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How do you feel when people try to force one universe into another when wargaming?
Let's just assume all models are WYSIWYG, and acceptably modeled. (And not totally world breaking, like playing StarCraft with My Little Pony figures). I'f someone showed up with a GI Joe/ Cobra themed Imperial Guard army with helmeted Guardsmen painted blue with Tanks converted to look like Cobra Hiss tanks (counting as Taurox) would it be cool, or just annoying?
I ask this because I'm planning a conversion idea I had from over 20 years ago. Anyone here old enough to have gamed on an N64? I'd like to 3D model and print a Goliath tank from the game Battletanx. Not sure which race to theme it for though. Imperial Guard, Orks, and Votaan all seem like good choices.
It depends on how its done. Often a fun and memorable gimmick, but it can be overdone to the point of distracting.
I think I'm a little less tolerant of it in the age of Fornite where every fictional world becomes a license IP salad. That said, Battletanx definitely leans more on the "cool reference" end of the spectrum. It's obscure enough to blend in just fine and fit more as an easter egg than a distracting cameo.
Depends on the narrative and your opponents.
I'm using Giger-Aliens in our OPR games that are taking place in the 40K universe, but it's quite easy to see them as some strain of tyranids or Genestealers. I plan to throw some of the upcoming Zerg into that army.
My Stargrave Team consists of a Romulan Captain and First officer supported by Ripley, Bishop, 2 40K Orks and a Grot. Stargrave has a very open background though so you're supposed to do some mixing.
Overall it's simply a question of what you and your opponents feel fitting for the universe/ setting you're playing in. Personally I wouldn't feel offended if your 40K Imperial Army were Gondorian archers from a feudal World, because that's totally possible in 40K. Others might not be a fan, though. I've seen comments of people being unhappy about others using their 40K collections in OPR instead of the official prints.
Starcraft Space Marines or SW Legion Stormtroopers as Tactical Marines might raise some eyebrows because some people have a very clear picture of Space Marines and might find it immersion breaking if these are supposed to be actual Space Marines and not just Elite Soldiers from a newly rediscovered world.
I don't mind at all.
And why should I? GWs been doing it for 40 years. From GW we've got numerous real world stuff masquerading as 40k units/vehicles, Judge Dredd, Terminator, Rambo, some Star Wars, etc etc etc.
So why would I get upset about fighting fan made Cobra or something?
I don't care what people do with their toy soldiers. Just tell me what it represents and lets game.
Commodus Leitdorf Paints all of the Things!! The Breaking of the Averholme: An AoS Adventure
"We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us." -Black Mage
For me this is no different to proxies and is less about lore and more about being part of the hobby and caring about it.
If their army looks like trash and extrudes an "I don't really care" attitude and such then I don't want to play.
If their army is all the same pose of the same "Box O Soldiers" plastic model so you can't tell anything aprt - I'm saying no thanks.
If they put down a nicely converted/custom/3d printed MLP Space Marine army - sure I'll play.
Heck I'm a big fan of One Page rules just for the fact that you can do just that. You can have two people with models from two different creators turn up and have a fun game against each other with quality models on both sides.
I don't need every game I play to fit into some lore construct. That's nice, don't get me wrong and its fantastic fun - but its not the only thing. The greater part is someone being part of the hobby; engaging with it in a fun way and having a great time.
Sure at things like a tournament I'd likely expect things to be more defined unless its the very nature of the tournament itself (eg an open OPR event supporting multi-creators
Imperial guard are an interesting one. Humans in different uniforms are just that a weak rifle is weak rifle. Stuff with a distinctive look is harder. So Starcraft marines would be a but differnt but worse their special and heavy weapons might not be distinct.
I am not fussed as long as I can tell with everything is rules wise.
As long as it’s vaguely WYSWYG I’m good with most anything. I don’t want to spend the whole game deciphering counts-as.
But a human with a rifle, a team with a ML, tank with a big gun. Lots of those out there in the wild world that could be shaped into a guard army with no confusion.
I like how it's a somewhat common opinion that GW rules are trash but folks stay in the ecosystem for the models and lore, but then get everyone being cool with disregarding the models and lore as long as you stay within the rules
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
lord_blackfang wrote: I like how it's a somewhat common opinion that GW rules are trash but folks stay in the ecosystem for the models and lore, but then get everyone being cool with disregarding the models and lore as long as you stay within the rules
For me, in the rural Midwest, finding ANYONE that wants to play ANY miniature wargame is a bit problematic. When I was more active, back in the day, I was basically limited to 40k, AOS, sometimes HeroClix, and if I was really, really lucky there were a handful of guys playing Warmachine. All that is assuming I want to drive 65-90 miles one-way on random days throughout the week. I never really got into AOS or Warmachine, so it's basically 40k or nothing.
Yeah, for the most part I’m just happy to get a game in. The advantage of GW is the huge installed userbase. I’ll play other games, but I’d probably have trouble finding a willing victim, place to play, and all the models/rules. On the flip side, I’m also down for trying pretty much any game out.
I’m easy like that.
lord_blackfang wrote: I like how it's a somewhat common opinion that GW rules are trash but folks stay in the ecosystem for the models and lore, but then get everyone being cool with disregarding the models and lore as long as you stay within the rules
Oh I will (and do) play just about anything.
Despite having a few of your incomes invested in GW models? I'm not married to GW. If they make models i like ill buy them. If someone else makes models I like? Ill buy them as well. I might very well use non-GW stuff in GW games.
And as long as its WYSIWYG, or reasonably WYSIWYG? I really dont care what models my opponents use. Thats between thier wallet & GW....
GW lore (any of their games)- I'm largely indifferent to it. There's bits i actually like & there's bits i hate. But overall? (Shrugs) Its never gotten in my way play-wise.
GWs rules? I disagree that they're trash.
Are they the best rules? No. But I've also played alot worse.
Overall I've had a lot of fun with GW rules through the years. I dont forsee that changing with 40k 11e, so no reason to quit.
I remember those games, I could see that working in 40k.
Some of the tanks felt like they used the same inspiration that the GW teams were using at the time, if not 40k itself.
If you're already doing 3D you could do an imperial guard version then orkify it later?
First off, heck yeah for Battletanks. I played the heck out of that game in the 90s.
I do prefer gaming in an established setting such as SW, 40k, BT, etc, but as long as the models are painted I'm probably going to enjoy myself.
When we play Grimdark Future, most of us are playing 40k or 40k'ish factions and 40k is a pretty wide sandbox anyway. However, one of our players has a Cat Girls Guard army and I frequently field Kaman Space Apes from AT43 as Tau Allies using Terminator stats.
Things are even more loose in fantasy gaming where many of our age of fantasy armies are Warhammer or WHFB-adjacent, but we've also got Tharks and Runewars Daqan forces.
We haven't done it, but Grimdark Future and Age of Fantasy are completely compatible games so you could have wood elves vs space Marines.
I don't like out-of-setting armies - joke armies, cross-over armies etc. If I choose a setting to play in I want some consistency.
It is similar to other narrative games. For example if I want to run a serious, mature, low-fantasy, iron age RPG I don't want my players to come with characters like a Ninja Turtle inspired samurai.
I get super bored of companies pushing IPs on each other, trying to jam every IP into every other setting.
I've never been a fan of 'themed' armies that don't fit the specific setting,I'm also not much of a fan of themed paint jobs either 'captain america paint job marines' or 'monster drink titans'. But each to their own, people can do what they like. I just don't want to break my own immersion having to play against 'minion' or 'my little pony' themed armies. But that said, I've never had to play against any of these kinds of armies and never would.
Then again, I acknowledge I am a hypocrite when it comes to mixing IPs. I have a very old set of the Pokéthulhu miniatures (Pokemon/Cthulhu mixed miniatures) which I brought on a whim many years ago, not knowing it was for a 'real' game (local comic store was selling a Tshirt and the minis and I just thought it was a funny shirt)
I'm using some of the marvel protocol models as proxies for characters for Judge Dredd/2000 ad after the miniature game has been cancelled yet again and there are missing models from the range. If companies didn't jam IPs together all the time, we'd not have the Batman/TMNT film which I actually really liked. And because of that I'll probably run a Judge Dredd/Batman/TMNT campaign at some point (As we have had Dredd V Batman and Batman/TMNT, seeing as they would fit the recent acquisition of terrain I have gotten, and would be kind of fun). But I at least try to keep it 'on theme'. No 'adventure time' or 'south park' Vs Dredd campaigns.
Cyel wrote: I don't like out-of-setting armies - joke armies, cross-over armies etc. If I choose a setting to play in I want some consistency.
It is similar to other narrative games. For example if I want to run a serious, mature, low-fantasy, iron age RPG I don't want my players to come with characters like a Ninja Turtle inspired samurai.
I think expectation management is important here. When I head down to the FLGS to get a game, I’m ready to throw dice against anything that shows up on the other side of the table. Joke army, counts-as, or rivet counting lore accurate. It’s a pick up game. I take what I get.
If I was playing in a narrative crusade or escalation league? Where there is an expectation and effort to keep things grounded in the universe? I'd suggest that the oddball armies might want to sit it out. Sure you could write in some warp-rift alternate demon world things to explain the My Little Pony marines. But please don’t.
Cyel wrote: I don't like out-of-setting armies - joke armies, cross-over armies etc. If I choose a setting to play in I want some consistency.
It is similar to other narrative games. For example if I want to run a serious, mature, low-fantasy, iron age RPG I don't want my players to come with characters like a Ninja Turtle inspired samurai.
I think expectation management is important here. When I head down to the FLGS to get a game, I’m ready to throw dice against anything that shows up on the other side of the table. Joke army, counts-as, or rivet counting lore accurate. It’s a pick up game. I take what I get.
If I was playing in a narrative crusade or escalation league? Where there is an expectation and effort to keep things grounded in the universe? I'd suggest that the oddball armies might want to sit it out. Sure you could write in some warp-rift alternate demon world things to explain the My Little Pony marines. But please don’t.
Ok, wish granted. You wont receive any explanation for the wacky stuff you face....
I think there needs to be a firm line drawn between counts-as armies, one-off miniatures in a larger army, and "this is just painted in the style of" armies.
The first (regardless of how cool or uncool it is) might be hard to remember what is what.
The second is still a proxy, but a single miniature or two isn't hard to keep track of, especially if it fits the theme of the rest of the "legitimate" army.
The third would rarely, if ever bother me. Playing 40k with 40k models just painted to look like US Army Rangers, Starship Troopers, GI Joe, etc. isn't an issue at all.
Now, this reminded me of this video (or the linked part of the video that starts at 11:50 ... timestamp link doesn't seem to work here for some reason, unfortunately :( ) :
I have a similar sentiment for joke characters in RPGs and joke models/armies in miniature wargaming. I'm all about uniqueness and creativity (one of the reasons I don't play historicals is that I think my creativity would be too severely limited there) but these are just too cheap and lazy and their "fun uniqueness" wears off in seconds.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2026/05/25 08:29:15
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