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Now I know that the general concensus is Lootas by a long shot.

However heres my experience thus far after several 1000 pt games...basically my 8 lootas that I have are perpetually sucking balls,yeah bad luck all around..getting a bucket load of 24 dice and only getting 4 hits(saved for whatever reason as usual) crap like that.If they arent sucking in the shooting dept they are running off the board due to their paper armor or bad luck at cover saves. I suppose if I put a character with them and purchased another 2 dozen so I can have shovel fulls of dice I may start seeing some success.

Now on the other side of the coin I have converted a minimal group of flash gits,,4 to be exact with a painboy.These guys have yet to do me wrong.I run them in a looted wagon trasport I have and even when the wagon gets popped they usually survive due to the 4 up armor and painboy.Now the way I run them it costs 200 pts using the painboy and 2 of the 3 upgrades( I dont use the blast one).Basically these 4 flash gits have been way more effective than the 8 lootas.Im sure of course If I actually had 200 pts of lootas I would see a much more favorable result on that end..would that be 13?..14?.
Either way from a total cost perspective im thinking if I drop one of the upgrades(keeping the More dakka Assault 2 ) basically making the flash gits cost twice as much as the lootas.wouldnt the gitz be the all around better choice?.Shooty Nobs that have variable AP and igonore cover at 24" with str5?.

Or should I just stick with lootas and hope for my luck to change sooner than later....

I absolutely love the gak out of my lootas.
I play 1500pt games and run two groups of 10 lootas.

The are completely devastating against most opponents, and even when they aren't, they take a lot of attention away from the boyz.

technically flash gitz are stronger, but the issue is range.
Flash gitz will get shot to death unless you either outflank them in (which is a warlord trait to give them that) or spend TWO heavy slots to give them a BW to ride in.
You need those heavy slots, and youre using 2 of them. Thats the biggest issue i got with them....remove the lack of speed issue and theyre quite nasty theres just no way to do that reliably and not screw yourself in the process.

^agreed, one of the real, actual drawbacks of the gitz is that in order to move them about from place to place, you give up yet another valuable heavy support slot. So, you can only have two wagons in the list, unless you buy nobz to take a third dedicated. They are expensive, consume two of your most important force org slots, and even after that they really aren't game breaking good. They are excellent infantry clearers, with good shooting, ignoring cover and likely to get a good ap roll. Also, with T4, 2W 4+ save and FnP, they are pretty 'ard. They are also plenty capable of busting 'eads in cc too, and on the first time most opponents will be surprised at how solid they are in assault when they charge them to stop their shooting.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
technically flash gitz are stronger, but the issue is range.
Flash gitz will get shot to death unless you either outflank them in (which is a warlord trait to give them that) or spend TWO heavy slots to give them a BW to ride in.
You need those heavy slots, and youre using 2 of them. Thats the biggest issue i got with them....remove the lack of speed issue and theyre quite nasty theres just no way to do that reliably and not screw yourself in the process.

Indeed the heavy slots used is an issue.Hopefully they do something about that in the new codex.
I know that in the lower points ranges im playing in its not much of a big deal,I have a stock looted Rhino I put them in..well RR on it,heh.

With Allies now though im thinking of using Imperial guard as I plan my 1250 and 1500 pt builds.I have about 600 pts of guard now including a Russ I need to build.So perhaps my need for those Ork heavy slots wont be as urgent..though I can see an issue trying to get Battlwagons into the mix.humm..

thnx for the comments

Quite frankly, if they all had the 3+ not just Baddrukk and they could take a dedicated transport (BW or Trukk) they'd be a heaptons better.
3+ still isnt AWESOME but its considerably good. And the dedicated would solve the double heavy slot issue to give them some wheels to actually get to do anything before getting plastered by long range.

I havent ever fielded them because of that double-heavy slot crap. On paper though, i would LOVE them over lootas .... once they actually got to do anything that is lol (bound to lose half or more of them before they get anywhere by foot)

It's what Vine said. It comes down to Range and (IMO) AP.

On most boards, the DeffGuns and their 48" range will tag pretty much anything on it with the proper placement. The only exception that I've seen to this so far is if you have to play long board deployment and your opponent is hiding within that last 12" or so on their end. AP 4 is pretty decent and will make short work out of squads, esp if you get lucky on the D3 roll for number of shots.

With the Snazzguns, 24" range, STR5 and a D6 AP? Why bother when you can take Big Shootas with a whole lot more models. Granted, rolling a 1 or a 2 on the Str and wiping a Termie or two out of existance would be awesome, but its just not worth the cost in points compared to what else you can field as a Heavy Support choice.

Although, to be fair, taking a Painboy with them and giving them all Cybork does seem pretty tempting...

Mostly, they would benefit from the TL rule. The main thing to remember is that at their base cost, they aren't actually very expensive. They are nobz with 'eavy armor who get a cool gun for free. Buy shootier and moar dakka, and if you have the pain boy, go ahead with the blast upgrade for great ap. I'd skip cybork though. For their role, they are already quite durable and any points you spend on them should be added to increase their killing potential.

If BM's allowed any HS as. Troop ala WB and Nobz, that'd make taking FG's easier.

Flash Gitz are mostly a 'For Fun' unit, but there are definitely ways to maximise their effectiveness. I like them with a Warphead as transport rather than a Battlwagon -- he's cheaper and he doesn't take up a HS slot. Most of the results he gets on the table can synergise with Gitz.

In fact you could have a pretty nifty dakka-heavy army with 2x Warphead, 3 x Loota, 3 x Dakkajet (bearing in mind that they double their shooting any turn you Waaagh!, which happens quite often thanks to the Warpheads), 2 x Flash Gitz units, add troops to taste (probably shoota boys with big shootaz).

hmm warpheads + flash gitz...not a bad idea...

Hey, quick question: if you bought a Trukk for a 20-30man Shoota Boy squad, couldn't the Gitz embark on Turn 1 and just roll out from there?

I might be mixing up some editions here haha

T-

 Trogdor the Burninator wrote:
Hey, quick question: if you bought a Trukk for a 20-30man Shoota Boy squad, couldn't the Gitz embark on Turn 1 and just roll out from there?

I might be mixing up some editions here haha

T-

You can't buy a Trukk for a 20-30 man squad. Trukks can only be used for squad sizes 10-12 of just normal boyz/nobs. But you do have the right idea for the tactic. You can purchase a Trukk for the correct size of squad, have the squad disembark and the Gitz hop on during turn 1.

Just ran a 1500pt game against Necrons using flash gitz. This was intended to see if this and a kommando trick i noticed was legal was viable at all, i wanted intending to win (i won cuz he brought a 600pt melee deathstar that i shot out of the battlefield on turn 2 lol)

I ran:


The Warboss going with Snikrot was awesome, i put him in front and ate like 40+ attacks with his 2+ save, splitting into warboss on his own and kommandos going separate ways to krump tings when they can assault. I am totally doing that again (probably not with 15 boyz though, kinda overkill as its more getting the warboss over there than these guys)

Warphead went with the Flash Gitz. They didnt do jack all. They fired at the melee deathstar and caused 1 wound over 3 turns due to only being 18 shots hitting on 5s and rolling a 5-6 on AP. The cost? That group was damn near 500pts - FIVE HUNDRED!? (including warphead mind you) with that points i coulda just taken 2 Loota groups, have way more dakka/range/have points left over (which would have been the Burnas for my kommandos).

The potential of their power is awesome, its just the practicality of it is lame. Str6 isnt that awesome, 24inch range is average, and 2 shots is meh when the numbers are so small on the group.

Looking at the points, i noticed Flash Gitz are literally Nobz with 'Eavy Armor upgrade already paid for and a diff gun. I would like to see Flash Gitz removed and have the Nobz have an option to swap their sluggas/choppas for Snazzguns and have the same upgrades available to that gun. Kaptain Baddrukk can be available as well.
That way you can get these things either a dedicated transport OR warbike upgrades.

 DieselJester wrote:

 Trogdor the Burninator wrote:
Hey, quick question: if you bought a Trukk for a 20-30man Shoota Boy squad, couldn't the Gitz embark on Turn 1 and just roll out from there?

I might be mixing up some editions here haha

T-

You can't buy a Trukk for a 20-30 man squad. Trukks can only be used for squad sizes 10-12 of just normal boyz/nobs. But you do have the right idea for the tactic. You can purchase a Trukk for the correct size of squad, have the squad disembark and the Gitz hop on during turn 1.

I think you can still buy them it, but they can't embark on it until their numbers go down enough, or start embarked on it. Call it a getaway vehicle, handy in the relic when your 30 boy blob squad get's whittled down to 12, hop in the truck to stop you dyeing in droves.

no you still cant because Dedicated Transport rules states they must start with the unit they were bought for embarked.

You can buy a random trukk and waste a troop slot but feth that.

Orks can only buy dedicated transports for nobs, MANz, and boyz, and then only if the unit will fit into their trukk/wagon. Also you can only get a trukk as a dedicated transport, not as a standalone unit.

However you don't have to start any units with DTs in their DT, because some other armies can buy them for units that are too big to fit. The restriction is that they're the only ones who CAN start inside the DT. Other units have to wait until your first turn to get in.

I found what works for one person may not work for every one. If flash gitz do good for you and lootas don't, use the flash gitz. Even if points wise they aren't the best choice. What works for you is what works for you. What works for me is mad doc every time.

One thing that may be against the lootas despite the internez OMG lootas... Well because of the internet every one knows just how powerful load and burnas are and kills then off first, so it's good to use then at that point for a diversion unit.

Shoota Boyz are the best for shooting infantry. They are far beyond Lootas or Flash Gitz. Don't bother with Gitz. If you need to kill infantry use Shoota Boyz.

If you need anti vehicle firepower you can always use Kannons. S8 AP3 with BS3. Cheap and T7 grot wound models.

Something to also keep in mind is you might as well be using your Lootas with an Aegis defense line. Gives you a 4+ cover save and a 2+ go to ground for your survivability issues.

9 to 10 Lootaz are the bane of AV10-13, easily able to knock any vehicles within this range out of the fight in 1 round. Keeping them this size allows you to go to ground and gain 3+ cover in both ruins and area terrain, while still retaining most of their anti-armor ability, and more importantly, all of their anti-air ability (which is formidable).

I haven't used the Cowardice Defense Line to date, but my opinion is that saving that 50 points means 2 more Power Klaws or something else cooler than a fence.

Gitz are just too expensive, random and take up that valuable HS slot. They can be devastating, but generally you'll find points better spent in Shoota Boyz to mow down infantry as stated.

They're great if you want to make a themed army, and pretty damn shooty with the Kaptn leading them, but pound for pound you'll find more shooting elsewhere in the dex.

Yeah, to make it clear, gitz are a pretty lousy use of points. They are considered awful for a reason, and that reason is being expensive, taking up a valuable slot, and having a low volume of fire combined with lousy bs. But, they have a great flair to them, and are just so cool. Use them if you want to, they are very classy but taking them is essentially a handicap.

One trick with Flashgitz, have them shoot a Quad Gun.
Gitfinders are a piece of Wargear, not a rule for their Snazzgun. So you get to ignore cover saves.

However heres my experience thus far after several 1000 pt games...basically my 8 lootas that I have are perpetually sucking balls,yeah bad luck all around..getting a bucket load of 24 dice and only getting 4 hits(saved for whatever reason as usual) crap like that.If they arent sucking in the shooting dept they are running off the board due to their paper armor or bad luck at cover saves. I suppose if I put a character with them and purchased another 2 dozen so I can have shovel fulls of dice I may start seeing some success.

Now on the other side of the coin I have converted a minimal group of flash gits,,4 to be exact with a painboy.These guys have yet to do me wrong.I run them in a looted wagon trasport I have and even when the wagon gets popped they usually survive due to the 4 up armor and painboy.Now the way I run them it costs 200 pts using the painboy and 2 of the 3 upgrades( I dont use the blast one).Basically these 4 flash gits have been way more effective than the 8 lootas.Im sure of course If I actually had 200 pts of lootas I would see a much more favorable result on that end..would that be 13?..14?.

But here's the thing, you are playing at a low point level for 40k. In addition, you are using Lootas in a weird number. Take 2-3 squads of 10 behind an Aegis Defense line. When shot, go to ground and get a 2+ save. You can still snap fire. If used correctly, Lootas are one of the best static fire units in 40k