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Which of these two skirmish games do you prefer and why? I'm trying to decide which to get as my skirmish fix, I already have Warhammer for mass battles (Though I'm hoping Mantic will be changing this in the next couple years.) and WM/H for a mid point.

They both have such amazing models and settings. (Though in both I'm stuck between a few factions, Guild and Arcanists for Malifaux and Haqqislam, Nomads and Yu Jing for Infinity. What should I know about the factions to make this decision?)

Basically just tell me anything you think might help me decide which to play.

Thanks.

I think more people play Malifaux.
I've never heard of anyone who play the infinity game.

Malifaux has the interesting quirk that there is no dice involved. Therefore no luck involved.

At this point in time, I have a need for my miniatures to be multi-game pieces.

I don't play fantasy. I do GM a cyberpunk 2020 rpg, and the Infinity figures fit in well with this. Malifaux does not. I like the very anime cyberpunk aesthetic of it. This is why I play it. I choose my minis by how good they look to me.

I can't say the same for Malifaux.

I have never played Malifaux nor had a mini on my hand, so I can't have an opinion about this game.

I have read the Infinity rules, own the rulebook, the suplement and some minis, but I still haven't played. It seems pretty cool, and I love the minis. I don't know if the game is easy and fast to play, but I like it.

Newbie v vet games of infinity can be over in 30 minutes.
Vet v vet games can go for 3 hours.

My average game goes for about 45 minutes to an hour.
I've got to remember to include medics from now on.

VikingScott wrote:
Therefore no luck involved.

This is definetly wrong. Luck is actually a vicious part of Malifaux. A 54 card deck (52 normal plus 2 jokers) is just a different kind of random number generator.

If I draw nothing above a 5 when I'm trying to do anything, that's bad luck and nothing is going to work. There are times when you cannot use cards from your hand to affect the outcome of the duel. In these cases you are at the mercy of the deck. If you flip the black joker whatever you are doing automatically fails or is nullified in most cases.

We had a situation the other night when someone had to draw three cards and pick the lowest to determine damage. Well he flips over 3 cards and all of them are above a 10, which in this case provides maximum damage. That's pretty lucky.


I love the setting of Malifaux better than Infinity. I've been a huge Deadlands fan forever and Malifaux gives me the same type of enjoyment. Infinity doesn't strike any particular kind of cord with me. But both ranges have beautiful models and great rules. The background and the mechanics is what you need to evaluate.

The beauty and calamity of this decision is you can't go wrong with either.

EA said it... There's luck involved with Malifaux, just like there is with ANY game that uses a random number determiner.
It might SEEM like there's less luck involved, since you're only pulling a few cards at a time, as opposed to 40K, where you're rolling dice by the bucket-full... but there IS randomization and, therefore, luck.

That said, I've never played Infinity, and the models don't appeal to me much. I recently started malifaux, and I'm enamored.
You hear that, world? Enamored!
LOL

It's got a VERY well written background and, with the card mechanic, it's a different style of play than most other war games.

There's at least 1 guy at the LGS (MiniatureMarket) who loves BOTH settings.


Eric

Get both! One's sci-fi the other's fantasy(ish). Pick the one you're more into painting at the moment to do first then do the other when you get bored. It's skirmish, hence cheap... Why choose?

What I like about Infinity is that it's d20 based. Like Warzone and Chronopia way back in the day, d20 takes A LOT of the randomization out of the game. Yes it's still random and yes quirky things can still happen, but d20 offers enough room on your die to keep this fun instead of devastatingly frustrating.

You can win or lose a game of 40k or Fantasy based on die rolls because always having at least a 16.5% or more chance of failing is pretty massive. d20's minimize this and keep the game more skill base.

That being said, I still haven't had a chance to actually play Infinity, but the rules seem solid and the minis are absolutely stunning.

Wait.
What?

d20 takes A LOT of the randomization out of the game

That doesn't even make sense.
My using MORE variables (sides on a die), you're INCREASING the variables, not reducing them.

On a d6 roll, you have a 1 in 6 (16.x%) chance to get any specific result.
On a d20 roll, you have a 1 in 20 (5%) chance to get any specific result.

Also... d20 vs. d6 doesn't matter here, since Malifaux doesn't use either.

If you like the 1 in 20 chances of Infinity, you should LOVE the 1 in 54 chances of Malifaux!

Eric

chromedog wrote:Newbie v vet games of infinity can be over in 30 minutes.
Vet v vet games can go for 3 hours.

My average game goes for about 45 minutes to an hour.
I've got to remember to include medics from now on.

Ironically, I'd say my experience is exactly opposite of chromedog's. Newbie Infinity games seem to take forever because you have to explain the various special abilities units can have in the game. Although none of my games have ever gone for 3 hours, but being able to affect your opponent's figures during their turn is a nice change of pace. Granted it does add to the length of the game, most games for me average around 45 to 75 minutes.

I haven't played Malifaux, but I have seen a few games of it. I don't really know what to think about the card-mechanic, and it seems a little gimmicky. Personally, I've been enjoying Infinity A LOT. I think it is everything that a Skirmish game should be... Tactical placement of specialized units to defend, support, and attack offensive positions. Perch a sniper in a bell tower and he'll be a nightmare for your opponent to deal with. Unless of course you hidden deploy an assassin to sneak up on the poor sniper.

If you like a tactically rich game of cat and mouse, than you'll probably like Infinity. The awesome, detailed models don't hurt either.

MagickalMemories wrote:Wait.
What?

d20 takes A LOT of the randomization out of the game

That doesn't even make sense.
My using MORE variables (sides on a die), you're INCREASING the variables, not reducing them.

On a d6 roll, you have a 1 in 6 (16.x%) chance to get any specific result.
On a d20 roll, you have a 1 in 20 (5%) chance to get any specific result.

Also... d20 vs. d6 doesn't matter here, since Malifaux doesn't use either.
\
Eric

Well the OP was trying to compare Malifaux and Infinity. So I'm trying to speak for how Infinity seems like it will be less random than many mini games.

The reason why a d20 is less random is because it's more predictable. With a d6 in GW games, there's always a 16.5% chance that something will go horribly wrong. Your lord rolls up on some nubbins has five attacks and rolls three one's. That kind of thing happens way too often in WFB. You have three shooting attacks that will kill on a roll of anything but a one and you roll a one. With a d20 based game, you have five guys shooting and your chances of rolling ones are greatly diminished. Therefore those five guys will behave in a far more predictable fashion. A d20 system allows for far more variation in terms of results aimed for and results achieved. You can have guys fail or super succeed far less often depending on how you shape your mechanics. With a d6 system, certainly the way GW uses d6's, there's less room for nuance in terms of what results can be achieved with a die roll. When I used to play Warzone, I found d20's made for a much more fun game because things weren't always going crazy with ones and sixes all the time like they do in 40k and WFB. I certainly won or lost a lot fewer Warzone games based on luck alone and the game felt a lot more like my decisions mattered.

Now is Infinity more or less random than Malifaux? I have no idea because I don't have enough knowledge of either system to do the math. But given that Infinity uses a similar system that Warzone used to, I can tell you as an absolute fact it will be less random than 40k or WFB. It will also probably feel a lot like Warzone, which definitely did not feel like a random game at all.

@ Kas.
I see your point, now. I understand better where you were coming from.
I don't necessarily AGREE... But who said we had to? : )

You're right, as far as this goes:

With a d6 in GW games, there's always a 16.5% chance that something will go horribly wrong.... With a d20 based game ... your chances of rolling ones are greatly diminished.

Your chances of rolling a 1 are diminished. True.
I was looking more at a "pass/fail" ratio, however.

Barring special rules, in 40K, if you roll a 1 on your d6, you just miss. If that was matched in d20, you'd miss on a 1-3 (ish). If you're hitting on a 4-20... Well, you might as well be rolling a db. KWIM?

This, though:

A d20 system allows for far more variation in terms of results aimed for and results achieved

A variation in results is more random. So, if the quality of your shot depends on your d20 roll (I don't know the system, but this seems to be what you're saying), then you actually have MORE of a random aspect. In d6 games, a hit is always a hit and a miss is always a miss. There's nothing any more randome than that (again - disregarding 'special rules" on both sides).

In comparing Malifaux to my limiteld knowledge of Infinity, I'd say that malifaux is probably overall more random.
First, you have to see if you were successful. Then, the # by which you were successful, modified by other factors, determines how many cards you flip to determine the damage category you use.

It's a pretty simple mechanic, over all, though, and I'd definitely say it's not "gimmicky" any more than die rolling is.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:@ Kas.
I see your point, now. I understand better where you were coming from.

A variation in results is more random. So, if the quality of your shot depends on your d20 roll (I don't know the system, but this seems to be what you're saying), then you actually have MORE of a random aspect. In d6 games, a hit is always a hit and a miss is always a miss. There's nothing any more randome than that (again - disregarding 'special rules" on both sides).

Where it really hits home is with heroes and specialized models. You can have more variety in what success or failure results you want. In a d20 system you can have a super elite mega hero guy who only misses on a 1. In a d6 system, if you always fail on a 1, you can have your mega characters suck horribly. So a d20 system will let you represent a greater variety of skills with a lot more precision. When you spend 1000 points or whatever on some massive mini, you know what it will do. In a d6 system... how effective it will be is far more random.

Honestly, it also feels less random. I have no science or math to back that up, but when I need a 14 or less on a d20 to hit something, it ends up feeling less random than when I need a 3 or more on a d6. Is this based on science or hard math? No... but I have had far more positive experiences with not feeling unlucky in d20 games than in single d6 games. So Infinity will also probably "feel" less random as well.

Again, this isn't compared to Malifaux, which frankly I have no desire to play now that I know it's based on a deck of cards. I also hate the name and the entire concept/fluff of the game. But these are my own idiosyncratic quibbles...

Again, this isn't compared to Malifaux, which frankly I have no desire to play now that I know it's based on a deck of cards. I also hate the name and the entire concept/fluff of the game. But these are my own idiosyncratic quibbles...

See, now... Them's fightin words 'round these here parts!
: )
Honestly, though I don't understand it, I get it that the deck of cards bothers you. You're not the only one.
Since it's a non-collectible deck, I don't know WHY it would bother you... but that's cool.
That the concept/fluff is unappealing to you is kind of shocking to me.

Since the threads about comparing the 2 games (Inf. & Mal.), and this IS about Malifaux (and thus might help the OP make a decision), do you mind if I ask what it is you don't like about the cards & fluff?

Also curious why the name bothers you. : )

Eric

1) I hate steampunk. I just find it silly. Maybe it goes back to William Gibson being one of my favorite authors teaming up with Bruce Sterling who I think has trouble writing a third grade essay in crayon.

But I also do find the genre kind of stupid. I don't like the aesthetic of overly complicated looking mechanical devices adorning faux Victorian era clothes.

Mind you, this is my opinion and it doesn't mean that steampunk is bad, but I really find it a genre I don't like.

2) I have an innate hatred of card games. I feel like Magic and its ilk completely decimated the gaming industry of good games. I also don't like regular casino card games either. They're all about math, mind games, and luck. Not a fun combination for me.

Also I've been a huge Masamune Shirow fan since I was about 12. I still own the original American release of Appleseed which I bought when it first came out in the mid 80's off the comic book rack. For me, Infinity is like perfection in a bottle since it's basically every awesome cyberpunk adventure I've ever read or watched in a movie, condensed down to its most basic form of awesome. The intricacies of the complex political and social messages that one finds in these stories is 100 times more interesting than a mishmash of Victorian ghost stories that seem to be what Malifaux is. Also the Infinity minis are representations of every awesome amazing cyborg, sportbike, and suit of powered armor from almost every cyberpunk movie, comic or book I've seen or read for the last 25 years. I've wanted to see minis like this since I started playing 40k 20 years ago.

So Malifaux fails on two fronts for me. In its own innate lack of fluff or design that I like and because it's just that much worse compared to the fan explosion Infinity is for me.

Again, doesn't make Malifaux a bad game, I haven't even played it. It just makes it a game, I personally have no interest in playing.

I absolutely understand. Your feelings towards Victorian/Steampunk echo mine towards cyberpunk. : )

FWIW (and this isn't meant to sway you, only to clarify things for anyone reading), the card mechanic in Malifaux isn't like Magic (no "tapping" cards, not collectable, etc) or a card game (re math, mind games, etc).

Malifaux could be played with pieces of paper in a jar as easily as a deck of cards. There's not really any "suiting" or "pairing," etc. of cards together to speak of. Each card is only there in that it represents a number and suit. If you labeled 54 pieces of paper with 1-13 four times, and gave each one a different suit, then made Red & Black Jokers, you could randomly pick the slips of paper out of the jar as needed and have the same effect.

It's solely meant as a different form of randomization than dice, really.

Honestly, though, if you have a problem with (a) Victorian Horror (b) Steampunk or (c) Weird West, you will probably have problem with Malifaux (it's a kind of mix of the 3).
I was never a fan of Victorian Horror, and didn't care much about the other 2, either way. For me, it was the game mechanics and wonderfully sculpted minis that drew me in.

Eric

The only way a D20 system would be 'less random' then a d6 system is if they used the same rolling charts, IE: Space marine hits on a 3+ from a 6 sided dice. If an Infinity model also hits on a 3+, but on D20, then yes the infinity model is less random. BUT really we need to compare similar units, so a space marine equivalent would hit on a 7+ of a D20, which in the end has a similar chance to hit as a D6.

I think infinity looks cool and was considering it, im a little concerned over a 'hacker's' ability to just take my uber expensive robot though.

From what I've been reading on the Infinity forums, the hacking is fairly balanced and mostly used to control any robots that you might be using. Also it seems like a lot of the best lists don't use the uber huge robots.

The uber huge robot minis look so awesome that I'd let myself get hacked just to use them. There aren't many minis in that line that aren't completely amazing looking.

Negator80 wrote:I think infinity looks cool and was considering it, im a little concerned over a 'hacker's' ability to just take my uber expensive robot though.

As previously mentioned the hacker's ability to take over your TAG is extremely powerful ability, but the reality is that it is difficult to pull off. Remember that the hacking radius is only 8", so the hacker has to move or drop a repeater to within 8" of your TAG in order to hijack it,. With the game's built in reaction system it is extremely difficult to get fragile units into the range of TAGs without getting shreaded. Even if they get within range, then they must make two success rolls against your TAG's BTS attribute to hijack.

If you really fear hacker, then I would recommend playing Combined Army, as human hackers cannot take over alien technology, regardless of what Jeff Goldblum tells you... Best they can do is disable them, and good luck disabling the Avatar with -10 BTS...

Achilles wrote:Get both!
Why choose?

Nail, Hammer, Head.

If you can afford it, definitely get both games. The models are gorgeous.

I hated Malifaux's mini's at first glance, but they grew on me after looking a second time. the system looks interesting as well.

I have recently decided to pick up an undead crew...mainly for the hookers

Extinction Angel wrote:

VikingScott wrote:
Therefore no luck involved.

This is definetly wrong. Luck is actually a vicious part of Malifaux. A 54 card deck (52 normal plus 2 jokers) is just a different kind of random number generator.

If I draw nothing above a 5 when I'm trying to do anything, that's bad luck and nothing is going to work. There are times when you cannot use cards from your hand to affect the outcome of the duel. In these cases you are at the mercy of the deck. If you flip the black joker whatever you are doing automatically fails or is nullified in most cases.

We had a situation the other night when someone had to draw three cards and pick the lowest to determine damage. Well he flips over 3 cards and all of them are above a 10, which in this case provides maximum damage. That's pretty lucky.


I love the setting of Malifaux better than Infinity. I've been a huge Deadlands fan forever and Malifaux gives me the same type of enjoyment. Infinity doesn't strike any particular kind of cord with me. But both ranges have beautiful models and great rules. The background and the mechanics is what you need to evaluate.

The beauty and calamity of this decision is you can't go wrong with either.

+1, except, with Pokefaux, I will soon own and paint every mini the game has released... they are just that good!

I've played Infinity for a good 6 months on a weekly basis. It is really a good game. Great models; Fast, reactive. I described it to friend as playing Gears of War on the table

I'm currently playing Malifaux. I really like it as well and like it more daily. The minnies are cool and if you don't like them you're not locked into playing with just their models. you can rep them anyway you want. I like that.

Though I thought this was a bit funny

But I also do find the genre kind of stupid. I don't like the aesthetic of overly complicated looking mechanical devices adorning faux Victorian era clothes.

Mind you, this is my opinion and it doesn't mean that steampunk is bad, but I really find it a genre I don't like.

2) I have an innate hatred of card games. I feel like Magic and its ilk completely decimated the gaming industry of good games. I also don't like regular casino card games either. They're all about math, mind games, and luck. Not a fun combination for me.

I would venture that all Tabletop games are a combination of Math, Mind Games and Luck. And 40k is nothing but clunky overly complicated mechanical devices. Not knocking your view. Just doesn't sound rational. No disrespect or anything.

Malifaux is great, its an awsome setting and the game play rules wise is getting much better. If you looking into getting into Malifaux I'd wait till after Gencon, since thats when the new rulebook and new minatures are comeing out.

IIRC what I read, it's not a *new* rulebook. It's an expansion.
You'll still need the rulebook to play.

Some of the new stuff that's coming out, though... Wow!
Malifaux is in for some fun new twists (can't say more, as I signed the NDA).

Eric

According to the owner of my FLGS who knows the guy who actually casts the malifuax minis, its going to be an enterily new book. It will be the second printing rulebook with some new stuff added. Has something to do with them not differentiating on the orginally covers between the additions, i dunno.

Either way its a great game, and it has some of my favorite minatures to paint. The outcasts are awsome.

Hmm.
I'll have to poke around again, then.
Seems a shame to have to buy another rulebook already.

Eric

I think you can still play useing the first set of rules, if you have the second printing, but there is probalby going to be another longer FAQ, and you wont have any of the miniature stats for the new stuff. Im not sure though, now that I think about it. Wyrd has a way of takeing something realitvly simple and makeing it so confuseing itll make your head explode

I really did think that the second book was supplemental to the first, from the way it was explained to me.
Also, as I understand it, the [edited for NDA purposes] new models available would be in ther by themselves, not in addition to the existing ones.

I've gotta get to the store for some answers, now! LOL

Eric