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Anyone here have issues with a Forge World purchase from UK? Those not in the UK, that is...

In early Feb, I paid just over 300 USD for a Void Dragon Phoenix, two Missile Launcher Wave Serpent Turrets, a Scatter Laser Serpent upgrade kit, and a couple sheets of brass eagles. I just received them on Monday morning and, well, let's just say that I am a tad unsatisfied...




The Void Dragon arrived broken and with two Front Canopy covers instead on one Front and one Rear:

Busted fin:


Canopies:







The Wave Serpent Upgrade Kit did not come with the Hull Extension or the spoiler thingy that goes above the hatch door:



As it stands now, I will have a Falcon with an odd turret. The picture on the bag CLEARLY shows the elongated hull and the spoiler thingy.




Both Missile Launcher Turrets had a rectangle chunk of resin flash on the same point:




When I clipped said hunk off, a good portion of the turret side came with it. Turns out that the turret was HOLLOW behind the rectangle of doom!






I am a bit put out by this. I fully expected the pieces to come horribly covered in crappy mold lines and excess resin chunks in all the hardest to reach areas of the models. On that, at least, they did not disappoint. The Void Dragon was a lot cleaner than I was expecting. Still had a good amount of crap on it, but it wasn't that bad.
Essentially, had this order arrived with nothing but some aggravating flash chunks, I would be sining the praise of FW. However, after more than a month of waiting, only to have it show up broken, mis-cast, andmissing parts, well, you can see where I am going with this.

Not knowing how to deal with this (never done business with FW before), I snapped the photos above and sent FW an email explaining the situation to which I attached the photos. Now, the ball is in their court. Hopefully they will check and respond to emails in a far less time than they ship items.



Has anyone else from the US had a bad order arrive and had to deal with return/exchange of goods to FW in the UK? If so, haw was it resolved? Did you have to ship stuff back? Pay for shipping, etc?



Ghidorah

Well, for starters you're probably never going to hear back on your email. They've got something like 12 people on staff at Forge World, and they get well over 1000 emails a day. Or at least, so I've heard. So most emails just vanish into never never land or take weeks to get a reply.

You'd be better off calling them, or checking with your local Red Shirts if applicable. Usually stuff like this they'll try to be accomodating, and may even help you get in touch with Forgeworld (potential one-rate long distance on the store phone :p).

While I've not dealt with them myself (yet), I've heard good things about customer service, right down to one guy essentially getting 3 models from them, when he ordered a Land Raider with coversion kit (prometheus, I think) Part of which was horribly mis-molded. They sent him a replacement, except they sent him the wrong parts, so tehy sent the right parts and he got to keep the whole shebang, meaning that he essentially got 3 convertion kits and a Land Raider for the price of one "complete kit".

You'll probably come out ok in the end, Especially since one of the broken pieces is the main body of the fighter, though with them as backlogged as they are you might have to wait another 4+ weeks for replacements.

Resin is notoriously fragile because it is extremely brittle. This is why it captures such sharp detail.

Resin is NOT plastic, and you cannot treat it as such. It has no flex whatsoever.

You need to work *very* slowly and carefully with resin, because it is incredibly easy to snap things.


So here's my take:
- tough luck on the broken fin. Pin it and you're done.
- FW should send you the correct canopy
- FW should send you the hull extension piece
- you broke the turret, not FW.

For the other turret, you should saw or dremel the rectangular bit off, then slowly sand the remaining nub down flush.

Sorry. :(
____

FYI:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resinmodels.htm

FW will respond to your E-mail in a few weeks, tell you that they owe you nothing, and that'll be the end of it.

And you should be thankful for it. They're providing a servie, something that they don't have to do. You have no right to complain.

BYE

Welcome to the wonderful world of resin modeling.

You think that's bad, try some of the mom and pop resin models for Star Trek. I still have nightmares about building the Stargazer (from Nova Hobbies). :shudder:

Is it that bad for everyone else KiM? I know you talk about mom-and-pop and that might be a fair comparison due to FW's garage outfit, but I hope we can fairly compare it to other multinational niche makers of resin models - i.e. the japanese.
They sell all sorts of resin kits and have never heard of complaints about them. I don't personally know, and at best I'll just be able to get a couple reviews vs. the thousands from forgeworld, but it's what I remember from researching the stuff long ago (when I was in my GUNDAMZ mode but was too poor ).

I assume the only difference is that the Japanese resin kits are almost all larger than 28mm, but I think a fair comparison might be made to FW's larger models...which happen to be most of them.

edit: If I'm simply talking out of my ass tell me so.

I've only ever had experience with FW, Armorcast, and a few US Mom and Pop garage outfits. I have no experience with Japanese resin models. So I don't know.

Starcraft models were pretty good, though.

In general, the Japanese resin kits are pretty good - they use fairly high quality resin and have high quality masters. The best "garage" operations are very professional, with suction / spin casting and/or vibration tables.

Knockoffs, however tend to use cheap resin and second (or third) generation masters. Bubbles and other imperfections may be more prominent, and the detail may be worse.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
- you broke the turret, not FW.

For the other turret, you should saw or dremel the rectangular bit off, then slowly sand the remaining nub down flush.

Sorry. :(

I disagree with this particular case. The thinness and fragility of that part in that spot is unlikely to be by design, give that the edges of the hollow portion appear wafer-thin and would not last under any kind of handling. Heck, with resin that thin, you could poke through with a sharp brush. Seems to me it's a moulding defect, a ginormous air bubble stuck in the mould near the pouring point (the square portion).

My condolences.

I dont think the size of the company is an indicator so much as the care they take.

check out the praise (rightly) heaped on Ultraforge right now for how resin can be recieved.

Bad luck on the FW pieces though. I am currently on the look out for the clear canopies for my Phoenix, its a pain that GW do not sell them seperate anymore.

As Aga said, that turret breakage is due to an air bubble in the cast (resin was poured wrong (ie too fast) or mixed wrong (too fast and bubbles form). That rectangular stub is a vent (either a pouring site, or an escape hole for any air trapped in the mould. ). Ideally, you should have sawn that chunk off and filed/sanded the remainder down. As it is, it can be bogged and sanded. Easy fix, but it shouldn't have happened.

Bubbles might form there due to the mould not being cleaned properly or by the mould not being level. Either way, shoddy QC for the prices they charge.

I had a Vulture that required both wings to be straightened, gaps in the hull patched, the canopy struts to be rebuilt (because it was just so many small broken bits) and one tail boom needed straightening also. Warpage like this means that the cast was not set when they popped it from the mould. Oh, when I got the box, it rattled. Not a good first impression.

I used to work in freight/shipping. We dealt with breakables every day (glass/porcelain). We had a simple rule. If it rattles, it isn't packed properly. If it arrived damaged, we HAD to replace it.
FW wanted me to return the entire kit (so I was paying freight twice - not an inconsiderable sum from Aus to the UK) in order to send me a replacement. Due to the ongoing production issues, they could not give me an eta for the replacement. I've sworn off FW as a result.

I've since found a miniatures manufacturer here that makes models suitable for a Vulture gunship (with a little modification) for a fraction of the price, a fraction of the casting issues, and the models are properly packed for shipping, too.

sleazy wrote:I dont think the size of the company is an indicator so much as the care they take.

check out the praise (rightly) heaped on Ultraforge right now for how resin can be recieved.

Really scummy casters notwithstanding, I think there's an inversely proportional relationship with volume and quality when it comes to resin models. I think Ultraforge has sufficiently low order numbers that they can take good care of their models, and make sure that what's posted is of the quality the customer expects. FW is much closer to an assembly line, they must keep the minis going out the door or be buried under an avalanche of new orders. I hope you are successful in getting replacements and/or the missing pieces sent to you.

My FW stuff wasn't all easy, either. My thudd gun has one wheel that's softer than the other, due to being cast in improperly mixed resin. My Malcador has numerous dings and marks from shipping damaging the delicate details of the main hull piece. Some of my Cadian upgrade bits have tricky air bubbles or minor cases of warping that I've had to fill with putty and superglue. Now, none of these were worth me calling them up (I based the Thudd Gun, so the parts won't get handled much, the tank looks all right with a few knocks and bruises and the damage to the conversion bitz is thankfully minor), but all of them annoyed me, and still do.

I recently heard from someone that apparently FW is changing something, as they had recently ordered a second Macharius, which arrived better-packed than the first (which had had numerous broken track links due to the track components banging together), but obviously, they're not there yet. Cardboard and bubble wrap are insufficient, clearly.

Good luck in getting satisfaction.

From everything I've heard FW are just taking the pee these days.

They know there is a realm of frothing maniacs desperate for their stuff, therefore they can make money and not worry about having to compete for that business.

Personally, while there are many models in FW which in an ideal world I would save up for and buy, right now FW's reputation is absolute crap.

Until the "word of mouth" on FW says that they have fixed their ridiculous wait times and poor quality issues (yeah, I know resin modelling isn't plastic kit modelling, but seriously if you are paying $100's for a kit it should be damn near perfect in every way the manufacturer can make it so) then I for one am staying well away from them.

If I am asked to pay top dollar, I damn well want top drawer service, and FW fall so far short of that it just isn't funny.

I feel bad for the OP, and from everything I've heard FW will make it right, although the wait will get annoying.

I think the lesson to be drawn from this is pretty clear: This isn't the forgeworld of five years or even one year ago. They're working non-stop, highly backlogged, and there is no end in sight. As much as you might want their models, I wouldn't place an order now unless you really don't care how long it takes. Given time, things will settle down for them.

Edit: is it just me, or is this an opening for a third party manufacturer to make up some ground with non-GW apocolypse models? If I owned a resin casting firm, I'd be telling my sculptor to crank out a "seige tank", an "orbital insertion pod," a "transport VTOL," and a range of vaguely humanoid, bipedal war machines. Make the tech look blocky and retro, but steer totally clear from GW's IP. The goal is to share a rough footprint, profile, and weapons load outs.

You're in for an interesting time ahead.

I disagree with everyone who says that you've no right to complain or expect satisfaction. A company takes care of its customers- it's that simple. The customer's NOT always right (sometimes he/she's a complete donkey-cave,) but for the most part you do what you can to do right by them.

ESPECIALLY when something's busted in transit due to poor packing (all those parts shaking around in the same bag!), an order is filled incorrectly (those hatch covers, which, by the way, are singularly unimpressive pieces IMO,) or product simply made poorly (that turret would've eventually collapsed just by looking at it!)

I wouldn't worry about the fin, but you've every reason to expect them to do something about the others. The key is to be persistent, but not an arse.

From everything I've been hearing lately, I won't be taking the plunge and buying any FW kits in the forseeable future.

The Wave Serpent kits haven't included a hull extension for some time - they changed the kids when the GW Wave Serpent came out, and are intended to to be used on the current GW kit that already has the extended hull (note it says "This is a ten part resin conversion kit for the plastic Wave Serpent", it doesn't mention the Falcon like the old kits used to). As to "spoiler", do you mean the wider fin on the Wave Serpent II kit? If so, you ordered the wrong kit or you were sent the wrong one, otherwise there is no "spoiler".

As to your other problems, ring FW - they'll sort them out with replacement parts, their customer service is great. All the kits I've had recently have been nigh on perfect - no bubbles, no warpage, and no missing/incorrect parts.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Resin is notoriously fragile because it is extremely brittle. This is why it captures such sharp detail.

Resin is NOT plastic, and you cannot treat it as such. It has no flex whatsoever.

You need to work *very* slowly and carefully with resin, because it is incredibly easy to snap things.

...

- you broke the turret, not FW.

For the other turret, you should saw or dremel the rectangular bit off, then slowly sand the remaining nub down flush.

Sorry. :(
____

FYI:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resinmodels.htm

Absolutley redundant advice. It's clear (/should be clear) to anyone looking that it's a defective product, resulting in the breakage to the turret.

Polonius wrote:I feel bad for the OP, and from everything I've heard FW will make it right, although the wait will get annoying.

I think the lesson to be drawn from this is pretty clear: This isn't the forgeworld of five years or even one year ago. They're working non-stop, highly backlogged, and there is no end in sight. As much as you might want their models, I wouldn't place an order now unless you really don't care how long it takes. Given time, things will settle down for them.

Things might eventually settle, but then Planetstrike will be released, sending them back down the hill again. It's not looking good for them, I wonder why they keep releasing new models like nothing's wrong, when every new popular model will only make things worse.

Things might eventually settle, but then Planetstrike will be released, sending them back down the hill again. It's not looking good for them, I wonder why they keep releasing new models like nothing's wrong, when every new popular model will only make things worse.

I'm guessing there is a sharp division of labor between sculptors and casters. You might as well keep releasing new models, as they're being scuplted and painted independently of the overall production level.

I imagine things will slow down enough for FW to bring in some new staff and increase production capabilities. The one reason they may be loathe to do so is that they fear the sales are utterly cyclical, and demand will peak and then drop.

Just noting that I'm still waiting for replacement legs on a chaos dread I ordered 3 months ago. Guessing replacing miscast parts is pretty low on their list of things to do ... actually, seems like most everything but charging credit cards is low on their list of things to do

Condolences on the broken and mangled parts though, that's harsh.

- Salvage

I made a purchase back in January and got fisted just like everyone else. I paid for the extra shipping and got less than 1/3 my product a month later.

10 dismissed e-mails and 2 days of phone calls (1 line I think) got me another 1/3 of my purchase delivered mid march.

Fed up with the extreme delays, I spent 2 more days trying to get them on the line and cancelled the rest of my order. My CC was refunded $70, I had 66% of my order, and a bad taste in my mouth.

One would think all good right? Wrong... those days of phone calls weren't cheap. I spent $40 in international calls to get product I had already paid for. The refund did not include any of the shipping, just the actual product.

I was very pissed and vowed never to purchase from FW again. The tale doesn't end there though gents. March 27th, more than 2 1/2 months after my intial order, the product I cancelled showed up at my door. No rhyme or reason. My CC has not been recharged and I feel no regrets about their screwup.

If I had to guess, I'd say FW has 12 to 18 months, tops, left. It's falling apart at the seams, even though any spike in orders left by Apocalypse should have been leveled by now. Mark you, I'm a pessimist, but in two, three years' time, I expect to see a brisk aftermarket in OOP resin kits, with another handful of GW employees being freshly laid off.

It certainly doesn't pay to dish out the extra cash for express shipping, since there's no telling when the actual products ship, a fact which is not at all influenced by how they'll be shipped.

My first, and will be "only" experience with FW product was with a set of Inquisition LandRaider doors that were all about 10-15% too small to properly fit. How sad is it that they can't make 3 peices fit a standard model for half the price of the Landraider itself?

Given my past experiences with FW, the content of this thread, and the fact that I think there are more people in my local gaming group who sculpt and cast stuff themselves than those of us who don't... I don't think I'll be purchasing from FW anytime in the forseeable future.

The only FW purchases I've made were from ebay where I could see the actual kit I was buying.
I've been pretty lucky getting perfect FW product for a fraction of the cost and in some cases the seller had extra bits that they just threw in for free after the sale.
My advise, based on personal experience, get any FW stuff you want from Ebay.

Ghidorah wrote:Anyone here have issues with a Forge World purchase from UK? Those not in the UK, that is...

In early Feb, I paid just over 300 USD for a Void Dragon Phoenix, two Missile Launcher Wave Serpent Turrets, a Scatter Laser Serpent upgrade kit, and a couple sheets of brass eagles. I just received them on Monday morning and, well, let's just say that I am a tad unsatisfied...




The Void Dragon arrived broken and with two Front Canopy covers instead on one Front and one Rear:

Busted fin:


Canopies:







The Wave Serpent Upgrade Kit did not come with the Hull Extension or the spoiler thingy that goes above the hatch door:



As it stands now, I will have a Falcon with an odd turret. The picture on the bag CLEARLY shows the elongated hull and the spoiler thingy.




Both Missile Launcher Turrets had a rectangle chunk of resin flash on the same point:




When I clipped said hunk off, a good portion of the turret side came with it. Turns out that the turret was HOLLOW behind the rectangle of doom!






I am a bit put out by this. I fully expected the pieces to come horribly covered in crappy mold lines and excess resin chunks in all the hardest to reach areas of the models. On that, at least, they did not disappoint. The Void Dragon was a lot cleaner than I was expecting. Still had a good amount of crap on it, but it wasn't that bad.
Essentially, had this order arrived with nothing but some aggravating flash chunks, I would be sining the praise of FW. However, after more than a month of waiting, only to have it show up broken, mis-cast, andmissing parts, well, you can see where I am going with this.

Not knowing how to deal with this (never done business with FW before), I snapped the photos above and sent FW an email explaining the situation to which I attached the photos. Now, the ball is in their court. Hopefully they will check and respond to emails in a far less time than they ship items.



Has anyone else from the US had a bad order arrive and had to deal with return/exchange of goods to FW in the UK? If so, haw was it resolved? Did you have to ship stuff back? Pay for shipping, etc?



Ghidorah

A dremel tool, nail file, and a bag of ready mix resin and clay go a long way. Didn't anyone already go over this conversation, last time i heard of it it was a Baneblade.
Modeling takes alot of different forms, from plastic, metal, and resin. Some makers have it, some don't.
Armorcast was probibly one of the better companies that did the trick. I like FW's concepts, but face it dudes, they are raping us.
Price- sucks. Quality- sucks. Worth- Sucks.
The figures are slightly smaller, or the models insainly larger then they should be. Rules that coencided with 40k- they always have thier own issues. Personally, I feel that GW is shafting all of it's subsidiary companies to save the mothership.
See if you all were getting your daily Kool-aid, you could all get on the Jervisication and sing " In GW... everything is fine..."
As a ma and Pop company, FW has alot to be desired. I would just as well put my cash down on the up and comers like Sophie's stuff, then put up with losers like over priced FW.

Your pictures are salvageable, so is your model.

1. Go back over the weak parts of your resin with the touchup batch. It is better to fill in the gaps and have more of it outside, as filler. As it dries... leave it alone.
2. After its done, use your nailfile and dental tools to slowly mold your wing back into place, and your windows back to shape.

3. Heat is bad for resin, so be careful. ( of course, after you've worked with it a bit, you get the hang of it) even under the lights, you have to take care and try not to leave it under it for long.

4. files, nail tools, dental tools are your friend, but take your time.

5. From the look of your pictures, that model is salvageable. As for the broken part, glue works, or you can use a little of the resin and reshape it to your liking by remolding the wing yourself. all of those little pits need filler in them. it is a good idea to use a little toothpick, toung depresser shaved down to a spatual, or a wet finger to fill in the gaps, but Resin is tricky. Some people use green stuff, either works for that job.

just a few thoughts.

Yet another dissapointed FW customer.

I can see why 'Scratchbuilding' and 'counts as ' was pushed so much in the Apocalypse Main Book.

Polonius's call about another Manufacturer is a great one.

Hellooooo Ultraforge.??!?!?

How long will it take for us gamers to realise FW is ripping us off?

I have bought a few items from them, and after I read a few of the comments, I feel justified in saying...

1. Resin does not have a 'remarkable' increase in detail compared to plastic.
2. Considering the amuont of flash/sprues/bubbles/miscasts/delays- there is nothing to justify the cost.
3. You should have a reasonable expectation to recieve a product from a company called "Forge-World" to actually be "Well-Forged"

Or should they be called F***ed World?

akira5665 wrote:Yet another dissapointed FW customer.

I can see why 'Scratchbuilding' and 'counts as ' was pushed so much in the Apocalypse Main Book.

Polonius's call about another Manufacturer is a great one.

Hellooooo Ultraforge.??!?!?

Two pages of pretty pictures in Apoc was "so much"?

As for another manufacturer breaking into the market, they are of course welcome to try. I will not be holding my breath. Of producers of large full-resin tank kits, Accurate Armour springs to mind, and their prices are on par with FW's (£128 for an E-100). There are generic resin manufacturers out there, suck as Old Crow Models, but they're often very small. I understand OCM is a one-man show, for example.