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--Ello ello. I'm new to posting on Dakka Dakka but I have been lurking for some time. Before I ask my questions I guess I should give a little back ground on myself.

I'm 24 and having previously worked for GW, I have collected almost every army to at least 1.5k points w/ every gaming system. I still enjoy Battlefleet Gothic, Mordheim, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Epic 40k and both Warhammer games. My largest army is my Orks that are at/around 10k points.

Now The reason I am actually writing is to get some tips on Dark Eldar. I never picked up the army because I didn't like the models but the more I look around....the less Dark Eldar players I see. I feel like it will be a fun challenging army that will hopefully provide to be a good Tournament army as well. Soooo what are you tips w/ the Dark Eldar? Any must have units? I see most Dark Eldar list are Raider heavy...is this a must? Wych list seems to be the popular route to go why is this? Are 3 Ravagers a must have?

-Basically I'm looking to start w/ a 500 point list and expand from there. I'd like to stay w/ a Wych Cult perhaps(sounds interesting) and I'd like to hear any suggestions anyone has for a good starting point for Dark Eldar. Thanks in advance and Cheers

Don't play an army when you dislike the models.

Longshot speaks the truth.

Wych cults are nasty, but stick to the main list- DE Warriors in Raiders will form the backbone of your army. Given that Raiders can be dropped by Bolter fire, you'll want as many as possible. Stick everything in a Raider, and you're off to a good start. Give them all Night Shields and even Nidzilla will have trouble with you.

Wyches are awesome, take at least two squads, preferably three.

Two or three Haemonculi on bikes with Destructors make a nasty little unit, surprisingly effective.

Bikes are expensive, but generally worth the points (good use of terrain is essential with them). If you have an Archon/Drachon, stick him on a bike as well and fly him with a bike unit.

Ravagers rock. Take at least one.

Do you want to use the webway? If you do, obviosuly you can lose some Raider squads for some extra Wyches.

I actually find myself liking the models more now, when they first came out I was still on my Ork kick and did not like the models. I now find myself liking them more and want to make a new army

A new Codex (and therefore new mdoels) is on the cards for a release, maybe next year. But you should be able to find DE armies cheapish on ebay.

fourganger has some good advice I would like to add to.

If you go wych cult maximize your warp beast squads as well as these things are cheap (they die easily) but lay out so many attacks so fast your opponent can't really ignore them and your wyches will easily get into positon.

If you take bikes (which I love) don't forget to put the blasters on them as you will have fast (very fast) dark lances you can move around easily.

I also like the Haemonculous. I would recomend taking the wargear that can kill psychers outright to help in the new chaos dex days.

Remember wyches will die to almost any shooting. A ten man unit of warriors with two dark lances is only 100points.

A talos will scare your opponent but usually die very fast.

This army has a high learning curve but then can easily dominate unexperienced opponents.

Orion

Are wyches crucial to a DE force? because i'm interested in collecting DE and I don't like the wych models. Scourges are AWESOME though.

Scourges are overpriced/costed for what they do and you need wyches for CC. They are also great at tying up elite assault units.

need as in want or need as in NEED?

Now I think of it, can anyone actually give me or direct me to a good summary of the dark eldar and how they play? (not done by GW pls) I like some of their stuff but I don't know much about them.

Warp Beasts are good.
10 man Warrior Squads with Dark Lances are good.
Splinter Cannons and Blasters are good.
Sybarites are good.
Bikes are good.
Webway Portal + Raider full of Incubi is good.
Ravagers have to be good considering they're only 105 points. Think of them like Land Speeders more than tanks.
Wyches are good.
Fleet is good.
Funky wargear is good.
Splinter Rifles suck.

Don't expect your Raiders to survive. Ever. Use the Webway and Terrain and try to assault right away.

ok, they're good, but what do they do? from reading the reference sheet they seem kind of feeble (low S + T) so how do fare against other armies? how do they beat them? etc.

They beat them by gunning down tanks with dark lance spam and tackling troops with Wyches, Lord(s) and Sybarites in Warrior squads. Point for point, I can't think of a single CC specialist unit that can match Wyches once in combat.

Lords and Blaster Bikes are a good combo.

The lord gets the 2+ invul save wargear that's a good item.

With S3 Agonizers are good against anything T4 or higher.

I think the thing with Dark Eldar is nothing really costs alot of points, so you have to take lots of stuff and it all has to be reasonably effective. So say you have a Warrior squad that is Splinter Cannon + Blaster + Syberite you don't take one you take two and you charge together. Instead of thinking in terms of units think in terms of combos.

Or say you don't take one Ravager, you take 3x Warrior squads with 2x Dark Lances and 2x Ravagers and really put the hurt on.

2+ INVULNERABLE! I like it...

I think I get it now. To win you need to co-ordinate your forces carefully or else have your fragile stuff crushed. Might invest in them when the wallet looks a bit healthier.

THX.

The learning curve for them is very steep but once mastered they perform very well. IMO they are one of the best anti-meq armies and if you haven't played against them before your in trouble. Wyches can go into assault against genestealers/terminators and win so keep that in mind. Every thing they run is dirt cheap and they have a lot of it (exceept Incubi). 15 Dark lance weapons or more are common. I can tell you what to avoid when building them, Talos, Scourges, Mandrakes, Hellions, Incubi, and pinheads (hellraiser wannabees) because they are generally to points intensive. Some builds swear by the incubi but I find them to slow moving and would rather by more warriors ect. They are absolutley the fasted army on the board when structured right.

I read the codex, it seems to fit in with everything you've said, but I can't figure out how a DE army can last a game with such a weak toughness. Almost everything is T3!!

That said I do run a very slow, very tough nurgle army that laughs in the face of death.

Pinheads? What are they?

roughly how many wyches does it take to beat 14 stealers, assuming they have no biomorphs and the charge?

Thx for the info, DE stuff is hard to find. Wonder why they're so unpopular?

DE don't win by" lasting the game." They prevent their opponent from lasting the game.

Vast majority of the models are fugly in most peoples opinions (I personally hate all of then except the Incubi). I've toyed with starting them for years using proxies and conversions, since the rules and (limited) background is intriguing. However, now that Jes Goodwin is redoing the DE line I'm content to wait for the re-release (and hope the new rules aren't horrid).

New Models? New rules? WOOHOO! fingers crossed for decent wych models!

where'd you hear that btw?

I'm quite fond of the Hellions, shame the hellglaive doesn't do anything cool.

I so love my DE. I was at a local tourney and the Kammando said that DE will be released this coming up summer. With Necrons getting released around this time next year also.

But, I truly love the DE and have been waiting for GeeW to get to them. My DE have been collecting to much dust.

Posted By Teh_K42 on 11/02/2007 8:50 PM
Are wyches crucial to a DE force? because i'm interested in collecting DE and I don't like the wych models. Scourges are AWESOME though.

I've converted all of my wyches from Dark Elf Witch elves.  Really simple, cut off one sword and stick a spare pistol on it.  End up being about the same price as the Wych models.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

DE is a fine tune army, Ive been playing them for years ive have done the wych army and stanard kabal list, best combo is a
dracon with four incubi and incubi master ( eq load out is drugs for both of them and plasma grenades for every one else) in a raider with a horrorflex
then a dracile by her self with drugs ,
a unit of wyches with a succubus and raider with horroflex( those are a must have on raiders)
then five too six ten man units of warriors with two dark lances( a must have)
three ravagers with dissies and night shields
should give you about 1790 to 180o

Ive convert my wyches from normal DE warriors along with my mandrakes and hellions( from extra raider bits and bits all together) wil post pic of them when there done . but wyches are not a must have unit you can get along with out them, but you will just have tgoo be sneaky and stuff with ur incubi or mandrakes) rememeber 1o of them dish out 30 attacks on the charge)

i've been playing DE for 7 years now (they were my first army) and the best route i've found has allowed me to win nearly every single game i've played.

take an archon with punisher, t.helm, shadowfield, drugs, animus vitae (S6 after taking a slave) then 8 incubi with him in a raider. then take a dracon with 8 incubi in a raider, two 10 man units of mandrakes, two 10 man raider squads with syrabite agoniser etc, three sniper squads, two ravagers (one with three discintigrators) and a talos. that's 2000pts and you get a whole world of hurt for the opponent if you manouver your units correctly

Teh_K42 wrote:Are wyches crucial to a DE force? because i'm interested in collecting DE and I don't like the wych models. Scourges are AWESOME though.

They pretty much are unfortunately. They're the top-tier assault unit for DE. Incubi are too slow and expensive.

Luckily for you, they're quite easy to convert. Pretty much any Dark Elf model that isn't too heavily armoured can be used. Youd could even do a Slaaneshi cult and use daemonettes instead, though, you'd have to add a few splinter pistols.

Well the dark eldar list that recently won the tourney at my local game shop shaped up like this

Cheapy leader
5 warriors w/dark lance
Raider

Cheapy leader
5 warriors w/dark lance
Raider

10 wyches
Raider

10 wyches
Raider

10 wyches
Raider

5 warriors w/dark lance
raider

5 warriors w/dark lance
raider

5 warriors w/dark lance
raider

5 warriors w/dark lance
raider

5 warriors w/dark lance
raider

5 warriors w/dark lance
raider

Ravager, 2 blasters? one dark lance

Ravager, 2 blasters, one dark lance

Ravater, 2 blasters, one dark lance

Not much variety in his choices at all, and not much fun to play against, but it was very competative.

Well the dark eldar list that recently won the tourney at my local game shop shaped up like this

Cheapy leader
5 warriors w/dark lance
Raider

Cheapy leader
5 warriors w/dark lance
Raider

10 wyches
Raider

10 wyches
Raider

10 wyches
Raider

5 warriors w/dark lance
raider

5 warriors w/dark lance
raider

5 warriors w/dark lance
raider

5 warriors w/dark lance
raider

5 warriors w/dark lance
raider

5 warriors w/dark lance
raider

Ravager, 2 blasters? one dark lance

Ravager, 2 blasters, one dark lance

Ravater, 2 blasters, one dark lance

Not much variety in his choices at all, and not much fun to play against, but it was very competative.

take incubi over wyches...the best a wych unit can do is hold a bunch of thing up for a couple turns and maybe beat it in combat, where every combat phase the incubi are in close combat you have a guarantee on the enemy losing a unit. believe me the only thing every to stand up to a charge from 8 of them and a lord was a hormogaunt brood of 32, they only had 10 left though so yea

Make your Dark Eldar army not reduce your weaknesses but instead play your army to attack your opponent's weaknesses in his army. If the army is shooty, quick assault with Wyches and the Lord will deal with them promptly. If your opponent is all hand to hand, then you blast them apart from a distance with a combination of lance fire and heavy dakka mode of the disentegrator.