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I've heard both ways on this, so I don't know where the rumor mill is standing on this, but is GW redoing the plastic Ork Boyz or leaving them the same?  I mean entirely new models, not just re-cut sprues.

Thanks!

Phil Kelly at the 2006 Spain Gamesday said that yes the Ork boyz are getting an update. However, it is not totally new models, just lots of extra gubbins and bitz.

Given that the Ork release has been pushed back to at least 2008, they might decide to completely redo the models, and only let us know in their 3-month window.

This of course is assuming they release the Orks soon. As a long time Warboss who has all but lost hope, i'm rooting for Codex: Orks, special 10th anniversary edition, which is just a reprinted 3rd ed book with a new cover and maybe a nice dust jacket.

judging by what they've done with both Imperial and Chaos marines recently, I'd say that recut sprues with extra bits is the most likely outcome. Of course, that's just the Boyz, we can at least hope for other completely new plastics, e.g new bike riders (and maybe bikes too) and the much rumoured custom vehicles etc

The ork boyz box is on the list of items not for order. Usually is a good sign that it is being redone.

Hopefully the new Ork Boyz box will be like the upcoming Chaos Marine sprue - the same models, just with more options on the sprues.

So more heads, more weapons, bitz for Nobz and maybe even Grotz (assuming they exist... actually most options will be gone thanks to JJ's revision, so maybe not Grotz), plus weapon options (Burnerz, Rokkitz, 'Eavy Shooters).

BYE

Yeah, JJ's philosophy is bad news for veteran gamers who want options to make their army unique and characterful.  It is good news for GW's bottom line because it makes the game easier for the 10-yr-olds to understand (and hence Mommy buys them those cute little toy soldiers).  He is dumbing-down the game as a whole IMHO.  That makes it a lot less interesting for me personally.  If he takes his philosophy much further, he might attract more 10-yr old players, but he will start to lose veteran players as well.

There's no reason for them to include big shootaz, rokkits, or burnaz on the sprue because in the new codex they will no longer have separate rules (too confusing!).  Instead shootaz, sluggaz, big shootaz, rokkits, burnaz, choppas, big choppas, and power klaws will all count as "ork weapons".  Ork weapons will grant furious charge and +1A in close combat.  They will also allow the bearer to make a shooting attack with the following profile: Range 24" S4 AP5 Rapid Fire

The new ork army box will be a Christmas release, similar to other armies they have released at that time period. Ork army box with codex will hit the week before Christmas, with the codex separatel going out about the first week of January, probably along with a new battleforce, and then smaller boxes over the rest of January.

Or so has been told to me by GW US.

The Ork Boyz are still pretty good models. Anything is possible at this stage, but I would bet more towards a recut + bitz than a total revision. No point reinventing the wheel or making models that would be incompatible with the current metal range.

With the new Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines sprues, GW's been good at including lots more weapon options and upgrades, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a Command/Accessory sprue with Boss Poles, Nob bitz, weapons and maybe Goff and Bad Moons icons and the like.

I hope (and suspect) that most of the new kits will be vehicles, bikes, new characters and maybe a new unit or two.

Here's what I have to add:

At Games Day, all Jervis would say on the Orks was that 2008 would be a year of Orks. That's an incredible amount of stuff, if it's really spread out over the whole year, and my mind kinda boggles at all of that.

Now some speculation:

Phil Kelly wrote Codex: Tyranids, and Nidzilla armies rampage tournament and friendly games alike.
Phil Kelly wrote Codex: Eldar, and Falcon / Eldrad / Avatar armies ravage tournament and friendly games alike.
Phil Kelly is writing Codex: Orks ...

Marines of all flavors may be getting brutalized with the nerf bat, but Xenos are flying higher and higher with Kelly behind them.

- Salvage

Thank you all for replying, that's what I needed to hear.  With the Lost and the Damned being so much in limbo right now, I can start painting up some Slugga Boyz to get a head start on an Ork army.

Yeah, but really other than zilla nids and falcons, the lists are rather well done. Some small fixes would fix those problems. Phil also worked on Necrons......

They have said quite a few times that almost every kit in the Ork range was getting redone. That is quite a bit of plastic.

I like the idea of the forces of the Imperium (SM & IG) fighting for their life against the Xenos. It fits the fluff better than SM with rending ACs easily destroying everything in front of them.

I too am starting up some Ork boyz as a head start for the Xmas release.

 

P.S - a kitten just died

Posted By Boss_Salvage on 06/28/2007 7:18 AM
Now some speculation:

Phil Kelly wrote Codex: Tyranids, and Nidzilla armies rampage tournament and friendly games alike.
Phil Kelly wrote Codex: Eldar, and Falcon / Eldrad / Avatar armies ravage tournament and friendly games alike.
Phil Kelly is writing Codex: Orks ...

Marines of all flavors may be getting brutalized with the nerf bat, but Xenos are flying higher and higher with Kelly behind them.

- Salvage

What about Tau?  Haven't really heard much about them since the new codex came out...

Posted By imthedci on 06/28/2007 8:37 AM

Posted By Boss_Salvage on 06/28/2007 7:18 AM
Now some speculation:

Phil Kelly wrote Codex: Tyranids, and Nidzilla armies rampage tournament and friendly games alike.
Phil Kelly wrote Codex: Eldar, and Falcon / Eldrad / Avatar armies ravage tournament and friendly games alike.
Phil Kelly is writing Codex: Orks ...

Marines of all flavors may be getting brutalized with the nerf bat, but Xenos are flying higher and higher with Kelly behind them.

- Salvage

What about Tau?  Haven't really heard much about them since the new codex came out...

Which is a good sign honestly. Tau are very well balanced. There aren't that many broken units, the flavour is about the same as it used to be. They're solid and fare well against Dark Angels, Imperial Guard, non-uberZilla bugs, etc.

Most of the options are pretty good (Devilfish, Hammerhead, Skyray, Pirinhas, Fire Warriors, Crisis Teams, Stealth Teams, etc.) Vespids are mostly ignored - as much for crappy models as lousy rules tough.

This is a case where no news is good news. Tau is a solid middle-of-the-road Codex with no gaping flaws. Hence, it gets discussed less than others.

If Orks end up being at or around the power level of Tau Empire I'll keep playing 40K.
I'm worried about rumours that points will be dropped for ork boyz and characters will be more important though- I'm tired of playing the "move 6", remove a boat load of models, move 6", remove a boat load of models" game. I want durable ork boyz, or some interesting delivery methods, not an even more unwieldy, boring army.
But I don't want to turn this into a wishlist so I'm shutting up now.

I agree with Da Boss. I want an Ork army that is durable and elite. I'm sick to death of having to move 100+ models each turn then having to pack them up at games end. It's just a big hassle. I'd love an ork army with about 50 infantry with several (3-4) big vehicles.

I would hope they would not cut the orks down to smaller mobs, Orks are all about big numbers.( that and I have over 4000 points of painted foot sloggers)

It always boggels my mind that Orks are supposed to be these hulking creatures to take crazy punishment before going down, yet in the game they have the same toughness as a guardsmen. I attribute that mostely to the fact its a d6 system, and there is not too many numbers to "keep the balance" Still I dont have to like it.

Othe wise I would not mind an increase in a boys points to get a T4 trooper, and maybe a 5 armor save. All though I dont see them doing it, possibly a level effect like a yoof mob at T3, and a boyz mob at T4, and ard boyz mob with T4 and armor save 4 etc with an growing point cost as you go. I really think the low toughness is the main thing that should be changed.

By all means they need new wheeled and tracked figs, Plastic grots but other wise the current range is really pretty good. Now with their current plastic crazy we should expect to see kans, Dreds, Mega armor, and grots in plastic along with the illusive tanks and such that have been on the burner for years now.

Um... I am not sure what rules you are playing with, but Orks have been T4 (the same as a space marine) since the incarnation of the game. Ard boyz are T4 4+ armour.....

I am confused. Is this sarcasm?


I n plastic I would expect a boyz kit with most all options. Trukks, Battlewagons and grots. I think kans and dreads was a confirmed no, and the order list for late this year still has bikes on it. Maybe a plastic Warboss kit?

I am

Marines of all flavors may be getting brutalized with the nerf bat, but Xenos are flying higher and higher with Kelly behind them.

- Salvage

Thats the problem with having two different games developers, with totally different philosophies, designing Codexes for the same game.  Johnson wants to keep things simple for the kids, while Kelly provides more options for the veterans to experiment with/exploit. 

My guess is that speed freaks will be the Ork Nidzilla.

A friend of mine who sees everything before it comes out somehow (he had the Eldar codex months before it hit the stores) has seen a lot of the new Ork range and has said that the new stuff is brilliant. Plastic Killa Kans with all kinds of options, awesome new plastic bikes, and he said that the boys were NOT being redone, but that they would have more options. Take it with a grain of salt, but it is encouraging to me as he is rarely wrong on this stuff and only discusses things he has actually seen.

The vehicle kits are meant to be pretty awesome and can be built in a number of ways, so that each kit can be made into a truk, buggy, etc, and you can customize the hell out of each vehicle to make them fairly unique. Everything I have heard about the models has been over the top positive.

Now that i know Phill Kelly is writing the rules, i am really happy. His codex work has been sterling IMO. They should let him write them all as far as I am concerned. I have a feeling that if everything comes off well, the new Orks may be a huge hit. I hope so.



I would not count on this unless you play speedfreaks, in which case it may be feasible. I cant see GW straying too far from the foot slogger concept that the Orks have alwas had.

Oops I meant strength, thus the hulking referance. Sorry i should have read my post over again. I ment Strength. Yoffs with S3 cheaper points regulars s4 etc. It all seams like a mess of a piost now. By my main paint was that basic ork should not have S3.

Sorry for the mess

"I have a feeling that if everything comes off well, the new Orks may be a huge hit. I hope so."

I hope so too. Orks have always been one of the most fun armies in the game, and although I want be collecting them (still finishing off 3K worth of Fantasy Orcs), I definitely look forward to playing against them.

I was working as a Kommando at GD and asked Jervis when they were coming out - he said I'd like Christmas and all of next year.

It's been said before, but just another confirmation.

It's funny how the internet turns simple statements into outrageous comments.

Jervis noted that his son, like most children, made an observation that was quite correct. The codexes were a mess and included things that shouldn't be there, while included things that couldn't be used. It wasn't about making the game simpler for kids, it was about making intuitive changes to the codexes. Why make special characters when you can't use them in most games? Why not have a description of everything needed in the codex and show examples of them. Why make things so complicated when it wasn't needed.

Most of the changes fall more in the line of how WHFB does things than just simplifying for kiddies. Ever play Warmaster, or Epic? Simplicity doesn't make them for kids. Heck, DBM would be a kids game if you went with that kind of logic, but it's not.

If you look at the Eldar and Tyranid codex you would also notice that those two codexes are predecessors of what we see in the DA codex. They have no armouries, and very limited options in comparison to the other older codexes. They also have two obvious errors. Godzilla nids and blinged falcons of doom. So what you are saying, is that veterans prefer imbalance?

I am very curious to see how the Ork dex works out. How do you make a mass horde with few very heavy weapons compete with the armies out today. How do you make it worthwhile after taking away choppa? With the variety included in each codex they have put out lately, it really makes me excited what will end up in this one.

One point I don't think that came across very well in that interview was the fact that, while they are trying to expand beyond the basic 1,500 point pick-up competative game by using expansions, they are also focused on trying to get the basic codices to a point where they are specifically tuned for competitive/pick-up game play.

Obviously this takes time and right now you have a pretty huge imbalance between some of the codices, but I do believe that we'll get to a point that Jervis envisions: That when you set up your army and look across the table at a tournament you don't immediately realize that you have no hope.


Another point I find kind of humurous is the fact that for years players have been saying: "If GW doesn't want me to take min-maxed units then why don't they write the codex like that". Of course when GW finally starts writing the codices like that everyone starts screaming bloody hell.

Posted By yakface on 06/29/2007 1:20 PM
Another point I find kind of humurous is the fact that for years players have been saying: "If GW doesn't want me to take min-maxed units then why don't they write the codex like that". Of course when GW finally starts writing the codices like that everyone starts screaming bloody hell.

I think that really stems from the fact that not ALL of the codexes have undergone "the treatment" yet.  Once that happens, some of the grumbling will die down (I know, it'll be replaced by a different kind of grumbling!). 

Of course, the Black Templars codex, unless it gets redone sooner than I'd expect, will let you field tremendous amounts of assault cannons for quite a while.

Hmm, stick bombas are being discontinued... guess I should buy a box before they disappear.

"Ork plastic vehicles except buggy, and wartrak.
Stick Bommas are discontinued as well."

Posted By stecal on 06/30/2007 10:39 AM
Hmm, stick bombas are being discontinued... guess I should buy a box before they disappear.

"Ork plastic vehicles except buggy, and wartrak.
Stick Bommas are discontinued as well."

This discontinuing means they'll either be (a) replaced or (b) obsolete and removed from the Codex in 6 months time.

I'd wait, unless you really, really want a unit of the current Stikk Bommas for your display cabinet.

Posted By Iorek on 06/29/2007 2:53 PM

Posted By yakface on 06/29/2007 1:20 PM
Another point I find kind of humurous is the fact that for years players have been saying: "If GW doesn't want me to take min-maxed units then why don't they write the codex like that". Of course when GW finally starts writing the codices like that everyone starts screaming bloody hell.

I think that really stems from the fact that not ALL of the codexes have undergone "the treatment" yet.  Once that happens, some of the grumbling will die down (I know, it'll be replaced by a different kind of grumbling!). 

Of course, the Black Templars codex, unless it gets redone sooner than I'd expect, will let you field tremendous amounts of assault cannons for quite a while.

You don't see the same amount of grumbling about BT though. In fact, when it came out, players complained that it was underpowered.

Although they may become more popular once SM is redone, I doubt that BT will return to being the 'cheese kings' they were in Armageddon.