Black Library Finally Reveals the Primarch who has the power of "Invisibility"!

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**Alpharius**

Yes, it is true!

Now we know!

Note, the following will spoil some of what you learn in the Audio Book RAVEN'S FLIGHT.

Which, we've been told, will 'never' become a normal 'print' version.

SPOILER VISION ON:

Spoiler:

SPOILER VISION OFF.

Interesting!

And really, this should have been in a 'proper' book too, if oyu ask me...

**Mr. Burning**

'This isn't the Primarch you are looking for'

'Move along'

This should have been a print revelation but I reckon that they can more easily stop fan rants by saying that ist just an audio tale.

Depends on the quality of the audio script though.

**Alpharius**

I know that I'll be paying for it eventually.

The Raven Guard are my 2nd favorite army, so... I've no choice!

Unless, of course, the reviews tell us that it is a horrid production, etc, etc...

**Lord-Loss**

Do you achually get a figure about the casualties from the Drop Site Massacre?

How big are legions anyway? A legion has 20 company's, are they 100man strong, or bigger? I suspect more then 1k strong.

**Little lord Fauntleroy**

Awsomesauce. I've been considering Raven guard for a while now (I can't decide between four marine armies-Flesh tearers, Raven guard, Word bearers, and Night lords for my next 40k project

), and this definaetly adds to their appeal. Intriguing.

LLF

**Alpharius**

Lord-Loss wrote:Do you achually get a figure about the casualties from the Drop Site Massacre?

How big are legions anyway? A legion has 20 company's, are they 100man strong, or bigger? I suspect more then 1k strong.

You do indeed get some numbers, but they seem a bit... off.

For example, I think we learn that 4000 marines (give or take) stay behind at Deliverance while the rest, the vast majority, go to Istvaan (or however it is spelled these days).

Corax (no spoiler here, right?) later walks amongst the tens of thousands of dead marines (Raven Guard and others) at the massacre site...

Space Marine Legions, I think, were a lot bigger than we previously thought they were...

**Iron_Chaos_Brute**

Wow. That's just...stupid IMO.

It's like they're screaming, "TIHS PRYMARCH IZ HTE AWESOME!!11!! IZ JEDI!!!1!"

**Lord-Loss**

I think companies are around thousand men strong. As In 'Battle for the Abyss' the leader of the the Wordbearers has one thousands space marines with him, the only company mentioned is the seventh.

The Raven Guard and Salamanders were nearly wiped out in the Drop Site Massacre, so tens of thousands of dead marines sounds about right.

**1hadhq**

Lord-Loss wrote:

The Raven Guard and Salamanders were nearly wiped out in the Drop Site Massacre, so tens of thousands of dead marines sounds about right.

Plus fighting "on the ground" means casualties for both sides...

Still liking the idea of an "invisible" primarch.
Enhanced pre age of strife camo tech maybe?

**Grimm**

Sorry to go off topic a bit but, you mentioned that this audiobook wont be made into a real book. Is this true about all of them. I want the book 'Thunder from Fenris' when it comes out but I like to read, not listen.

**IvanTih**

I knew that ages ago.

**Grotzooka**

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:Wow. That's just...stupid IMO.

It's like they're screaming, "TIHS PRYMARCH IZ HTE AWESOME!!11!! IZ JEDI!!!1!"

The "Jedi" factor was brought up by the reviewer, not GW (I assume). Plus, there's nothing wrong with being Jedi-like. Plenty of sci-fi things are invisible. Does this mean that they are all stupid?

**Platuan4th**

Grimm wrote:Sorry to go off topic a bit but, you mentioned that this audiobook wont be made into a real book. Is this true about all of them. I want the book 'Thunder from Fenris' when it comes out but I like to read, not listen.

As far as I've heard, books originally published by Black Library as audio books will only be available as such for the foreseeable future.

I hope this changes to a "unless there is enough demand" or they later become available through the "Heretical Tomes".

**Morgrim**

Quite a few of the primachs seem to have at least minor psykic powers of some description, which makes sense as they are made from the DNA of the Emperor, the most powerful psyker in human history. Sanguinius was good at telling the future and I think deflecting some attacks (need to check the second, I know that Mephiston's powers are meant to mimic Sanguinius' abilties but far less potent, so I'd need to look up what he has other than psykic wings); Magnus is obvious; Konrad had visions of the future too, but much wilder and less controllable, and arguably a greater distance into the future but harder to place (implied that he tried to kill himself when he met the Emperor, because he know knew who he was and recognised him from a vision)...

I don't see why Corax couldn't have some passive ability to make himself less noticeable. Sort of a 'you can find him if you're looking for him but don't really pay attention if you're just glancing about'.

**Alpharius**

oops!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/273230.page

**Sgt Jelal**

Would be an interesting option in the rules ... "when playing this character no model is used as he's invisible".
Can't see GW going for it tho - it's a lost sale.

**reds8n**

Lord-Loss wrote:Do you achually get a figure about the casualties from the Drop Site Massacre?

How big are legions anyway? A legion has 20 company's, are they 100man strong, or bigger? I suspect more then 1k strong.

A little...

Spoiler:

**Lord-Loss**

Wow, thats alot!

Companies must be 3,000 men strong atleast, as there are 20 companies in a legion.

**Solly**

There was no curb on SM training pre-heresy.
If you take a basic example:
Ultramarines had roughly 18 known successor chapters of 1000 each so that's 19,000 marines in left over after the heresy re-distributed by the Codex.

Now if we use the total of loses noted above by reds8n as the basic overview of the original chapters we get just under one million worth of marines in active service throughout the Imperium.
So roughly 500,000 per side, roughly..

If each of the Loyalist SMs founded 18 successor chapters (which we know is not the case for most of them) but just going on the example of the UM then roughly 100,000 loyalist marines survived the HH.

So the losses incurred by the loyalist side in marines is very roughly 400,000.
Fully 4/5 of the loyalist strenght was destroyed by Horus, with an unknown number of losses on the Dark side..

Oh and Yay! Jedi/Primarch..
Should have been expected though..
Will have to get hold of the audio and have a listen.

**padixon**

Lord-Loss wrote:Wow, thats alot!

Companies must be 3,000 men strong atleast, as there are 20 companies in a legion.

Every Legion was set up differently and to the specifications of their primarch. For example: the spacewolves have only ever had 13 companies. And the Ultramarines actually had separate chapters further broken down into 100 man companies within their Legion, as there are references to a 3 or 14th chapter of Ultramarines, the same goes for some of the other ones as well. While others as noted, had only companies that were really large, but again each legion had different set ups.

**1hadhq**

Lord-Loss wrote:Wow, thats alot!

Companies must be 3,000 men strong atleast, as there are 20 companies in a legion.

Doubt that. The first HH books had several captains landing on a planet and there were never thousands of marines mentioned,
so I'll rather stick with the hundreds of marines commanded by a captain of a company.

Again, 20 companies is to be found where?
Some legions had companies of higher numbers ( 30th company or so ).

Seems the audiobook suffers from more dead = more awesome story.