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I consider myself an experienced player, and I pride myself on having a very tight grasp of the rules. However, Forge World is something that I have no experience with. I'll be playing in a GT in about a month, and it will be FW allowed. I personally will not bring any FW, but I want to know what I'm up against... So, what are the most common Forge World units, for all armies, and how do I deal with them best?

For example, I know that Tetras are very popular for Tau, and make the book into a competetive force once again. I'm also under the belief that the Stormeagle is rather popular.

Here are some of the FW units that I've been seeing/hearing:

For IG, Sabre Platforms are starting to become very popular as a cheap anti-air solution.

Marines have the Mortis contemptor dreads with their 12 skyfire assault cannon shots and cyclone missile launchers.

Though not FW, the stormtalon is probably the flyer of choice for regular marines.

Chaos has blight drones, but ever since the heldrakes came out, blight drones are not as impressive anymore. It's hard to top the heldrake, arguably one of the best flyers in the game currently.

I once played against an IG player with 3 vultures with tl-punisher cannons. Man, that hurts.

Those are my only experiences with FW (oh, and playing against tetras as well).

 jifel wrote:
I consider myself an experienced player, and I pride myself on having a very tight grasp of the rules. However, Forge World is something that I have no experience with. I'll be playing in a GT in about a month, and it will be FW allowed. I personally will not bring any FW, but I want to know what I'm up against... So, what are the most common Forge World units, for all armies, and how do I deal with them best?

For example, I know that Tetras are very popular for Tau, and make the book into a competetive force once again. I'm also under the belief that the Stormeagle is rather popular.

back in 5th, grot tanks were awesome in Kan wall lists. adding 20 more vehicles to the list could be a nightmare for any opponent.

The contemptor dreads are pretty awesome with the super assault cannons.

The spartan assault tank is pretty bad@$$ especially for chaos which doesnt have many LR options. Twice the firepower of a regular land raider, twice the capacity. 5 hull points and only a little more expensive than a regular Proteus.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

The short form of it: FW units come in three categories:

1) Things that are weaker than their codex units. For example, a LR Conqueror is just a bad version of a Leman Russ. These units have very little impact on your strategy because your opponent just brought a less effective version of the normal codex list. Win the game just like you normally would.

2) Things that are about average in power level. For example, the Tetra you mentioned: it's a good unit and adds something the Tau really like (mobile point-efficient markerlights), but it isn't a game-breaking unit. Read the rules carefully, and just apply the common-sense solution. The Tetra is just a low-AV vehicle with a permanent cover save, so deal with it just like any other low-AV vehicle. If you can handle a list with lots of Rhinos you will have no problems dealing with Tetras.

3) The rare few units that are very powerful (thought not necessarily better than the overpowered codex units). These will need special attention because they are effective, and often let you do things a codex list can't. For example, Sabre guns make a foot IG army instant death to flyers, so you'd better not count on using your aircraft (if you even bring any) to beat them. Read the rules very carefully, and make sure you can handle them.

The units that are in category #3 can be split into a few sub-categories:

1) Artillery. IG big guns, Sabre platforms, etc. These used to be well balanced (and usually pretty weak) under the artillery rules that existed when they were first designed, but 6th edition's change to make artillery into "MC"s with tons of cheap wound counter crew was a massive boost in power and they haven't been re-balanced to account for it yet. The result is extremely cheap firepower that is very durable against shooting (especially with an aegis line to protect it). You need either high-strength cover-ignoring weapons to kill the crew, or fast assault units to wipe them out where T7 doesn't apply to the crew.

2) AA. Thanks to GW's unbelievable stupidity of combining "can fire at ground targets at full BS" and "free shot at arriving reserves" into a single rule FW was forced to hand out the Interceptor rule to every AA unit so it could still shoot at ground targets like it did in 5th. The side effect is that now most armies have their own AA units, not just IG and their Hydras, and most of those units get to shoot first before an arriving flyer can do anything. And of course Sabre guns also have problem #1, making them even more powerful. In a metagame where people have figured this out and obtained the required models flyers are pretty much useless.

3) Flyers. Every army has them now. Some are good (Vulture), some are not (Remora), but if your metagame doesn't suffer from problem #2 removing flyers from the game you can expect flyers to be a much bigger factor. The FW ones don't really contribute to Necron-style flyerspam, but it's a lot more likely that every army will have 2-3 flyers. As far as "I can't deal with it" problems the Caestus is the only one that can't be dealt with by your usual anti-flyer solution. While it does have to become a skimmer to deploy its troops and earn its 300+ point price tag it is AV 13 and therefore hard to kill with the standard AA units (except Sabre guns, of course).

4) Lucius-pattern drop pod. The iconic "FW rules are overpowered" unit. Allows a dread to assault on the turn it arrives. Make absolutely sure that your opponents aren't cheating by using the old rules (it now takes up a FA slot and forces a dangerous terrain test on assaulting, and BA CAN NOT TAKE THEM) or using a standard drop pod model as one (the model is significantly larger). Most of the complaining about the unit seems to be based on the old rules, so be sure you realize that they have been nerfed a bit in the most recent update. Once you've ruled out cheating just make sure you deploy a decent assault screen around key units and don't give it an easy place to land. The dreads that are allowed to take one aren't very good in assault, so it's more of a theoretical threat and whine chance than a major problem. Surprise at "WTF you can assault turn 1?!??!" is the unit's only advantage.

Every unit I have that's going to be on the ground turn 1 is a big MC or is a large blob... so yeah... bring it on Dreads.

All input is apreciated! Which IA do Saber platforms come in, or can someone give me a brief rules rundown?

 Peregrine wrote:
4) Lucius-pattern drop pod. The iconic "FW rules are overpowered" unit. Allows a dread to assault on the turn it arrives. Make absolutely sure that your opponents aren't cheating by using the old rules (it now takes up a FA slot and forces a dangerous terrain test on assaulting, and BA CAN NOT TAKE THEM) or using a standard drop pod model as one (the model is significantly larger). Most of the complaining about the unit seems to be based on the old rules, so be sure you realize that they have been nerfed a bit in the most recent update. Once you've ruled out cheating just make sure you deploy a decent assault screen around key units and don't give it an easy place to land. The dreads that are allowed to take one aren't very good in assault, so it's more of a theoretical threat and whine chance than a major problem. Surprise at "WTF you can assault turn 1?!??!" is the unit's only advantage.

Just to clarify: ANY dreadnought (that even includes Contemptors) can be transported in the Lucius pod, however, as explained, BAs cannot take the pod. With the new "move through cover" rule, an Ironclad in a Lucius drop-pod doesn't even have to take the dangerous terrain test as it automatically passes it; combined with the grenade-launcher you now have a dread that will assault out of the pod with 4 attacks at normal initiative (not even mentioning the dual heavy flamers it can take too)...

The siege dread is also pretty nasty in a lucius pod, though it can also be served well just in a normal pod, that str 6 ap 3 flamer is nasty nasty.

As for the sabre rules, you can find them in the recent IA : Aeronatica that came out in ~september of last year.

The skinny is that they are a twin linked interceptor lascannon shot in groups of 1-3 that replace a HWT as part of an IG blob.

Points wise they are the same as a base costed ADL each, so.. really cheap for what you get.

ANother good FW iteam is the hyperios launchers for SM. cheaper than the sabres but only a twin linked interceptor missile shot. Take up an FA slot in groups of 3.

 jifel wrote:
All input is apreciated! Which IA do Saber platforms come in, or can someone give me a brief rules rundown?

IA1 second edition or IA:Aeronautica. I believe the rules in both are identical, but if not then IA1 is the more recent source.

 phoenix darkus wrote:
With the new "move through cover" rule, an Ironclad in a Lucius drop-pod doesn't even have to take the dangerous terrain test as it automatically passes it; combined with the grenade-launcher you now have a dread that will assault out of the pod with 4 attacks at normal initiative (not even mentioning the dual heavy flamers it can take too)...

So what? 4 attacks on the charge = 2 hits = a bit less than 2 dead infantry models. Or, if you're facing a mech list, a dead Rhino. And now the dread either dies in the assault phase or dies to melta next turn. That is laughably bad damage compared to what other units (for example, a drop pod sternguard squad full of combi-weapons) can do for the same points.

The lucius pod is only a "threat" because of the shock value of getting to assault on turn 1. Once you get over your "but you can't do that!!!!" reaction you realize that it's really not a good unit.

 jifel wrote:
Every unit I have that's going to be on the ground turn 1 is a big MC or is a large blob... so yeah... bring it on Dreads.

All input is apreciated! Which IA do Saber platforms come in, or can someone give me a brief rules rundown?

Dakka is no substitute for rules and research... but hint hint all the IA books are available online to any savvy Pirate who knows which Bay to weigh anchor in, while 6th Edition FW pdf rules are online. Sabres are in the latest Imperial Aeronautica, as are most updated 6th ed rules.

To people who scoff at dreads, I say: Bray'ath Ashmantle. (IA 9 The Badab War Part 1). in a Lucius Drop Pod. Now with 4 hull points.

I really want to fit him into my Deathwing army for that first turn alpha strikey goodness.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
To people who scoff at dreads, I say: Bray'ath Ashmantle. (IA 9 The Badab War Part 1). in a Lucius Drop Pod. Now with 4 hull points.

Sure, it will probably kill something. But dread + pod is over 300 points, and I really doubt it's ever going to kill more than 300 points of conventional units (combi-weapon sternguard, TH/SS terminators, etc).

I really want to fit him into my Deathwing army for that first turn alpha strikey goodness.

So 300+ points AND paying the tactical tax AND giving up your allies slot. It might be "fun" and have some shock value for an opponent who doesn't know that turn 1 assaults are possible, but it won't be winning any games against opponents who know what they're doing.

 Peregrine wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
To people who scoff at dreads, I say: Bray'ath Ashmantle. (IA 9 The Badab War Part 1). in a Lucius Drop Pod. Now with 4 hull points.

Sure, it will probably kill something. But dread + pod is over 300 points, and I really doubt it's ever going to kill more than 300 points of conventional units (combi-weapon sternguard, TH/SS terminators, etc).

I really want to fit him into my Deathwing army for that first turn alpha strikey goodness.

So 300+ points AND paying the tactical tax AND giving up your allies slot. It might be "fun" and have some shock value for an opponent who doesn't know that turn 1 assaults are possible, but it won't be winning any games against opponents who know what they're doing.

I suppose its one of those units who sounds good in theory- he is immune to 2d6 pen though, so a pretty tough cookie to start with. Pair him with a Libby with a force field generator and he becomes ridiculous. The thing is, with the ability to choose combats and kill vehicles and blobs alike he's dangerous to anything except fliers. You can't tarpit him with large cheap units,since he flames them all to death. Even Chainfist Termies are going to struggle (and honestly who takes these in Vanilla SM lists? Or TH/SS anymore? Striking last with a 5 to glance?

Pure Deathwing generally won't be winning any games against opponents who know what they're doing- their strength currently is everything coming in for sure on turn one, which makes for hell of an Alpha Strike in combination with an unkillable horde-roasting dread who can take pressure off the terms/tie up their shootiest. The Tac tax isn't necessarily a bad thing either, Someones gotta camp the backfield objectives... or they can just pod in and suicide.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Pair him with a Libby with a force field generator and he becomes ridiculous.

And also even more expensive, while still killing less effectively than death star units of equal point cost.

I'm not too worried about Lucius-pod Dreads... Sabre platforms sound not fun though. Tetras as well, but I just hate Tau... It seems to me that Necrons/Eldar/DEldar/Nids don't have any good FW options. How about Orks? I've never heard of any Ork units being called broken.

For it's point cost the warp hunter is very nasty for Elder. That rift cannon can surprise a lot of people with template of doom. Likewise the wraithseer used properly can turn wraith wall into a very tough nut to crack, albeit at a hefty cost.

What do these do/what IA are they from? That was a recent one though as I recall.

Nightwings are worth watching out for. They have a 2+ save if they dodge, so they can fly around and eat a bunch of shots. Plus they are not bad for firepower, given the volume of shots they put out. Personally I run two and just laugh as all the AA and then some of my enemy misses. Again, a unit that is easily countered simply by forcing a single save then ignoring it, but watch out for them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Both Nightwing and Warp Hunter are IA11

There're plenty of FW options for Eldar thanks to IA:11 . Nightwing is a very decent air superiority flyer, Warp Hunter a MEQ/High T killer and Hornets are the OP version of a Vyper. Those are things I'll watch for if you're facing Eldar. Shadow Spectres are also nasty MEQ killers, but they are pricey and die easily under high volume/low str shots.

Hyperios air defence launchers, as found in IA aeronautica are also pretty darn good, quite cheap for what they are (compared to a ML devi squad) with a few special rules on top, I own 8 of the models (a lot of dollar for resin really!) and they usually form my anti air anti tank and long range firepower in the 40k approved tourny lists I run

I don't have experience playing against them myself, but I've known tau players to like the xv-9 suits

The current rules for the fw heavy artillery http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/h/Heavy_Artillery.pdf
This is the sort of thing that gives ground to anti fw bashing.