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I have been playing IG going on two years now.  I just LOVE the sentinel models cause I think they look cool.  However I never use them cause its been my experience that they suck with one exception, A10 open top bleh,

However some people seem to swear by them.  Are there any IG players out there that use the sentinels.   I think I am using them in a way that they are not intended to be used.  Does anyone have any advice?

1) Take them in seperate units whenever possible so they all can't be destroyed by a single enemy unit's shooting.

2) They can be great for two odd little tasks: holding up enemy assault units without a powerfist & capturing table quarters.

3) Keep them as cheap as possible (well, not flamer cheap, but multi-laser cheap).

4) Alternatively (to keeping them uber-cheap), if you're fielding them in a units 1: you can give 'em a Lascannon and Deep Strike them in as a suicide tank hunter. OR use the long range of the Lascannon (or Autocannon) to only pop out from behind cover when you're absolutely sure the enemy is out of return fire range.



Overall, Sentinels are just too expensive. They're very similar in cost to Pirahnas and Vypers but without the saving grace of being a fast vehicle. So they're only ever going to excel in wierd assignments that don't require them to trade fire with the enemy.

yeah you know I also think they are too expensve. WIth a ML they are the same price as a killer kan , but no S10 weapon. Personally I think they are the crappiest walker in the game. Its a shame cause the models are so nice.

Sentinels arnt tooo bad, they do have their uses. You should try to keep them low profile until the last moment when they can earn their points (taking a shot at big things in the rear/side, taking things), use them as an insurance policy incase that rhino thats charging at you is still in one pice, use them as a distraction or as a lure for blood frenzy and such things or use them to permenently hold ill-equipped combat units (as yak said), and if you use them with cunning you might be able to pin that annoying devistator squad (or anything similar) in the opponents line.

But they are most useful in cities of death, as there is a lot of cover and flamers are super useful, combined with their scout rule, you could be frying infiltrators on turn 1! and since they are walkers difficult terrain is not so evil and they can move and shoot nasty weapons.

I dodnt see why you see sentinels being that bad, they can be quite versitile, my IG has 4 (planning to do a 5th), haven't played a game that uses all of them but their future looks promising.

Cool, thanks I appreciate the advice.

I love Sentinels. I've got 12 of the things.

What you don't want Sentinels doing is drawing attention to themselves. Things that are threats are usually Target Number 1 for your opponents, so a bunch of Lascannon-toting Sentinels is bound to raise some eyebrows and see a volley of Heavy Bolter or Autocannon fire silencing an entire squadron. Instead, the Multi-Laser, which is 'only AP6', is the best bet. Most people don't realise what the Multi-Laser is capable of, especially as they tend to look at the AP value rather than the Strength value and rate of fire.

Combine that with an AV10 Open-Topped vehicle and most people will simply say 'How can that be dangerous?'. This is how Sentinels are used - by not drawing attention to themselves until they blow up a few critical transports, or something equally as important.

BYE

I've always used them in a fashion similar to the ones described by HBMC and Yakface. I have two, both armed with Multilasers. They're decent harasser units, and can actually inflict 0.75 glances and 1.5 penetrations against AV10 in a 6-turn game. They'll kill 0.875 AV10 vehicles each per game, compared to .5 glances and 2 penetrations against AV10 by a Lascannon, which may kill more points than a ML Sentinel, but they're higher profile (targetwise) and have a lower kill efficiency on a per-point basis.

Maths aside, Sentinels bring to bear an additional heavy weapon where needed, and are capable of weaving through dense terrain where a normal tank may not be able to go. As yak said, keep them Multilaser cheap - the pair of ML Sentinels I have are brutal in Combat Patrol.

CK

How about in LatD where IG armor is a premium?

This thread is interesting because it is openning my eyes to them.

Currently I run a Leman Russ / Basilisk combo in my LatD army. 2 lascannon traitor squads for anti armor. A third traitor guard could open up another slot for sentinels that could be worth it? Your thoughts?

I run 2 sentinels with autocannons. As mentioned above, you should always have something more threatening for the enemy to shoot at.

I use both as flankers, where I find the extra range provided by the atuocannons are crucial.

Something to consider, the autocannon has the same chance of brining down a fast moving eldar skimmer as the lascannon.

There are two ways to use Sentinels.

1. Take a few single Sentinels, one for the H.Q. plus one for eacgh FA slot you wish to use. Reminding yourself that Hellhounds and Rough Riders are also very good.

Now use the free move to hide them in enfilade positions. Snipe at incoming units from the flanks (while behind cover). Equip the sentinelas with weapons fopr the task, normally that means lascannon or multi-laser.

2. Take squadrons of three, again starting with the H.Q. and then using your FA slots. Keep them cheap, multi-lasers and nothing else. Now line them up behind your army relying on their long range. If you have other higher prifile targets such as Hellhounds and Russ nearby they likely wont get shot much. This doesnt work if the Sentinels are the only viable target.

Sentinels have another HUGE advantage over other walkers. They will ALWAYS start on the board. Remember that in Omega level games.

I once saw a Tau army get ripped to pieces on the first turn when 12 sentinels shot their lines to peices. ( 6 mulilasers, three autocannons, three lascannons and HK missiles).

Very few other armies can put that many heavy weapons on the board on the first turn when escalation is in play. Then you can just use the sentinels to kill any threat that comes on the board in the next few turns.

Ive watched a game were one sentinel kept a group of gargolyes(sp) in c/c for five turns(until end of game). I though it was funny watching the sentinel kill one gargolye a turn and watching the counter attacks.... it was the joke of the game. but seriously If i use them in my LATD army there just moblie las cannon platforms. there pretty much useless in the game except for taking table corners or contesting ......

I've used Sentinels as part of my Steel Legion army with the appropriate Steel Legion upgrades (Lascannon, armored crew compartment) and I've found they do well if you don't expect too much from them. Hide them from the enemy's guns for as long as possible and try to snipe at targets of opportunity.

As long as you focus on keeping them alive and keep moving them into a better position every turn (eg towards the objectives) they can be very helpful at killing the odd enemy unit and tying up weaker troops in close combat.

H.B.M.C.> I love Sentinels. I've got 12 of the things.

Yea me too, whats more mine all have closed tops on the models, and 2 magnetic hardpoints, fir a gun in the hull and a piece of gear on top.

Largely, and honestly, they suck.  here are a few screwball things I have done that were a blast, that I would highly reccomend:

Take 3 squads of pairs, with Heavy flamers, and hunter killer missiles, deepstrike them all and go for killing a target that is worth their cost or more in one volley.  I have actually done this to kill SM dreadnoughts and even a Leman Russ once, because if you can DS with them the flamer is S5 and an automatic hit, nice at BS3, and on rear armor, plus you get 2 tries, and then theres the missiles... Really awesome for killing open topped vehicles you can't normally catch like raiders and vipers.  Also great vs GEq.  But they always all die.

Play 12 with 1 antitank gun in each unit and as many tanks as you can fit in and go for the 2 many heavy weapon targets, honestly doesnt work to well, but 2 chimeras, 3 tanks and 12 sentinels leaves an opponent intimidated most of the time.  Sadly the hulking wrecks block LOS and its actually pretty hard to play, but it looks great.

Take 2 and use them as a little wall for your HQ flag to hide behind, make sure they are closed top or the penetrating 5/6 may blow up D6 inches and hurt your command squad.  Also fun, but a kind of half baked idea, cheaper than any of the tanks you can hide behind though...

Take 4 singles, and hide them and use them as scoring units.

Take 2 pairs of 2, with heavy flamers, and use the scout move to charge, go after infiltrators in HtH

Thats about all the ways I can think of that I used them that were ever even marginally productive, DSing the flamer Missile guys is probably the best use.

 

I've got 9 of them (3 close-top LC, 3 close-top AC, 2 open-top MuL and 1 open-top HF).

Unfortunately, the only time I fielded all 9 as drop troopers, I rolled alpha for mission level.

When deepstriking the HF Sentinel, it scatters into its target and dies more often than not. I suppose I could aim 12" away from the target, but then its more likely to be out of range and get creamed. I like the HF + HKmissile though, hadn't thought of that combo.

Do you guys really find closed-top to be worth it? 15 points is a huge additional cost; to equip one squad with closed-top, you could buy a whole other Sentinel. I'm thinking about cutting the closed-tops off of my 6 CT sentinels, just to make them cheaper and more disposable...

Augustus - "Yea me too, whats more mine all have closed tops on the models, and 2 magnetic hardpoints, fir a gun in the hull and a piece of gear on top."

That Augustus is why they suck. Sentinels go bang if shot at. Just accept it and take more, or hide them so they are only exposed to their targets. Trying to make them survivable is a huge waste of points.
Now if you have closed topped Sentinels because you like the ATST look I sympathise.

While I use Armored Crew Compartments because I had to when I built my Sentinels (it was required in the old Steel Legion List), I do find it to be a fairly useful upgrade. By increasing the cost of a Sentinel by about 33%, you improve its chances of not being destroyed by about 17%. More specifically, you double its survival rate against glancing hits which Sentinels get a lot of due to 1) the amount of ST 4 shots that come their way, and 2) their tendency to hide out in cover.

And really, is 15 (or 45) points such a big investment in the grand scheme of an army?

I have three Armageddon sentinels (lascannon extra armour and armoured top) inherited from a friend, he also had some Cadian pattern Sentinels (autocannon and extra armour). I passed the Cadian pattern ones on and kept the Armageddon ones because I love the models. However I prefer to use them as standard Sentinels with lascannons. Its not WYSIWYG but its not too hard to imagine 'unarmoured top', HUMMV's and Land Rovers have them.

Yers 45pts can be a lot in an army, its certainly a lot in 1500pts. In 2000pts (the size I normally play) its acceptable. 'Wastage' of around this many points is why Commissars are unpopular - though personally I like them as they add character to an army.

As for effectiveness you have hit it on the head, you are increasing cost by 33% and survivability by only 17%. Generally this means the upgrade is not worth it. Though I hate statistichammer, if you really need those Sentinels to survive to perform a role then the price will be worth it. But generally speaking you get the most from Sentinels by hiding them or overexposure.

I have never fielded a 12 Sentinel army, nor to I like armies that max out on any one thing (unless it is a troops choice) because I like variety. However the arguement of fielding 12 walkers on the table in escalation looks like a solid strategy.

What's that quote from Atlantis... oh yes:

"95% of deadly is still deadly!"

Increasing a Sentinels survivability by 17% isn't exactly a lot. No matter what upgrade you give them (EA, Armoured Top, or, Emperor-forbid, both), nothing will change the fact that they're AV10/10/10, and will die to just about anything.

Buying Armoured Tops and EA's on Sentinels is another example of throwing points at a weakness in the hope that it will go away. This is a false idea because the fragility of Sentinels does not go away, even when you throw +20 points at the problem. In fact, all it does is net your opponent an extra +20 points per Sentinel when a few stray heavy bolter shots rip the unit apart.

It's the same reason why taking Doctrines like Hardened Fighters and Carapace Armour are bad ideas - you should not be attempting to fix weaknesses via points expenditure. You should be using points to enhance your strengths.

The strength of the Sentinel is the fact that it's a cheap mobile heavy weapon. Add more points to it, and it ceases to be cheap. I'd rather take four 45 point sentinels (with change) than 3 65 point Sentinels.

BYE

I am 95% with HMBC.

However I have tried my AT-ST pattern (Armageddon) sentinels. The kit includes a frontplate so Steel Legion sentinels have both Extra Armour and Armoured Top. They also have lascannon by default. This costs 75pts rather than 45pts for the basic cheap Mars pattern multilaser Sentinel.
Nevertheless I tried them out, with mixed results. Here are my thoughts on the experiment.

My thoughts on lascannon sentinels applied, that is keep them in single units hide in enfilade and close off corridors of advance.

1. Extra 'protection' doesnt help against a dedicated attack with heavy weapons.

2. Lascannon are threatening enough, and theat can be a blessing as well as a curse. Close off LOS except for a corridor of fire and enemy tanks wont want to advance into the corridor. The principle being yes a tank can move in and fire its weapons with a good chance of a kill. But if it fails to hit the Sentinel has a good chance of a return kill. The difference being a Sentinel is worth the risk, maybe not so for a Pred.

3. Sentinels are perfect cover users, the weaopon is high up on the vehicle, which is otherwise compact. Sentinels can sit behind a small terrain feature and quite justifiably gain exposed target bonus. Its easier to get Obscured target with a Sentinel than with most other vehicles and still fire. This is why point 2 above can easily favour a lascannon Sentinel.

4. With EA and armoured top glancing hits (50% of incoming fire) are no longer horribly deadly. More to the point as your vehicle is harder to stun its better in assault, less vulnerable to krak grenades for a start.

Personally I wouldnt take extra protection for a Sentinel. You can get reasonable mileage out of it but you are at least equally likely not to. I love the AT-ST look though (and will continue to use unarmoured top. Also lascannon are quite alright as a weapons choice, when I removed mine I kept them to be magnetised rather than just glueing multi-lasers. However I don't extend this to autocannon, its 5pts more than a multi-laser and is less effective.

Where I disageree with HBMC: Carapace armour really really helps with Rough Riders, not tried it, but know others who have. Keeps them alive through the bolter fire and turns the unit into a much better tarpit unit after the first strike.

I've had pretty good 'success' with my 2 Sentinels.  Each is armed with an Autocannon, though they rarely do more than piss of a Vyper or Speeder. 

What they have done, though, is allow the rest of my army the room to breathe, shoot, and control the game.  As has been mentioned, they can always be used to tie up hordes of Str3 nutters, and I use them in this manner quite often when facing Guant/Gant hordes. 

My favorite use for Sentinels is this; I use them as a bodyguard for my Leman Russ MBTs.  When deploying, I position a Sentinel directly in the LOS between the LRMBT and the enemy heavy weapons.  Combined with a reasonable use of cover, this usually means that the enemy will have to expend its first AT shots against the Sentinel before the attempt to neutralize the LRMBTs can be made.

In 21 local tourney games, my Sentinels have survived only a few.  But, my LRMBTs have survived in nearly every game.  In only one has both of my LRMBTs been destroyed, and in all games (excluding escalation) the LRMBTs were dropping ordnance shells on their first turn.  Without the Sentinels, they would most likely be the first casualties of each game, sometimes falling before firing their first shots.

 

 

 

Sentinels benefit from being in an armor heavy list. Attention generally gets focused onto the big threats. When there's a Hellhound, a couple of russes, and a basilisk making trouble for you, most of the attention is going to be on them, and not on the Sentinels skulking around the flanks, and the less heavy fire being directed their way, the better off they are, especially if the tougher tanks keep coming off as the bigger threat.

The problems with that advice is that a heavy bolter or scatter laser will do nothing to a Russ, and so are ready to fire at Sentinels. That is the real problem with them, the weapons that kill them probably won't have better things to shoot at, and usually have a high rate of fire.

Yes you need the tanks so that you dont get lascannoned and missile launchered, but you still need 9-12 Sentinels for a stand up fight. Sentinels can hide behind Hellhounds and shoot over them, very little of the Sentinel is exposed. The other way is to hide them.

Perhaps I wasn't clear earlier, but I agree with Orlanth that the primary benefit of the ACC is the increased protection against glancing hits. Against a high strength weapon the ACC isn't much good, but against strength 4 and 5 guns (which get directed at Sentinels quite alot) it is very helpful, almost doubling the Sentinel's chance of surviving the hit.

I also agree with the other posters that the best place for a Sentinel to be is on the flanks. There the Sentinel is out of range from about half of the enemy's guns, and if there is a piece of terrain there then the Sentinel can usually have LOS blocked to the large majority of the enemy army.

I love sentinels. They look as good on the table just as much as they lack suvivability.

Ever since before the elysian drop troop list came out, I have had a dire affection for these. Since playing elysians (at that time it was the only armor available for that drop troop list) I have come to appreciate how effective it is to deep strike and scout move a squad right off the bat. (not sure if this is still valid in 4th though).

Cheap is their by word. Almost never field anything more expensive than a autocannon.

Dont lameent their lack of survivability, celebrate a cheap heavy wepon that can move every turn. They are meant as a delaying red herring. If you have enough of them, it makes for a tough choice for the opponents firing options. Shoot at the tanks? or shoot at the easily killed sentinels?

Either way, its a lose lose situation for them.

Except for about the same amount of points you can buy a piranna! That really hacks me off!

Augustus - "Yea me too, whats more mine all have closed tops on the models, and 2 magnetic hardpoints, fir a gun in the hull and a piece of gear on top."

Orlanth- That Augustus is why they suck. Sentinels go bang if shot at. Just accept it and take more, or hide them so they are only exposed to their targets. Trying to make them survivable is a huge waste of points.

Absololutely, I lament their cost without any upgrades.  I never (very seldom) play them as actually close topped.  That I concur is laughable.  I just put the closed tops on so I could set magnets in the tops for improved comms/ATMs or spotlights.

That said, no one ever sees the dropping flamer AntiTankMissile pair coming, it sure is a blast when they are bang on, and yea, they destroy themselves a lot, but it is awfully poerful when they work and they hit!

Other good uses include one with improved comms, a cheapo way to get it if escalation units matter, nice when combined with Deepstriking Special weapon sqauds with bombs and melta guns!

Good luck you group of mad sentinel Jockeys!