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Ok... not random per se.

As I said on news/rumors with the reports of the game possibly getting new life... I want in. I've wanted to play this game for probably a decade, but have decided to pull the trigger.

I own, unassembled, an Escape from Goblin Town, and a metel-set of the Fellowship of the Ring. I also got an incredible deal online for every source-book for the current game.

Now its time to buy models. I have access to a couple stores with decent stock just begging to be cleared out (DEEP discounts). Problem is, having never played, I don't know what to buy.

I don't think the wife and I have a sense for what armies we want to focus on right now, so is it reasonable to buy a stray box of Mirkwood Elves, a box of Erebor Dwarves, etc... and stick them with the corresponding Fellowship member and just say, "Hey.... Free People's list... bam"? I know allies seem restricted only by Good/Evil with the buy in for 12 warriors being a corresponding hero. Is that right?

We'll probably be building two armies, Good and Evil, assuming we'll be each-others primary opponent outside of the game suddenly blowing up in the NY area. :-p

SBG is a very flexible game as far as list building. The big three restrictions are:

- good factions cannot ally with evil factions
- you need a Hero from X list to bring (up to 12) Warriors from X list
- no more than 33% of the Warriors in a contingent can be armed with bows

And there are some exceptions to that last one.

So you are pretty safe getting whatever you want/can.

You could certainly use Legolas from your Fellowship set to lead Mirkwood guys. And you can use Gimli from the set to lead the Erebor guys.

As a newish player to this system myself, one idea I was wondering about the general acceptance of is using normal figures as heroes. I'd definitely want to distinguish them somehow, but what are the thoughts on using, for example, a normal dwarf warrior with a silver ring added to the edge of his base as a generic dwarf captain?

When it comes to tournament play, you always have to ask your TO.

In terms of pick up games, it is down to your opponent. Personally, I would not mind as long as the figure was (a) from the right product line and (b) distinguishable from Warriors. Also, SBG is a WYSIWYG game so keep that in mind when it's time for conversion.

 TheWaspinator wrote:
As a newish player to this system myself, one idea I was wondering about the general acceptance of is using normal figures as heroes. I'd definitely want to distinguish them somehow, but what are the thoughts on using, for example, a normal dwarf warrior with a silver ring added to the edge of his base as a generic dwarf captain?

I tend to go a bit further for my captains and do a small conversion - a different weapon or a cloak, for example. But the principle holds - just make some effort to distinguish them from the rank and file and I've never come across anyone who objected.

The Dark Ages/medieval plastics from Gripping Beast, Conquest, Fireforge and the like are great for horns, banners, shields and a range of weapons that go nicely with the LotR plastics (and may save you a bit of money on the command boxes too). WFB bitz are generally too big - you may get away with weapons, but head swaps are usually a no-no.

@OP - you can do just what you suggested. Learning how to use unit/hero synergy and the heroic economy are for later in your exploration of the game, should you wish. Sticking Gimli or Legolas with a bunch of appropriate troops is a great way to get started.

Sounds good. Thanks guys. Between Ebay lots going for... God... embarrassingly little, and stores clearing out the game, I feel like now is just an amazing time to scrape together a couple hundred bucks, and buy stuff for something I have been wanting to do forever.

I'd wait, but there is every chance that a GW release may be met with price hikes, surging interest, etc...

So do mono-armies TEND to still do better? Are their heroes whose bonuses extend only to their race, and as such encourage you maximizing their value as a force multiplier?

Honestly, I'm the last person to ask - I play games to drink beer, talk nonsense with my friends and pretend to kill orcs. The forces I build tend to be based on "what I like painting"

Although Middle-Earth is a pretty good background for stories, journeys and campaigns too.

That's more than fair. As I said, I imagine 95% of the times I get to play this game, will be versus the wife, and for fun. :-p

There are some Heroes that only give a bonuses to certain troops. For example, only wargs can use the Warg Chieftain's Stand Fast ability (Stand Fast being an important way to manage Courage tests). The only definite benefit of taking your entire force from a single list is, all other things being equal, maybe squeezing in a few extra bows because the bow limit applies separately to each allied contingent of your forces. SBG is a very well balanced game with lots of good options across all the lists and the rules do not discourage allying.

 Manchu wrote:
There are some Heroes that only give a bonuses to certain troops. For example, only wargs can use the Warg Chieftain's Stand Fast ability (Stand Fast being an important way to manage Courage tests). The only definite benefit of taking your entire force from a single list is, all other things being equal, maybe squeezing in a few extra bows because the bow limit applies separately to each allied contingent of your forces. SBG is a very well balanced game with lots of good options across all the lists and the rules do not discourage allying.

It honestly sounds amazing. I am so confused by people trying to make 40k into some viable, competitive, tournament system, when this exists. Likewise, with rules as simple and clean as what I am reading (just started in on the full rules), I am amazed THIS didn't become Age of Sigmar.

I suspect it is because SBG is best suited to low model count whereas AoS was designed to use whatever you have/want to buy, including all at once should one desire. As for being a tourney game, SBG has a nice balance of luck and skill - but perhaps still too much luck for those who really want to prove their skill. The game is set up so that even the least of Warriors can potentially knock out the greatest of Heroes.

 Manchu wrote:
I suspect it is because SBG is best suited to low model count whereas AoS was designed to use whatever you have/want to buy, including all at once should one desire. As for being a tourney game, SBG has a nice balance of luck and skill - but perhaps still too much luck for those who really want to prove their skill. The game is set up so that even the least of Warriors can potentially knock out the greatest of Heroes.

Well considering some of the themes at work in The Hobbit/LotR I wouldn't have it any other way. In a series so much about unlikely heroes, the fluke cases where a hobbit takes out a Ring Wraith sounds pretty awesome to me. :-)

You will appreciate Eowyn's stats then.

The list building is one of my favourite things about LOTR, in the way it's so balanced as to be pretty fair no matter what combination you choose.

There are bad match ups and the odd outlier, but in the friendly games I've played I've found you can do what you like within reason and it works.

I'm not a huge fan of the Warband thing if I'm honest because I like being able to just run a bunch of heroes vs. a standard force for the true heroic skirmish feeling. But it's easy to ignore those restrictions for fun if you like.

Well you can certainly run a bunch of Heroes. But if by "standard force" you mean a force with no access to MWF then you hit a snag. But it would be seriously terrible if it was possible to field a force without MWF because these stats, especially Might, make up such a huge part of the game.

Really? I thought you needed to have warriors with your heroes? Do you just run a bunch of 1 hero warbands?

Sorry, I'm obviously ignorant!

By standard force I just meant a group of orcs say, lead by a couple of captains.

Yeah the rule is you can have up to 12 Warriors for each Hero, where the Warriors must be from the same list as the Hero. You can definitely take lists made up entirely of Heroes.

I think the only problem with SBG list building is that there is a pull toward Warriors. See this thread for my suggestion to encourage more Heroes, Monsters, and upgrades.

 Da Boss wrote:
Really? I thought you needed to have warriors with your heroes? Do you just run a bunch of 1 hero warbands?

Sorry, I'm obviously ignorant!

By standard force I just meant a group of orcs say, lead by a couple of captains.

Yes but not all the all-heroes armies are perfectly viable. The point is that the game is low on power level so is difficult curb-stomp or being curb-stomped completely, both model-wise and list-wise. More skilled players can run difficult all-hero list. Big players can win tournaments with a list made of nazguls all on fel beast, I would loose catastrophically

O course probability is an harsh mistress but more 6 than what is healthy can have a moria goblin make wonders, where in other games the outcome is just "NO".

There are heroes tough that are one man army. Aragorn with Anduril is a murder machine.

The warbands balance things a bit. You need heroes and might but troop support is very useful. Still, you can talk with the opponent and organize a match heroes vs heroes like White Council vs Nazgul, I guess. Something like that.

I used to stack up equal points fellowship vs. my moria goblin force when I started out, and the games were a lot of fun even if not perfectly balanced - we still had a fair enough chance. And seeing Gimli fight off a literal horde of goblins was awesome.

You can do this with current rules, no problem. It will just be a lot of goblins (even with some cave trolls).

Just came back, and thought I would list my haul. On average I was getting a 60% off discount. On the plus side I got a lot of cool options, on the down-side I didn't get much in the way of Cavalry, Monsters, etc... so for a while I will be financially tapped, and won't be able to experience every facet of the system fully.

I bought

4x boxes of Isengard Uruk-Hai warriors
3x boxed of Mordor Orcs
1x box of the Finecast Uruk-Hai beserkers
Lurtz
Saurumon
Grima Wormtongue
Some kind of "Weathertop" box, mostly to get five metal Ring Wraiths

1x box of Mirkwood Warriors
1x box of Mirkwood Rangers?
1x box of Dwarf Warriors`
2x box of Last Alliance Warriors
1x box of Minas Tirith Warriors
Elrond and Gil
Galadriel

And these will be added to the Fellowship of the Ring which I already owned, plus I have an entire Escape from Goblin Town, meaning Thorin's Company + a small mountain of Goblins/Goblin King, etc...

How'd I do?

I figure we wanted options to run lots of the iconic faces of the books/films, and thus I tried to get at least some warriors who could match up to someone in the Fellowship.

Well 60% off is great. Are these 12-man or 20- or 24-man boxes? If the former, you can basically count on needing a Hero for each - if the latter, even more Heroes!

One thing I've found useful when planning is this army building spreadsheet:

http://www.lonelyknight.0fees.net/

 TheWaspinator wrote:
One thing I've found useful when planning is this army building spreadsheet:

http://www.lonelyknight.0fees.net/

Thanks for that link! Very useful

 Manchu wrote:
Well 60% off is great. Are these 12-man or 20- or 24-man boxes? If the former, you can basically count on needing a Hero for each - if the latter, even more Heroes!

They are 12-man boxes... but I believe the Uruk-hai might only be ten to a box? (I haven't opened them yet).

Any other suggested purchases? I'm thinking of a monster and some cavalry per Good/Evil so I can at least see all the mechanics at work?

Monsters and cavalry are both good choices. But you will need more (specifically, evil) Heroes for sure. You may want also want Tauriel to go with your Mirkwood Rangers.

 Manchu wrote:
Monsters and cavalry are both good choices. But you will need more (specifically, evil) Heroes for sure. You may want also want Tauriel to go with your Mirkwood Rangers.

As notable (IE, not just painting a generic as a Captain), Evil Heroes go, I now have Sarumon, Grima, Lurtz, four of the different Ring Wraiths, the Witch King, the Goblin King, Goblin Scribe, Goblin Captain (all thanks to Goblin town).

Is that still lacking?

Oh, which Troll kit comes with the ability to do the Mordor War-Drum Troll? I think sheer awesomeness and army-wide courage buffs demand I buy one. :-p

Keep in mind that Heroes and Warriors have to come from the same list. Lurtz and Saruman can lead a warband of Uruk-hai or Orcs - your Nazgul can lead Orcs but cannot lead Uruk-hai - Grima works differently, he deploys with one of your opponent's warbands (he's a traitor as you may recall) - the Goblin Heroes can only lead Goblins. Also Nazgul are pretty expensive for low-point games. You need some Orc Captains and Uruk-hai Captains.

There is a plastic troll kit with options to build an armored Mordor Troll, an Isengard Troll, or a Mordor Troll with the drums,

So just to update this thread, and where I am... I hit up a few stores, and horrified at the lack of stock, I tried looking for some items online.

Shockingly enough, ordering from GW direct, was in several cases the cheapest option.

As i've ended up settling on Dwarves (both Durin's Folk and Hobbit-era Erabor eventually) I bought some of those (and can proxy them in mono-lists for a bit), and then some Mordor/Isengard for the wife to run mono or allied.

Picked up...

1 box of Warriors of Erebor
1 box of Grim-Hammers
1 box of Dwarf Warriors
1x Dwarf Captains set (2 Cap + Banner + Horn)
1 set of Iron Guard (4 guys)

And for the wife

2x that Plastic Mordor/Isengard Troll kit
1x Troll Chieftan
1 set of Mordor Orc captains
1 set of Uruk-Hai Berserkers
1 set of Isengard Uruk-hai captains.

All in all, between those, and that mountain of purchases from a couple days ago, plus owning Goblin Town and the Fellowship, we spent about $450 total, and can easily field loads of different permutations of lists, and even easily getting to 1200pts per side without resorting to super-expensive heroes. :-)

One of the Dwarf "Captains" from that set is actually probably a shield bearer. Did you get the Finecast Dwarf Command set? In that set, the one that is leaning forward behind his shield is the captain, and the one holding his axe aloft is the shieldbearer. Of course, there's no reason why you can't use them both as captains if you want, but I felt I should clarify.

You should definitely be set for a while, though!