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Im just alittle confused with this one I read some where (maybe it was here I don't remember) that the SOB believe the Space Marine's the very men who give up there humanity to save mankind to be some kind of sub human mutant who disgrace the emperor by there mere existance

if this is the case its kind of a oxymoron isn't it as the marines are made in the image of there primach and the primach are formed in the image of the Emperor who the sisters of battle would pretty much bend over backwards of the guy (he don't need to ask twice for no sanwich lol jokes) and where also made by the Emperors hands in the first place

so why would they pretty much see the tools of there Gods dream as scum which should be purged???

any thoughts on this ??

They are fanatics and controlled by the Inquisition and the religion around the Emperor. They hate the Marines because are cool.

Aside idiocity... it's a good question. I've never read the codex regarding the Sororitas (nor I'll ever do it since I hate the idea behind them) but perhaps they do treat the SMs as monsters because, at the very end, they are not anymore human. With all those modifications they are just a modification and a monstruosity of what Humanity means and is.

But all is good on being no different from the other Sisters, being closed in a monastery for years, being controlled by the Inquisition and used as instruments of extermination....

naaa... everyone is a monster in this universe, but some armies are "worst" than others.

I click on "PURGE SORORITAS", but I understand their point of view on the Marines.

That's a good question. I don't have anything more concrete than what I've come up with in 5 minutes but my best guess is a) they deny that the Marines are truly made in the Emperor's image and therefore just sub-humans or b) the Inquisition and church would fear what they cannot control.

Huh, wonder how they feel about Grey Knights then.

I would think that the SoB would hold a very real respect for the SM as they are the chosen tools of His will. I think that Sisters would figure that they're are way more people out there who are definitely heretics without hunting down superwarriors that have a slight difference in Creed.

The sisters would not think to question what He himself created.

Don't they follow the Imperial Creed which basically sees the Space Marines as divine saviours, gifts from the immortal god emperor of mankind?
So they'd respect them a fair bit.

I am pretty sure everything I have seen has shown the SoB to revere the SM's as holy tools of the Corpse God. At the very least, they respect the SM for their skills, loyalty and big... guns

I've never read anything where the Sisters disrespect loyal space marines. In my codex Witch Hunters, there is a section that gives unusual scenario ideas for why Witch Hunters would fight the Space Marines, and it almost always is a result of the Space Marines failing in their loyalty and adherance to Imperial Doctrine.

If you can find the references to Sisters despising Space Marines I'd be very grateful. It does seem illogical. I could understand a kind of frustration that the Emperor's finest don't follow the Ecclesiarchy's Religion, but my understanding is that the Sisters and Inquisitors have grudgingly accepted this since the beginning?

It's a great question though, interesting to think about!

---Emperor guide and save you!
Frankie

Well, they still venerate the Emperor so they aren't heretics. They may think that they don't worship him the right way, but likely still respect that they worship the Emperor on the battlefield.

Well, i think it comes down to the actions of every marine for this...I mean, if i remember correctly (and i'm not saying i do) in DoW Soulstorm the SoB's fight the Space Marines, and when they win they make each one take penitence for their sins (i.e. refusing to leave the planet so that the Sisters can purge it), and then be given a quick death

Edit: i was right
"If defeated by the Space Marines, all survivors are treated with the utmost deference, and are given swift medical aid and safe passage back to the Convent Sanctorum on Ophelia VII where they will be at the mercy of the Inquisition. If defeated by the Imperial Guard forces, General Vance Stubbs remarks on his victory as a sign of the Emperor's will for their control over the system.

If they are defeated by the Sisters of Battle, all survivors are given a battlefield confession and a quick and less painful death."

Since when has logic had anything to do with WH40K? Last I recall the ecclisarchy keeps a wary eye on the Space Marines and their cults given that they've never fallen in line with the Imperial Creed. Given that I'd default to the SoB's being wary of them and their practices. Thankful for their service but always ready to put a bolt in the back of their heads if they step out of line.

aka_tizz wrote:Well, i think it comes down to the actions of every marine for this...I mean, if i remember correctly (and i'm not saying i do) in DoW Soulstorm the SoB's fight the Space Marines, and when they win they make each one take penitence for their sins (i.e. refusing to leave the planet so that the Sisters can purge it), and then be given a quick death

Edit: i was right
"If defeated by the Space Marines, all survivors are treated with the utmost deference, and are given swift medical aid and safe passage back to the Convent Sanctorum on Ophelia VII where they will be at the mercy of the Inquisition. If defeated by the Imperial Guard forces, General Vance Stubbs remarks on his victory as a sign of the Emperor's will for their control over the system.

If they are defeated by the Sisters of Battle, all survivors are given a battlefield confession and a quick and less painful death."

A. DoW isn't canon fluff.
B. I think you can take it as read that if the SoBs fight and beat someone the result proves they are heretics.

That said, I reckon in normal circumstances SoBs probably regard SMs with 24% awe, 58% respect, 12% pity and 6% disgust.

kilkrazy wrote:That said, I reckon in normal circumstances SoBs probably regard SMs with 24% awe, 58% respect, 12% pity and 6% disgust.

Gee, was that a cooking book recipe?
However, I know DoW isn't canon fluff, but it was the only thing i could think of at the time

And i don't wanna offend anyone, SoBs are kinda ok, but, when compared to SM's, they suck ballz. I mean, girlish power armor? Looks like *insert girlish silly cartoon*

SoB, from what I know, do indeed hold the SM in quite a bit of respect and good graces. The only disgust I know towards them is their use of psykers in their own ranks, Librarions. I recall reading somewhere how they believe they are the only ones who could do the job of stopping heretics and psykers because the Space Marines are too weak-willed with psykers in their own ranks. Yadda yadda yadda.

In the end, SoB are uppity female canines who enjoy their faith in the emperor so much, I'd say they themselves are no longer truly human. They've given up normal life in exchange to become bolter-bitches.

It would be all to easy for the questionable creed of an SM chapter to go that little bit 'extra' heretical though.

Well, i don't think the SoB would try to pound any SM chapter for going a little bit 'extra' heretical. Even though i'd agree they may go there, the sheer casualties they could inflict upon an Order may be enough to discourage even them.
And as long as they keep fighting for the Emperor and their interests don't get get crossed, they should be ok with each other

Would be fun to watch the 40k Joan of Arcs getting boob-boltered though...

aka_tizz wrote:
Would be fun to watch the 40k Joan of Arcs getting boob-boltered though...

wth?
anyway, SM respect the SOB and vice-versa, IMHO.

The Space Marines have been around since long before the Imperial Creed, and remember the days when the Emperor walked among them, and they had fun trashing alien planets. In fact, some of them were alive then. That's why they refuse to adhere to the Imperial creed, because they know perfectly well that it was something that came in later on. As a matter of fact, they remember the time when the Emperor used to forbid any kind of worship at all, as a sign of ignorance and primitiveness.

It would be difficult for a Sister of Battle to persecute or hate a Space Marine for not obeying the Imperial Cult, when he can say something along the lines of, ' Yeah, I remember when the Emprah made a speech about how religion is only used for brainwashing idiots'. It would be kind of like a Scientologist telling someone from the 1870's about how their religion is right. They'd just get funny looks.

As incarnations of the Emperor's will, I'd find it hard to believe that the Sororitas could hate them.

Kilkrazy wrote:

A. DoW isn't canon fluff.
B. I think you can take it as read that if the SoBs fight and beat someone the result proves they are heretics.

That said, I reckon in normal circumstances SoBs probably regard SMs with 24% awe, 58% respect, 12% pity and 6% disgust.

That is exactly correct!

And, coincidentally enough, it is also the formula for Classic Coke.

And Kentucky Fired Chicken.

Weird, eh?

It seems to me that the Sisters of Battle would have conflicting feelings about Space Marines. Sure, they respect their skill in battle(any right-minded citizen of the Imperium does) but at the same time regard them as something less than human(spitting acid, having pskers, etc.) AND a "necessary evil" being the work of the Almighty Emperor. Also disbelief that SM's don't regard Him as a god, since He created them. That and a slight touch of professional envy because the SM's are regarded as humanity's finest warriors, a role the SOB feel THEY could do, if given, say,

[list]bionics
combat drugs
more numbers
tanks, you get the idea.

Also, I get the distinct impression from my limited reading of Faith and Fire and the other fluff that the SOB and the Inquisition are the few folks outside of Loyalist and Chaos Space Marines who have any idea of what the Horus Heresy was about.

There is a SOB story, I think its called Blood and Fire or some such rubbish...anyway, there is one particular scene where they make a derogitory remark about some women at a society event, and Marines were used as a comparrison....I came away from reading the scene with the distinct inpression that SOB have very little respect for Marines.

Its probably worth mentioning here though, that according to the fluff, the Space Marines only carry an essence of the Emporers genetics, they are not necessarily made in his image.....they are made in the image of the Primarchs, and they, although classed as the Emp' sons, were only genetic manipulations based on his gene template.....yadda yadda yadda!!

By the way, can there be female Space Marines?

Remember when Sisters of Battle were ordered to investigate Space Wolves for their worship of Fernisian gods,they were forced to stalemate by the Space Wolves and they retreated because it's better to have them as allies rather than enemies and I think that First Founding chapters wouldn't be touched.I think that SOB mostly respect marines,but sometimes they get to zealous and think of them as some mutants and heretics and they should respect marines,without them the Emperor would have a hard time conquering the galaxy during the Great Crusade.

No one is above suspicion. It's really as simple as that.

Also, how is DoW not "canon"? I didn't know that GW released any statement to that effect.

Might depend on the chapter too. I can see SoB being quite happy with the Black Templars. And deeply suspicious of the Blood Ravens.

IM thinking it may depend on the Sob order as well other groups would have different views

Ketara wrote:The Space Marines have been around since long before the Imperial Creed, and remember the days when the Emperor walked among them, and they had fun trashing alien planets. In fact, some of them were alive then. That's why they refuse to adhere to the Imperial creed, because they know perfectly well that it was something that came in later on. As a matter of fact, they remember the time when the Emperor used to forbid any kind of worship at all, as a sign of ignorance and primitiveness.

LOLWUT!? Aside from Bjorn and many a Chaos Space Marine, there aren't any Astartes from the time of the Emperor. That's why a few see him as a god and some think him to be no more than a soul now. In fact, the only SM chapter who still follows the Emperor's will TRULY WELL is the Black Templars, and they've got eyebrows raised towards them in fear of them becoming heretics. No no, in fact, the only reason I'd say that the Space Marines are how they are now is because Gillyman is an idiot and ruined any bit of Emperor-truth that was left in the legions.

All the fluff I've read never had anything describing the first post.
Quiet the opposite in fact, the SoB accepting the SM as brothers.
Except in those cases where the Inquis. gets involved and that one book in the GK series where an Inquis. makes the GK out to be CSM...
I can't think of any of the BL fluff that has it in it???

I'd quiet like the idea of a missionary force holding out against a SM assault..

The SoB would just view the SM as another tool at the Emperors disposal. An interesting question I might pose here. I know that the Inquisition is fully aware of this, but is the SM creed, stating that the Emperor is but a great man, public knowledge? Or is it another closely guarded SM practice?

@Manchu: Nor have I.

Manchu wrote:No one is above suspicion. It's really as simple as that.

Also, how is DoW not "canon"? I didn't know that GW released any statement to that effect.

Nor did they release any statement that it is.

Well, what about the Old Ones? Or the Sensai...things? Has GW declared them canon?

The rather annoying answer GW will give you is that there really is no canon, for the most part.

It is a big galaxy, and the events can be seen and interpreted in way ways, yadda yadda yadda...