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Maybe this fact can redeem the Rolling Deff detatchment over picking maybe more dakka which i assume people will do.

Because when you have 3 different melee profiles getting extra attacks from a waagh, you can then add the cleave rule on top of it for one more extra attack per weapon.

Suddenly Wagons and hunta/kill rigs look pretty good in melee

Beardedragon wrote:
Maybe this fact can redeem the Rolling Deff detatchment over picking maybe more dakka which i assume people will do.

Because when you have 3 different melee profiles getting extra attacks from a waagh, you can then add the cleave rule on top of it for one more extra attack per weapon.

Suddenly Wagons and hunta/kill rigs look pretty good in melee

Hopefully that's the case as I've got a lot of rigs and a wagon in my list ATM. I've also even thought about just tacking on a random 1DP detachment that I don't get much, if any, benefit from just to get access to a favourable disposition.

Further to that, I'm actually considering adding a Wartrakk to my list to fill out those 60 points in my list. It's durable-ish, fast, and can potentially do some extra damage at range. The -1 to hit effect might also help out. The plan would be to use it as an alternative to Stormboys or Warbikes for grabbing objectives and/or screening.

I'll do some meddling and report back.

I'm just going to glue the old rokkit buggies to a base to get wartrakks. Not a huge fan of the new model to be honest.

But they definitely have great stats. I'm still trying to figure out how to make kult of speed work with buggies, wartrakks and maybe a burnabommer or a dakkajet.

Im curious, you guys like the wartrike? I initially liked it because it could follow warbikers around.

But its the same price as 3 warbikers, which has more wounds and would be over all more durable.

So i assumed just 3 warbikers would be a better deal.

It might eventually find a place but I suspect at the moment its a piece that's in need of some greater changes coming with the codex. It's currently... fine.

Beardedragon wrote:
Im curious, you guys like the wartrike? I initially liked it because it could follow warbikers around.

But its the same price as 3 warbikers, which has more wounds and would be over all more durable.

So i assumed just 3 warbikers would be a better deal.

Like LunarSol said, on paper it's currently fine. Not unusably bad, but not amazing either.

I'm not too fussed about it's lesser durability compared to bikers. However it does occupy less space (both on the table and in my game bag), and can contribute to my shooting phase if I need it to.

Realistically I would be using it to zip around and screen/control objectives/board quarters much like I would be using the bikers so if it can do that as well as or better than bikers then I'll keep using it. Everything else it has going for it as above is incidental.

I'm getting one in the Armageddon box, so I might as well give it a go.

I see nice 4 months of modeling and painting in front of me!. and having fun reading the tales of a Great Chaos Of New Edition to be ready for pre-christmas dataslate after which the rules becames finaly pretty stabile and balanced…


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm just going to glue the old rokkit buggies to a base to get wartrakks. Not a huge fan of the new model to be honest.

But they definitely have great stats. I'm still trying to figure out how to make kult of speed work with buggies, wartrakks and maybe a burnabommer or a dakkajet.

I solved it. I gonna wait for the codex. I bet it cannot be worse and new speedfreak char + wartraks (cheap utility units!) hleps the list a lot

I 'm neither the fan of this model. It looks… simply bad. Great conversion opportunity!

If the Wartrakk ends up being decent I'll likely convert a Wartrike I've got laying around and stick some Tankbustas in place of the boss

 Jidmah wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

How do you figure?

Mostly because it's literally written in the updated rules section for the 11th edition faction pack, which is confirmed by the app itself.
The faction pack is linked in the first post, feel free to give it a read.
The datasheets in the Armageddon box have no relevance unless you play the exact army contained in that box, which has been confirmed by GW multiple times now.

Obviously, the doc was still a leader when I wrote this post, but you can still do Thrakka/Big Mek/Painboy now, which arguably is even better.

I see. They posted currently have two different faction packs, confusingly, one of them says version 1.3, whereas the other one is version 1.0, which is the one in the OP listed under New Edition, which threw me off when I was looking.

I guess you could also put Thrakka/Painboy/Weirdboy as well.

Boyz are more interesting regardless due to the points cost, but I wonder what the actual value will be of having the free shootas/choppas baked in.

oi ladz, does anyone know when new recruit will get updated with 11th edition ork stuff? I'm hoping they'll get it done by or around the 20th, but I have no clue. I'm just asking because I want to update my list so I can start playing. It's the only alternative that I found since I have to have a codex just to look at stat lines of models in the Warhammer 40,000 app (which is zogging annoying when the codex is about to get invalidated in Orktober!)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TedNugent wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

How do you figure?

Mostly because it's literally written in the updated rules section for the 11th edition faction pack, which is confirmed by the app itself.
The faction pack is linked in the first post, feel free to give it a read.
The datasheets in the Armageddon box have no relevance unless you play the exact army contained in that box, which has been confirmed by GW multiple times now.

Obviously, the doc was still a leader when I wrote this post, but you can still do Thrakka/Big Mek/Painboy now, which arguably is even better.

I see. They posted currently have two different faction packs, confusingly, one of them says version 1.3, whereas the other one is version 1.0, which is the one in the OP listed under New Edition, which threw me off when I was looking.

I guess you could also put Thrakka/Painboy/Weirdboy as well.

Boyz are more interesting regardless due to the points cost, but I wonder what the actual value will be of having the free shootas/choppas baked in.

iz is confused , which one is the one that's valid? And the data cards from the box set aren't actually going to be what the rest of the stuff is going to be?

Beardedragon wrote:
Im curious, you guys like the wartrike? I initially liked it because it could follow warbikers around.

But its the same price as 3 warbikers, which has more wounds and would be over all more durable.

So i assumed just 3 warbikers would be a better deal.

I like the model. Thats enough for me to uee it.
Ill worry about making it work rules wise/effectively once Ive A) built it, B) built some other Orks stuff to go with it (it doesn't really fit in my grot tank force)
I also dont look at units as being either/or. There's nothing stopping me from having both a Trike AND a unit of bikes.

 Mrangryork wrote:
iz is confused , which one is the one that's valid? And the data cards from the box set aren't actually going to be what the rest of the stuff is going to be?

The faction pack listed under #new40k is valid, as it is both newer and has a higher version.

You can find all datasheets for new units in the faction pack, just ignore the cards.

Or, if you bought the codex, just use the updated app.

Looking at some of the drops, I could also see myself swapping a kill rig for a hunta rig and upping one of my Snagga units to 20. This also covers the 60 points being occupied by the Wartrike of that doesn't look like it's going to pan out.

Do you have any good experience with units of 20? I've always found that beast snagga boyz crush or bounce of targets irrespective of the unit size. For me, the strength buff and flamer always added up to more than the extra 10 choppas.

Their biggest value to me has always been that they are annoying to remove from forward objectives, but you don't need a rig to do that.

 Jidmah wrote:
Do you have any good experience with units of 20? I've always found that beast snagga boyz crush or bounce of targets irrespective of the unit size. For me, the strength buff and flamer always added up to more than the extra 10 choppas.

Their biggest value to me has always been that they are annoying to remove from forward objectives, but you don't need a rig to do that.

Only really in 1000 points games thus far, where they either take over the midboard and become a nightmare to deal with, or a unit with flamers turns up and deletes them.

I'm toying with the idea purely because I just happen to have the models and I'm already running 3 rigs and 30 Snaggas, so 40 Snaggas isn't too far a diversion

Ouch to the edits to Taktikal Brigade and More Dakka.

I was looking forward to potentially messing with More Dakka and making some oldschool shoota boyz with maybe some stompy and shooty infantry support, but they straight up deleted walkers from the rule and removed all the close combat related strategems, and Gitfinda Squig.

The rules seem even more discombobulated and scattered than usual between editions.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Mrangryork wrote:
iz is confused , which one is the one that's valid? And the data cards from the box set aren't actually going to be what the rest of the stuff is going to be?

The faction pack listed under #new40k is valid, as it is both newer and has a higher version.

You can find all datasheets for new units in the faction pack, just ignore the cards.

Or, if you bought the codex, just use the updated app.

Thanks, boss. I'll get my computing squigs on it now.

With too much downtime at work this week, I've been doing some more finkin' and I quite like the look of a lone Squigosaur with Proper Killy in DBH. It's essentially the same as it was in 10th but I'd never considered it before.

- cheaper than Mozrog and/or Hogs
- pretty fast
- fairly durable
- not too big so somewhat hideable
- base isn't massive so not overly cloggy
- good number of D3 and D4 attacks, at -2 and -3 respectively against Prey units
- free regular Heroic, and 1 cost enhanced Heroic

Could make for a handy missile-type unit or something a bit sturdier (if more expensive) to grab objectives with considering it can actually clear things off on it's own.

Something else I'll tinker with.

Had my first game of 11th today with ORKS and it was great. The new edition really has made many bits work better like terrain, secondaries and battle shock.

We went up against death guard and due to luck I think the ORKS got the better primary for the armies brought.

I ran freebooter krew and more Dakka, even with all the -1 to hit from plagues and stuff the shooting was still effective. Using the loot objective rule was good with the terrain because multiple units were easily on objectives.

Ended up with a resounding 80-39 win thanks to being able to score secondaries and smashing take and hold. New Gw app was decent too. Linked each others armies and kept track of all the scores and stuff.

Some things i picked up

mek guns can get assault under dakka with a character > thx to art of war for the tip
No idea if that is any good, but i can see a big mek added to allow them to ignore ruins and assault.

boss nob is going 40mm base in boy bricks
i suspect that nobs will receive new mini's prepare those base's

APP still not working properly, so currently using just for points

having heard Jidmah arguments, i remade my list

dunno if it's good, but what ever its for fun

almost everything i has inv and fnp and i get 2 nice missions

bricks alsoget enhance for reroll advance and charge

and one of boss nobs extra S

Its for fun and to see how viable it is and what ever, i am picking a foot-slog and see how it works

If missions objectives are as big as i think this might cause brick of boyz to be viable.
Not sure about dakkarig, their durability might be their greatest asset, and will it keep the opponent honest? We will see, other possibilities is full burnaboys with assault, lootas, flashgits

App was glitching for me but there was a new update couple of days ago that fixed it.

Re: the new Wartrakk. I think instead of comparing it to bikers, it's better to look at it as a smaller, cheaper Kustom Boosta Blasta. The suppression fire is a really nice thing to have. The smaller footprint is a big selling point also, for deployment and hiding.

Ok, so just had a game

greentide + dakka
vs
nids with assimilation + warrior detach

purge(orks) vs take and hold (nids)

quick takes since i don't wish to bore anyone with details, unless requested...

shooting, you need speed or assault and something to handle cover or its worthless.

lootas, burnas and flash gitz look realy good.

While tankbustas and other are nice, your likely shooting on 6, one because you need to get close and 2 cover, heavy or plunge is not gona work unless your already on the line of fire.
if your opponent brings infantry and hides, gl dislodging with shooting since you need to get close.
This brings the other thing, high ranges is worthless if you cant get close 15, so the ground even further decreases to 12 and since the objectives are huge, lootas or burnas with their rerolls always do something

none the less if your caught in the open your pretty much dead, ou dont want anything outside terrain

objectives being huge, its really easy to swing from objective to objective, to the point you can easily footslog to the mid, while fast armies will take advantage even more of it.

Not gonna lie, but scoring with purge was really easy, can see it being nerfed, i made my list thinking on my opponent being purge and tau and it showed

other things i am unsure:
transports, not really sure if needed, meganobz could have walked into most stuff no prob, probably replace with burna boyz
Meganobz are really cheap and good, pretty sad they get no support
Brick of boyz with 3 character can get hard to handle and effectively kill with always recovering boyz even if bodyguards die

flamer and shotguns are kings, psychic shots are evil(heads did a lot of damage but only t3 because of how slow they are).

i think the main stongest armies will be marines/tsons/Tau if they have good detach/dispositions the have the tools to handle a lot of the edition.

almost forgot, heroic intervention is amazing, flamers are kings of overwatch

I'm guessing the Ork Boyz were in the Green Tide detachment, then?

I'm wondering how they fare with assault as per the classic OG Shoota Boyz.

Frankly I wonder about burnas given their close range requirements and 12 PPM which is hard to swallow considering you don't even get the 5 full flamers.

I've always felt that Boyz would be much more interesting if you could take flamers instead of the usual big shoota/rokkit.

What about using firing ports/open topped with flamers as mobile armor?

I still feel like, given their durability limitations and mediocre close combat, burnas are underwhelming in terms of damage output. They only rate highly with auto hits compared to hitting on 5's or 6's. The -1 to hit cover skews this in an annoying way.

not sure what you mean were in green tide

it was yes green tide + more dakka

they benefit from both detach. its not like the FC of old.

been using trucks with 10flamers their pretty good in 10 , not sure now since transport rules.

Ta for the write up, very interesting.

Agree that transports are not needed, up to a point - on most maps even Manz can walk onto your natural, if that's where you want them, and you can slog stuff to the middle, but if you want to go anywhere else with infantry they need speed.

One thing to note with burna boyz is that they have to be within 6'' for their rule to trigger, so the sie of the objectives doesn't really make a difference.

For the reasons you have stated, the only detachments where I would invest heavily in shooting are Freebooterz and Dreadmob.

Transports not as needed anymore..

That is an interesting take. I have only had 1 battle so far against Emperors children and i list that by not a lot. The transports surely werent that useful there either. But i think if you play in to a ranged army, the added protection and extra jumping ramp of 3" extra move is still handy.

But maybe you guys are right, transports are not, AS needed as they used to be.

I've always used transports as a firing platform more than anything (Except back when red trukks went faster and open-topped let you move, disembark, charge). Such use has become less and less effective as the units invariably have some rule or other which makes them more effective at shooting when they aren't in a vehicle. Of late, trukks of shoota boyz has been about the only unit which hasn't been dumped in cover and the trukk wanders off to claim board quarters or objectives.

I wonder if shoota trukks are still viable? Benefit was getting a mek to slap the trukk on the backside and give it +1 to hit, which with 11 shootas in rapidfire range plus a rokkit was quite effective vs light infantry, and occasional tanks.

I've been considering it and I think we will see a move away from transports in the game in general, since the new emergency disembark, hazardous and battle shock rules make them a death sentence for the unit inside when they get blown up.

Still might be useful for being hidden, getting where you need to go and disembarking same turn, but since we can't charge, and don't get the benefit of Heavy after disembarking, it's very niche.

Transports that fight like Killrigs and Gorkanauts may still have a place. Detachments that have special rules for transports likewise, and hurling two 'ard case battlewagons at your opponent will still give him a headache but it depends what you want to put inside.

Quick question on support - can we have a blob of 20 boys with 2 leaders + 1 support?

I'm looking to have painboy, banner nob, plus big mek or warboss (depending on which type of boys!)