Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

INTRODUCING CODEX HABAL

Hi, my name is Paul Bates, and this is the fourth draft of Codex Habal, a fake Warhammer 40'000 race & Codex. This is being developed over time as a creative way to create an original race in the universe rather than basing on someone else. The fluff is incomplete, as this is conceptual first and it's unlikely it ever see the light of day, besides it just get everyone moaning. It's presented as an ready PDF for playtesting and easier reading. Would you prefer a wall of text?
There will be unbalancing, typos, grammar mistakes and so forth, but with your comments maybe you could help me one step at a time. The codex formation is based on Codex: Necrons with traces from other codexes, including Warhammer 40'000's 6th edition changes.

What is Habal?

The idea of the race came around an discussion of what stereotype Warhammer 40'000 hasn't done yet. We have the might warriors (Space Marines), the basic man (Imperial Guard), the mass barbarians (Orks), the alien swarms (Tyranids) and so forth.
Hable was the idea of a race that's low-tech on purpose, that uses natural powers against the mechanical threats. Habal is a mixture of Native Tribes,Ghost/Shadow forms and Natural technology, that uses the environment to it's advantage over it's lack of defense

You can either read the PDF online here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/99626625/6th-Edition-Codex-Habal-Draft-4-Paul-Bates

Or download the PDF directly to your computer using one of these two links.
If the links don't work, let me know... It seems to go 50/50 these sites.
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?0nesw70uq1s835j
or
http://www.sendspace.com/file/m6mgm7
Please note that the DakkaDakka download is for the recent change logs, not the PDF.

Thanks for reading, enjoy the codex.
I will listen to feedback and change any serious problems. If things go well, I will continue the project.

The codex is currently 51 pages long, so here's a few previews since I can't upload them all here:
(I've added the special rules now to be viewed online if you don't want to download the PDF)

























Latest changenotes in the attachment.

FUTURE FEATURES:
Nothing planned so far, the 4th draft has just been released.
There might be a page showing all the different colour schemes for different Habal Tribes, using this picture:

(feel free to design your own)

One thing you're really going to have to accept is that your special rules are OP. I like the feel and you've got a great army niche carved out here, but it needs some playtesting love.

OP OP OP OP OP OP.

This army can never die. Teleport to transport whenever it feels threatened. Transports have we'll be back extreme, and better living metal than necrons.

Some suggestions: Shadow Matter is Deepstrike and Stealth. Keep it regular 2D6 scatter, but give them the option to negate the scatter entirely for D6 4+ hits. Now you're not impinging on other armies' gimmicks, while retaining the unstable energies feel you wanted.

Get rid of, entirely, the ability to re-deepstrike instead of any of those movement options. Unless you want all of your units costing 40+ points per model, this is ridiculously powerful.

Deep Rending is cool. The first ability (the one that negates explodes in exchange for +1 from fire weapons) is cool.

The reanimation is not cool at all; I'm not really seeing an increased points cost for it across the board on vehicles; for 60 points, your dedicated transport is better than 10 ratlings, while being a fast skimmer transport. Even without the special rules giving units the ability to teleport to it whenever they flinch, it still makes up its points no problem.

I think the thing you have to do is go through each unit and try your hardest to break it - give it optimal formation and chances and see what you get.

It's a good thing this is an early draft, eh?. I knew the shadow matter system wasn't complete but I just didn't know how to fix it without making it another Codex Deamons.
Quick question before I continue, you successfully downloaded the file I take it? Which link did you use? Downloading over here is having troubles and I don't know if anyone could've got the PDF

chrisrawr wrote:Some suggestions: Shadow Matter is Deepstrike and Stealth. Keep it regular 2D6 scatter, but give them the option to negate the scatter entirely for D6 4+ hits. Now you're not impinging on other armies' gimmicks, while retaining the unstable energies feel you wanted.

I like your idea of negating the scatter, but for a game of random dice rolls I never expected Habal to be always successful in it's deep striking (even with D6 penalty). I'm sure I can work upon this with this, thanks. I could top "Trick of Sacrifice" with 2D6 wounds with this also and lower the price.

chrisrawr wrote:Get rid of, entirely, the ability to re-deepstrike instead of any of those movement options. Unless you want all of your units costing 40+ points per model, this is ridiculously powerful.

I do still want the concept of redeepstriking, though it may not always be through methods like hit & run & morale (etc). I will think about something new then without drifting too far

chrisrawr wrote:Transports have we'll be back extreme, and better living metal than necrons

chrisrawr wrote:The reanimation is not cool at all; I'm not really seeing an increased points cost for it across the board on vehicles; for 60 points, your dedicated transport is better than 10 ratlings, while being a fast skimmer transport. Even without the special rules giving units the ability to teleport to it whenever they flinch, it still makes up its points no problem.

I wanted Habal to be the first army with 9 armoured vehicles instead of being 10 representing the the armour value of wood (rules page 79 building armour chart, 9 = wooden shed), but even for a low price, 9 was far too weak and worst than open-topped Ork 10!
I didn't want a Monolith defense vehicle (except Hybrix) nor did I want a cover/Invunerable save on the models as this seemed too boring and overused.
The reanimation was partly to do a Necron special rule flip but on vehicles, but it's more to do with the fact that if it dies on the battlefield, can't it just regrow on the terrain? (providing it's not a forge world etc, but this is a rule slip you should just bypass)

It was originally 5+ (4+ for Totem) revive but then it was a direct rip from Necrons, and felt it was unlikely they would get back up and no one pick vehicles for their army (especially transports for a deep striking army). You have to remember unlike Necrons with their good stats already, Habal are very vulnerable (par cover) and need a boost from better reanimation to match up, even if cheaper in points.

I wasn't too happy with the Transport cost, but I didn't think anyone would pick it if it was any more expensive, as you can't really mech this army without failing lots of morale checks (and just deep striking towards objectives). I was thinking about removing the Hawood bolts from the transport and just leaving it's Psyker powers instead, making it a bit more vulnerable when coming to weapon destroys.

Anyway thanks for commenting, I'm happy to have a reply. At least you downloaded the codex ok.
I wait for a few more comments before I make any actions to see different opinions but your notes are marked, thank you.

It's a numbers game; you've got a 60 points vehicle being taken by 60 points of troops. You can take 6 of them; this is 720 points. Those transports can rush toward the objectives and camp them, while the remaining 800 points of your army can deepstrike around - you have some fairly powerful options for removing tanks and swarms, as well as some beastly CC units; your opponent can either focus his efforts on killing your transports, which will come back half the time, and soak up a lot of fire, or he can focus on killing your main army - which means your transports are free to position themselves detrimentally to your opponent. And then on turn 5/6, you can just teleport your scoring troops into your transports; your opponent has to use at the very least 2 units to remove you from that objective on his turn, meaning if you are player b, you have a very nice chance of simply winning the game right there.

chrisrawr wrote:It's a numbers game; you've got a 60 points vehicle being taken by 60 points of troops. You can take 6 of them; this is 720 points. Those transports can rush toward the objectives and camp them, while the remaining 800 points of your army can deepstrike around - you have some fairly powerful options for removing tanks and swarms, as well as some beastly CC units; your opponent can either focus his efforts on killing your transports, which will come back half the time, and soak up a lot of fire, or he can focus on killing your main army - which means your transports are free to position themselves detrimentally to your opponent. And then on turn 5/6, you can just teleport your scoring troops into your transports; your opponent has to use at the very least 2 units to remove you from that objective on his turn, meaning if you are player b, you have a very nice chance of simply winning the game right there.

I do feel silly now. Then whoever uses that list certainly isn't a very fun person to play against.
But I see what you mean, even with a minimum of 10 models troops, it's still the same problem.
If the transports were removed, you just camp in cover gaining 3+ save (2+ with shadecloaks), and deep strike towards the objectives.

What have I done. WHAT HAVE I DONE!?

It's alright. If you manage to find a working way to get deepstrike as a main form of movement, you'll have my new favourite faction. I already like the entire feel behind their fluff and units, it's just a matter of un-breaking them xD

chrisrawr wrote: It's alright. If you manage to find a working way to get deepstrike as a main form of movement, you'll have my new favourite faction. I already like the entire feel behind their fluff and units, it's just a matter of un-breaking them xD

Wait I just thought of something.
What if it works like teleporting. When making a movement/morale deep striking, you could roll 2D6x2, and that would be the maximum range of where you can deepstrike. No D6 penaties (D3 remains), or something along these lines. D6 still for morale... maybe?

You may also notice I have quite a few edits in my posts, I quickly go back & forth on minor type details.

-edit-

Or just replace deep strike all together and act like a "jump infantry" movement using the rules above.
I'm not sure what to do with the vehicles just yet...

One thing that might work - Take a morale test. If you pass, you may teleport 2d6x2 inches instead of normal movement, entering play as if deepstriking. You scatter 1d6" on an arrow. You may reduce the scatter by the minimum amount to avoid a deepstrike mishap, but if you do so, you take D6 hits, which wound on a 4+.

First let me say I love this army! I haven't had a chance to dig through the rules, but it looks like chrisrawr is already doing a good job of that. The fluff, however, is very cool, and the art is simply amazing. I love the tribal feel of everything, and it really is an original concept for 40k. You could make this army work fluff-wise - the Imperium is always uncovering new, minor alien species (and usually destroying them, but c'est la vie).

Keep it up! If you get the rules balanced, I would be glad to play against this codex.

Ok here's the temporary exchange, let's see what we can work around here.
Remember a lot of units might deep strike in the movement phase, so it's can't be overcomplicated.

Shadow Matter

Gives units the ability to deep strike, never take dangerous terrain tests nor mishap into units, impassable terrain, off the board, reduce the scatter dice to the minimum to avoid this. If a hit is rolled you suffer D3 hits but if a scatter is rolled you suffer D6 hits instead, both wounding on 4+. 2D6 as normal.

During the movement they can exchange their default movement to redeep strike within 2D6x2 range with 1D6 scatter. First you must pass a morale check, if successful then you can redeepstrike. Same rules apply, if you hit = D3 wounds, scatter = D6 wounds.

You cannot deep strike via reserve if you don't declare you're deep striking.
Consolidation & Hit & Run can choose to Deep Strike but will always scatter.

If You suffer a morale check use the rules of redeepstriking ignoring the morale, you will always scatter regardless of hit.

Once deep striked by any means, you cannot move & Assault until the next player turn has passed. You can assault if using Wisp Beacon.

Rejuvenate Source

Same rules apply but if the vehicle is wrecked constantly then it's rolls to restore is increased by 1.
first death = 4+
second death = 5+
third death = 6+
fourth death = dead
These dice rolls also affect it's crew/damage dice rolls (4+, 5+, 6+), but only the vehicle being wrecked increases the permanent dice roll, not fixing the little things.

Some vehicles might cost a bit more more.
Totem's Doomsunder is now Heavy 3
Olisp's hydrabreath is now AP6
Olisp's moulden is now Strength 4
Olisp's Thundra is now AP-, Strength 3 but Assault 2.

Remove Fanma's always a scatter message (it already is).
Call of the Fanma has been decreased to 3+D3.
Vinelatchers have the Tank Hunters special rule, but cost +1point.
Soul Cage costs 65 points.
Soulclaim can only restore a maximum of 6 wounds.
Sky Cage costs 85 points

Soul Cages will not have Hawood/Rawood Arcs any more, including Deathtouch Bolts.

Wisps can be shot at, but not assaulted.

Wisp Beacon safely deploy within "6 of the Wisp (providing their's room with no enemies, board edge and impassable terrain) without any form of Penalities, and can assault when they arrive.

Prayer + Soul Lamp uses Soul Lamp's Leadership of 10 when casting and Prayer's BS 5 when shooting.

Mowers now have warpweavers but costs 65 points total.
Dregnard is an upgrade of a member of the Mower squad.
Mowers CAN be transported but take up 3 size per model.
Break Off is heavy D3.
Mowers roll an additional D6 when deep striking and will always scatter regardless of hit.
Dregnard has warpweaver.
Hexweaver starts with a Ralstaff with no additional cost.

There will be some other changes including some typos and minor unit stuff

I don't want to update the codex till the special rules are partly fixed. Let me know what you think about the current plans.

Although the special rules judges the army, I would like to know more details about the units. Check what's powerful or weak and fix that also (check the changes above)

I definitely like the current iteration of the deepstrike movement - you've balanced risk with reward very nicely, and cleared up a lot of issues with multiple small units simply popping about with it.

The one unit I really like so far is the spirit charger. It's got great application, great points cost, great flavour. You've done a really excellent job with this, but there is a LOT to go through which is probably why you're not getting much feedback. When I can convince someone on vassal to run this through with me, I'll definitely take it for a spin!

chrisrawr wrote:I definitely like the current iteration of the deepstrike movement - you've balanced risk with reward very nicely, and cleared up a lot of issues with multiple small units simply popping about with it.

The one unit I really like so far is the spirit charger. It's got great application, great points cost, great flavour. You've done a really excellent job with this, but there is a LOT to go through which is probably why you're not getting much feedback. When I can convince someone on vassal to run this through with me, I'll definitely take it for a spin!

Whenever you are free I'd be happy to play against you on vassal.

My name is Jgehunter on the main room.

im up for one right now;

Shadelight - Is this at the start of the Assault Phase, or "After assault moves have been made, but before blows are struck"?


Edit: I'll stick all my unit-by-unit proposals here.
Totem: Glare: remove penetrating hit. Shouldn't affect vehicles. Morale Test on 3d6 vs instant death?
Hailman is... kind of scary. I have him at 180 points for a WS7 S5 I6 guy with power weapon and 2d6 armor pen, with 3+ invuln in combat and 4+ out of, who deals S3 AP3 hits and also potentially slaps a model each turn out of existence. Oh, and he can wisp-assault turn 1.

Hybrix is ridiculous. Automatic 3-of. But he also competes with Mowers. Am I reading Mowers right in that you just... grab 12 of them, and have 24 BS5 S10 AP2 48: attacks a turn? And all of this for 720 points? Tau is super jelly <:3c~

spirit charger?
You mean Wisp?
I'm not sure who you mean...

Also chris due to lack of PDF page room and general grammar problems, not eveything is written out to fill out all answers.

That's why there is FAQs
always dump there here and I clear up the best I can.

-

Shadelight's method is correct there.

Glare
I won't remove the penetrating hit as it's the glare doesn't need to affect organic units, it's merely a destructive force against bone and metal.

Totem
I rather not have morale test (in replacement for instant death) as the Totem's already doing a morale test within 12, two tests is too much.

Hailman
Remember about wisps that they deploy like sporemines before either player sets up. The opponent has to think about his deployment and deal with any visible Wisps in the way, they can be shot at now.
I will weaken the wargear a bit, but I'm almost happy with his stats. I thought Shadeaura might be too good with the AP3 base contact.
Also I reduced the Shadeaura's price for the Hailman due to his Shadepath. Maybe I should restore it to it's full price of 35?

Hybrix
Hybrix is meant to be ridiculous, good thing he's slow.
In a way... it's the new (old) Monolith!
I wanted Hybrix to be the first 14 Front/Side armoured walker, but it should be a bit easier to kill... OR cost more points.

Mowers
"BS5 S10 Ap2, 48"
Wait, what?
It's Ap4, range 18, as well as losing a wound to shoot. Am I reading this incorrectly?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Post me your army lists if you do decide to play via Vassal. I love to know what's the big spam unit (par Hybrix)

Also I just thought of something... a TRIBAL race...



It's gotta happen

Yeah. The setup I've got now is 2 Hailmen with 2-handed stabbers, and 5 savages attached to each with 2-handed stabbers, and everyone deepstrikes in with wisps for turn 1 assaults while Mowers open transports up for them if necessary. It looks pretty solid, but I'm passing out now so I'll tell you how it plays when I get lucky.

Remember everyone with Shadow Matter can deep strike like the normal rules (except D3/D6 scatterwounds)
But it's still reserves and they can't enter turn 1. Turn2+

They can start on the battlefield and do 2x2D6 deep strikes from where they deploy though. It might 1-3 turns before they reach the enemy

Do you mean Scavengers? It's quite hard to tell what's what unless it's obviously typed close enough. The beast 12 assault range combo is great with Wisps.

If you misunderstood my updated intention for Shadow Matter, forgive me. There's deep strike when NOT on the battlefield and deep strike when deployed (2x2D6)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It seems likely I update the PDF tomorrow. Any more changes beforehand helps.

Whoops, scavengers, yes.

The 2X2D6 movement replacement, combined with wisps placed on the field before deployment, means I can assault on first turn (begin play 18-24" from enemy, teleport average of 14", beasts fleet, assault 12). With a hailman, I lose fleet and assault 12, but if we're deployed dawn of war style I can still manage to get the FTA off sometimes.

Wasn't you meant to help me to stop the codex being broken?
I mean, they could get shot up afterwards, but who knows how what they assault and where. Not to mention 2x2D6 deep strike consolidation.

I really hate it when Mephiston's "12 flight and fleets me on the first turn, and general beast tricks.

---

While we're both happy with Wisps, removing the assault charge would ruin their purpose.
I was originally thinking something like Mandeston's ability to charge when he deep strikes, but at (I)initiative 1, would that weaken Habal assaulting too much?

Ok the second draft is out
Still much to do and testing to try, but with the better special rules, it should be playable now... hopefully

http://www.mediafire.com/?gg33521t6jx2v48
or
http://www.sendspace.com/file/eei33y

You can read the changes in the attachment
---
I've tweaked a few things since yesterday, a problem with the special rule and screecher.

Ok I've got some notes for the next draft, but I need more comments.

I've got 3 vote downs which doesn't bother me too much, but I would appreciate a reason if you don't mind.

chris did you manage to playtest this yet?

havent had a chance :(

I be happy to test a game on Vassal, though I've never liked using it before... it's just not the same in it's simplicity design (plus no social connection either)

I did a test 500 points game with someone's orks, Habal turned out more fun than I thought but I certainly saw some required changes. I lost but dealt 350points worth of damage to them. I will do another with more points to test other units.
It was pretty cool that the Lord of the Ring goblins have bows and spears, great for proxying Prancers/Maimers than fantasy models.


Two things that will change:
Most units will have one less attack, 2 is too much for rending and WS5.
And I will remove the D6 scatter from Shadow Matter... it's randoms the movement far too much when compared to jump infantry and such. The scatter dice will remain for damage checks... though a system change might be in order

I'm working on big changes to the codex, but it really would help if I could have more comments to know the greats and faults.

Oh one big mistake I did for the Soul Cage which was meant to be changed is the line of sight for it's psychic attacks to 18 range.

I probably wont be able to this week; I have work until monday morning and then 2 days of moving my girlfriend in with me to do.

Ok third draft is out, a lot of big changes and hopefully the most playable yet, including another page for the Hybrix and a new picture for Mandeston. I might playtest a bit more soon, but more fixing comments helps too.

http://www.mediafire.com/?et3u88r4a11ai8k
or
http://www.sendspace.com/file/at4c0f
(PDF fixes have been made)

Changes in the file attached. Hopefully this should made things better

FUTURE FEATURES

Obviously it depends on the feedback but what's planned at the moment is to move Wisps into a 0-5 HQ additional, and move Converts into Fast Attack.

The HQ wisps will be split into aggressive and defensive forms, the abilities remain but may be split into two model types. One new idea is a wisps to act as terrain within "12 to help battles with little terrain, as well as the Shadow Matter ruling boosts.

Let me know what should be changed.

Also I might have a colour-faction page to make the PDF 50 pages. Maybe use this picture?
Let's see what colour schemes we can come up with...

Hmm, picking 1 dice of a 5 for deep rending might be annoying to sort out when dealing with multiple attacks. How would you sort the new deep rending system?

I have a few ideas for the next draft, but I need more opinions before anything is done. If anyone else can comment, you have my thanks.

I still think deep rending is fine as a 5+ rending (1 in 3), but you could also just keep it as regular rending and have it cause 2 wounds, or +2S.

This looks very interesting. If you want some help with the fluff I'd be more than happy to lend a hand. While some stats seem a bit out there (BS10 and WS10? Jeezus not even the Daemon Lords have that much skill.) it overall looks very interesting and flavourful.

Sorry for the delay, been busy for a while.

Kain wrote:This looks very interesting. If you want some help with the fluff I'd be more than happy to lend a hand. While some stats seem a bit out there (BS10 and WS10? Jeezus not even the Daemon Lords have that much skill.) it overall looks very interesting and flavourful.

Thanks, but it's conceptual first, fluff is optional, though I do have a brief idea how they work... just needs more 40k fitting. Mandeston is actually WS9/BS9, he just includes Habal War Paint, even so... it's amazingly high. Habal's stats are pretty low in some fields and make up with higher WS/BS, the current reason for this is typed below:

a basic Habal is already fully growned and trained upon creation, as a Habal must sacrifice part of it's matter to create others. They're not duplicates but do share knowledge of their basic race, however further training takes longer than any other race so most Habal cannot exceed their limits, figures like Mandeston are beyond rare.

Once in a century a chosen Habal could break the skill limits of his race and go beyond that Habal can normally achieve (aka MiniNeo), though most don't survive through battle to reach their maximum, except Mandeston. The Habal Core (heart of the Habal tribes) almost collasped between supporting and fearing him, which resulted in Mandeston's banishment from The Habal Race. He does appear to help his race in battles when the battle is unbalanced to them, even if he is unwanted.

chrisrawr wrote:I still think deep rending is fine as a 5+ rending (1 in 3), but you could also just keep it as regular rending and have it cause 2 wounds, or +2S.

The reason I changed is because Habal have low Strength and most of the time will be wounding on 5 & 6, and except for vehicles this is pretty much a power weapon for them, making Deep Rending pointless for that.
The idea of having a ONE 5 result is what I want to do, but not like the current rules. I think about what works.

I have a few changes to make, but I will wait till 6th edition comes and hopefully adapt it to the new rules.

Most importantly Wisps will be 0-5 HQ add ons, and can select either defensive or offensive flames. Defensive gives the deep strike benefits as well as being terrain within 6 of it. Offensive gives the same two abilities as before but perhaps something else to counter the handyness of the deep strike benefits.

It should be somewhat stable for now, or i'm deluded and made a broken codex... but thankfully that's just a silly thought!

Looks good so far, just needs some fluff and it will look like a professional codex. The Habal sound like they would be one of the many creations of the old ones made to fight the necrontyr.