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I thought FW is a subsidiary of GW, so why are their products kept at an arms length apart? Shouldn't GW be consolidating rules or aknowledge the presence of FW models and incorporate them into the newest rules and formations? Can anyone explain to me why they keep both entities seperate

Well....
First, FW can´t keep up with that complete, crazy supplement-spam of late anymore.
Second, GW did that last time with the IG-codex in the 5th edition/Escalation. No clue, why they stopped that.
Third, its GW. They don´t talk that much with their own subsidiary.... And they tend to change their plans in very weird ways.

GW fosters a divide between itself and Forge World. This is rather unique as it's other subsidiary, Black Library, is heavily tied into what GW main is doing. This can be seen with just how many new GW releases have a tie in novel.

If I had to guess why this is the case it is probably because GW believes GW main and FW cater to different audiences. GW main mostly caters to younger demographics with an emphasis on recruiting, not retaining. If I had to guess this idea of catering to a younger audience is why GW is on a crusade of making all of it's models into easy to assemble HIPS kits despite the fact that resin and metal have very useful appplications as a medium. Highly detailed character models as an example. Resin kits are more difficult to assemble especially with the younger demographic GW main aims at.

Forge World, on the other hand, caters to older gamers. Their kits are high quality and very expensive. They produce niche miniatures that are harder to assemble than HIPS kits.

GW main also refuses to produce rules for things they don't make a model for. Rules for them are a vehicle to sell models. Yes, I realize the expense of acquiring rules would seemingly preclude this notion but a lot of what GW does is very self contradictory. I also realize that Forge World models are also technically stuff they make. GW sees Forge World models as seperate yet compatible with their rules.

(Note: I also realize that resin kits can be made in a way that they are easily assembled and other manufacturers do so. And I know Wyrd miniatures are making well detailed HIPS kits. This argument assumes a GW centric perspective.)

Yeah its a bit annoying sometimes
But its nothing a quick Email to FW cant fix

I think it's because they still want to have FW seen as a different brand, for whatever reason. Also, it's likely because you can't buy FW models in a GW store (yet; I heard a rumor somewhere that they were working on consolidating it, at least for ordering), so it would be weird to show things and then say oh but you can't buy this in a store, have to go online and order it from the UK.

It does suck though, because some of the FW stuff are pretty awesome and really help armies, like for CSM the weapons batteries from FW really bring up their stock; if you could have taken a formation of them in Traitor's Hate...

Given that Mymeara actually has formations that allow the vehicles there in a Craftworld Warhost I think the problem is that most armies' FW units are in books released before their meta-detachments appeared. If they were to do a 3rd version of Imperial Armour 2 it'd have formations that permit Relic Predators, Sicarians, Spartans, et cetera in the Space Marine meta-detachments, for instance.

There are a lot of FW models in GW codexes.
There is the Vendetta upgrade kit for the Valkyrie for an example.
Most now have GW kits to replace older FW kits, though, so the numbers are dropping.

 Skinnereal wrote:
There are a lot of FW models in GW codexes.
There is the Vendetta upgrade kit for the Valkyrie for an example.
Most now have GW kits to replace older FW kits, though, so the numbers are dropping.

Not...really? Any FW kit that's got rules in a GW book is an alternate sculpt that GW makes a plastic for (The only exception I've found so far is the Vendetta).

Lack of communication and common strategy, I think. FW is mostly seen (by the company) as their luxury branch. However, GW prices are so high that the price tag isn't different enough anymore to justify FW being seen as that.

I'd love to see FW and GW becoming only 1 thing, making all Imperial Armour stuff 'normal' supplements (like Shield of Baal is, for example).

I have models that I'm forced to field a CAD if I ever want to put them in the battlefield. Lucky me, IA14 is coming - but how about Dark Eldar players wanting a Tantalus? Why they can't get a nice formation to use it in the field?

sturgeondtd wrote:
I thought FW is a subsidiary of GW, so why are their products kept at an arms length apart? Shouldn't GW be consolidating rules or aknowledge the presence of FW models and incorporate them into the newest rules and formations? Can anyone explain to me why they keep both entities seperate

FW isn't even a subsidiary, they're just another internal division like Accounting or IT, they do things that don't have the market to do profitably in plastic.

But yes, in general the mainline GW studio do their best to typically pretend FW doesn't exist and to make FW as inaccessible as possible. It's very odd. Nobody really has a clear reason as to why.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
There are a lot of FW models in GW codexes.
There is the Vendetta upgrade kit for the Valkyrie for an example.
Most now have GW kits to replace older FW kits, though, so the numbers are dropping.

Not...really? Any FW kit that's got rules in a GW book is an alternate sculpt that GW makes a plastic for (The only exception I've found so far is the Vendetta).

This is true now, but wasn't a few years ago. For a long time the only Vanquisher, Hydra, Exterminator, Executioner, and Medusa and Griffon models (when such were codex units) were FW, along with others I'm probably forgetting.

TheCustomLime wrote:If I had to guess why this is the case it is probably because GW believes GW main and FW cater to different audiences.

This makes the most sense to me. FW not only writes rules in a different way, they have a different aesthetic. I think it shows very well in the character series and their newer word bearer sculpts. The new Gw plastic chosen and kharn look awesome. But the FW chaosified models look much more menacing in a subtle way. Everything FW just gives of a more mature Vibe to me.
If only they weren't so slow. I would buy almost exclusively from them. They seem to have a vision of 40k that matches the lore much more than GW if you ask me.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
There are a lot of FW models in GW codexes.
There is the Vendetta upgrade kit for the Valkyrie for an example.
Most now have GW kits to replace older FW kits, though, so the numbers are dropping.

Not...really? Any FW kit that's got rules in a GW book is an alternate sculpt that GW makes a plastic for (The only exception I've found so far is the Vendetta).

This is true now, but wasn't a few years ago. For a long time the only Vanquisher, Hydra, Exterminator, Executioner, and Medusa and Griffon models (when such were codex units) were FW, along with others I'm probably forgetting.

The Exterminator had a GW kit. It was metal autocannon barrels, with metal sandbags and a metal Catachan tank commander pointing and poking out of the hatch.

Right, but they discontinued it for six or seven years during the last part of 3rd through 4th and early 5th before they brought back a plastic kit for it in 2009/2010. Same with the Vanquisher.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Right, but they discontinued it for six or seven years during the last part of 3rd through 4th and early 5th before they brought back a plastic kit for it in 2009/2010. Same with the Vanquisher.

Yeah, and when they discontinued it--they also removed it from the Doctrines book.

The only LR variants in the Doctrines book was the LRBT and the Demolisher.

Aye, also I think thats when they dropped the Griffon. That book was rather sparse on Armor, however cool the infantry doctrines could be in theory.

Talking strictly in fluff reasons: the FW models tend to be more rare than the GW ones, so formations make no sense as there aren't enough. This does not include the likes of upgrade kits or armies that are FW exclusive.

 Vector Strike wrote:


I'd love to see FW and GW becoming only 1 thing, making all Imperial Armour stuff 'normal' supplements (like Shield of Baal is, for example).

You're in luck then - the lines between FW and GW (and Specialist Games for that matter) are becoming more and more blurred within the company.

WayneTheGame wrote:
I think it's because they still want to have FW seen as a different brand, for whatever reason. Also, it's likely because you can't buy FW models in a GW store (yet; I heard a rumor somewhere that they were working on consolidating it, at least for ordering), so it would be weird to show things and then say oh but you can't buy this in a store, have to go online and order it from the UK.

It does suck though, because some of the FW stuff are pretty awesome and really help armies, like for CSM the weapons batteries from FW really bring up their stock; if you could have taken a formation of them in Traitor's Hate...

I was chatting to the guy in my local GW and he says a big part of the problem is allowing people to order forge world in a GW store would also mean you'd be able to order it in every other retailer and that FW lacks the ability to MAKE that much stuff. he did say he wanted to discuss with his boss the possiability of of allowing a "ship to store" option for FW to allow people to get around shipping costs though

 Vaktathi wrote:
But yes, in general the mainline GW studio do their best to typically pretend FW doesn't exist and to make FW as inaccessible as possible. It's very odd. Nobody really has a clear reason as to why.

The one that makes the most sense to me is that "main GW' rules exist as nothing more than sales catalogs for the core range of plastic model kits. If it's mentioned in a codex you can buy a plastic model kit for it at your local Games™ Workshop™ Hobby™ Center™, and if you see it on the shelf at your local Games™ Workshop™ Hobby™ Center™ there are rules for using it. GW doesn't want FW products in their stores because of the customer service hell that would result from their target market (younger kids) getting FW kits because their parents don't know any better. Therefore FW products can't exist in the rules the Games™ Workshop™ Hobby™ Center™ sells.

(And of course this is no sacrifice since GW doesn't care about the quality of the rules or fluff they're publishing. After all, if you want to put FW models in your formations then just Forge™ A™ Narrative™ about it!)

BrianDavion wrote:
I was chatting to the guy in my local GW and he says a big part of the problem is allowing people to order forge world in a GW store would also mean you'd be able to order it in every other retailer and that FW lacks the ability to MAKE that much stuff. he did say he wanted to discuss with his boss the possiability of of allowing a "ship to store" option for FW to allow people to get around shipping costs though

This doesn't make any sense at all. If someone wants a FW model it doesn't matter if they order it in the store or at home, FW still has to produce the same exact model for them. The real "FW in stores" issue is with having stores keep an inventory of FW products on the shelf, which would require making a ton of extra stuff to distribute to all the stores, most of which wouldn't ever sell. Refusing to sell FW stuff in their stores is all about keeping the product line separate from their core lines of plastic model kits and badly-written rules.

In fairness, in addition to unique detachments and formations (the Vraks Unending Horde, the Corsair formations), forgeworld have started tagging some units where they can be used.

The Kytan, for example (the Lord Of Skulls On Legs), has in its experimental rules the note that it can be substituted for a Lord Of Skulls in any detachment which allows or requires the latter.

Which - for example - means that you can build a Traitor's Hate Trinity Of Blood featuring three of them, which at just under 1600 points is a nice, useful force analagous to a knight list (rather than the >2500 point Lord of Skulls one).


Other than that, there are a few mixed GW/Forgeworld formations in the Blood Oath campaign book (the Warhammer World exclusive one).

Speaking for KDK.
Fist of Khorne Formation includes the FW Model Kharybdis assault claw.
Brass Scorpion, Blood Slaughter, Chaos Decimator in the Hellforged Hunting Pack.
An'ggrath the Unbound in The Goreguard Formation.

Those are all GW Formations including FW models.

And here's me using FW formations in my battlehost and replacing Wraithknights with Skathach variants thanks to the Doom of Mymeara imperial armour book... I'm sure when more Imperial armour books come out or get re-released we will see more FW in basic formations and Decurion style formations

I'm willing to bet a shiny nickel that SM FW formations will be coming in the admech + SM vs tau book. Usable in Gladius and other detachments? No idea. But I'm sure we will get plenty of formations then.

Just have to wait for them to finish pumping out their Mechanicus and Tau vehicles so they can put everything in the book...

 SicSemperTyrannis wrote:
Speaking for KDK.
Fist of Khorne Formation includes the FW Model Kharybdis assault claw.
Brass Scorpion, Blood Slaughter, Chaos Decimator in the Hellforged Hunting Pack.
An'ggrath the Unbound in The Goreguard Formation.

Those are all GW Formations including FW models.

I'd hazard a guess that is the case because those all come from a Warhammer World exclusive supplement, and Warhammer World is the one place on Earth with a physical FW store.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 SicSemperTyrannis wrote:
Speaking for KDK.
Fist of Khorne Formation includes the FW Model Kharybdis assault claw.
Brass Scorpion, Blood Slaughter, Chaos Decimator in the Hellforged Hunting Pack.
An'ggrath the Unbound in The Goreguard Formation.

Those are all GW Formations including FW models.

I'd hazard a guess that is the case because those all come from a Warhammer World exclusive supplement, and Warhammer World is the one place on Earth with a physical FW store.

Hmmmmm you may be onto something

cvtuttle wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:


I'd love to see FW and GW becoming only 1 thing, making all Imperial Armour stuff 'normal' supplements (like Shield of Baal is, for example).

You're in luck then - the lines between FW and GW (and Specialist Games for that matter) are becoming more and more blurred within the company.

Yes, it's great to see this happening. Still, too slow