies PDF faction that GW isn't interested in selling for TOW right now so the spotlight doesn't go in their direction. That doesn't mean they're just going to retcon them into no longer existing.

It doesn't not mean it either though, and you asked me if there's any indication they plan on doing it. Those things fit the bill. We've probably derailed the thread enough with this.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/ljjrhwi0/new40k-rules-eradicators-bring-death-to-horde-infantry/

I don’t think there is anything new there. Relevant note is that the “blast” rule comes with a number, so blast 1 is one extra shot per 5 guy, but blast 2 would be 2/5. Interesting to see what kind of guns would get the new number. But I like the concept of scaling numbers on special rules like this.

Billicus wrote:
By the time the last firstborn kits are out of print and they do do that retcon, nobody's really going to mind.

There's going to be a minimum of one person that is going to mind if they try and retcon things like that.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Well, for one, the ability to wear firstborn helmets at all means the "Primaris bigger" thing is largely not really a thing anymore.

Unsure what you mean by this. They've always been compatible with firstborn pauldrons and helmets. This is true both for the physical miniatures and the fact that Primaris characters have kept wearing relic helmets and the like (like the BT Helm of the Crusader).

I just can't imagine that people a foot taller can wear the same size helmet is all.

Billicus wrote:
Yessum. Firstborn don't appear or get a mention in anything licensed to the best of my knowledge - games or animation.

The dude from Boltgun (Malum Caedo) seems to be one.

Good point! How could I forget Caedo? Boltgun is sort of a "period piece" though, it's deliberately nostalgic.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/7sbdglda/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-drukhari/

Thinking about how GW has been pushing the 3-in-1 army style for DE with wyches/kabal/homoculus lines, 11th might actually be a good fit for their army constuction.