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Hi people. I was just wondering if someone knew why the armor of the DE kabalite armour was so weak compared to the armour of the gardians and aspect warriors of the eldar craftworld.

Can anyone fill me in ?

It's identical to guardian armor, isn't it?

Yep, 5+.

Yet, the incubi warsuits are 3+, even if they pretty much look the same than the kabalite armours.

Incubi Warsuits are functionally identical to - basically are - "heavy" aspect armour, and kabalites have something identical to guardian mesh armour.

The only one which is really weak is the Wychsuit, which is deliberate to allow "mobility" - in theory (although not in practice) this is covered off by the 4++ in combat - and Gnarlskin, which is for coven creations not wearing armour and gets covered by Feel No Pain.

Then there's Ghostplate Armour which is equivelant to standard Aspect Armour but comes with a 6++ as well.

Yeah, but what is the fluff reason for such weak armour compared to the ones of their cousins ? Is it because the one of the craftworlds are made of wraithbone ?

What they're saying is that the armor isn't weaker.

Guardians have a 5+, warriors have a 5+. (Both the rank-and-file troopers.)

Generic aspect armor is a 4+, specialist DE armor (ghostplate) is also a 4+.

Elite aspect armor is a 3+, and the elite DE aspect is also 3+.

If you wanted to argue that the DE characters have a lower armor value than their social status (as opposed to battlefield role) would equate to in CWE society, that might float. In that case, my argument would be this: if I'm a DE, protection takes a backseat to mobility. In fact, lack of protection can actually serve me: if my squad mate gets an arm blown off, I'm feeding off of his pain before I even get stuck in.

The only "problem unit" that doesn't have decent armour for DE are Trueborn. As they are Elites, they really should have Ghostplate armour to reflect their status.

But you have to remember that DE are more numerous than CWE and more power hungry. Therefore, armour is in shorter supply. Also CWE seek out conflict much less than DE, so it is natural that CWE would spend for resources on defense, while DE spend more resources on offense.
This unfortunately does not translate well in-game since CWE clearly have better offensive weapons than DE, but that is a consequence of the designers going overboard with Eldar, and not giving a $h!+ about DE.

But as Jimsolo says, the equivalents are there if you look for them.

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locarno24 wrote:


The only one which is really weak is the Wychsuit, which is deliberate to allow "mobility" - in theory (although not in practice) this is covered off by the 4++ in combat - and Gnarlskin, which is for coven creations not wearing armour and gets covered by Feel No Pain.

I always assumed that Wychsuits were so flimsy not to allow mobility, but because their gladiators.

They fight to entertain, not to be practical. Real life gladiators left their arms and legs completely exposed so the audience could get a clear view of some impressive looking bloody wounds.

And lookin' sexy while killing is also probably part of the point.

This discussion also brings up another weird difference for me. Reavers vs Windriders. Reavers only have a 5+, Windriders have a 3+. In the fluff, the Reavers are more pared down to increase their speed. In-game there is no speed bonus. WTF GW? Can Reavers & Windirders have a 4+ save and call it even?

I thought that CW Eldar were re-enforced with psychic power, and DE cannot do this.

 Galef wrote:
This discussion also brings up another weird difference for me. Reavers vs Windriders. Reavers only have a 5+, Windriders have a 3+. In the fluff, the Reavers are more pared down to increase their speed. In-game there is no speed bonus. WTF GW? Can Reavers & Windirders have a 4+ save and call it even?

back in the day, long long ago, a jet bike increased your save by 2. So Guardians on a jetbike became 3+, a wych on a jetbike became 4+. Then they decided reavers were too good, better bump them down to 5+ but CWE need to remain broken, so keep the 3+ for windriders.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Warzoner wrote:
Yeah, but what is the fluff reason for such weak armour compared to the ones of their cousins ? Is it because the one of the craftworlds are made of wraithbone ?

they arent weaker. they are basically the same. highly advanced materials that are extremely strong and lightweight. In the fluff both are made of soft materials that harden on impact.

Now DE actually want to get scraped up a bit, they are going to battle to experience battle, not to save their home. They also do not fear death, as they can most likely be reincarnated if they fall on the battlefield.

I thought that CW Eldar were re-enforced with psychic power, and DE cannot do this.
Fluff-wise, of course.

 Skinnereal wrote:
I thought that CW Eldar were re-enforced with psychic power, and DE cannot do this.
Fluff-wise, of course.

No such fluff. The CWE bikes are just harder/more covered/use a wraithbone outer shell similar to the Grav-tanks.
Reavers should either get a speed bonus, or have a 4+ armour

 Skinnereal wrote:
I thought that CW Eldar were re-enforced with psychic power, and DE cannot do this.
Fluff-wise, of course.

CWE things are grown organically. DE things are manufactured. The method is different but the end result is not. They are both highly advanced.

Two probable main reasons in the fluff:

1. Material - Wraithbone is basically a super-hax wonder-material that the Commorites can't manufacture, so they have to synthesise their own materials to do the same thing, which, while still significantly better than most other races' attempts, may not be quite up to the same standard.

2. Doctrine - the Dark Eldar want to stand and fight even less than the Craftworld Eldar do. This is likely reflected in their armour design - Incubi being notable exceptions, because standing and fighting is literally their reason to exist.

 Galef wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
I thought that CW Eldar were re-enforced with psychic power, and DE cannot do this.
Fluff-wise, of course.

No such fluff. The CWE bikes are just harder/more covered/use a wraithbone outer shell similar to the Grav-tanks.
Reavers should either get a speed bonus, or have a 4+ armour

When they're already moving 12" and turbo-boosting 36" or getting a 2d6" assault-phase hop I'm going to say 'probably not' to the speed bonus. 4+ armour for all Eldar jetbikes (Windrider, Reaver, and Skyweaver) makes more sense.

 Galef wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
I thought that CW Eldar were re-enforced with psychic power, and DE cannot do this.
Fluff-wise, of course.

No such fluff. The CWE bikes are just harder/more covered/use a wraithbone outer shell similar to the Grav-tanks.
Reavers should either get a speed bonus, or have a 4+ armour

I meant the troop armour, as mentioned in the OP.
Forgot to mention that bit...

 Skinnereal wrote:
I meant the troop armour, as mentioned in the OP.
Forgot to mention that bit...

The only psychically reinforced armour the CWE use is Rune armour worn by Seers. And Rune armour does not confer any sort of armour save (just a 4++).
Guardian mesh armour is a special material that conforms to the wearer and can "harden" on impact. Intuitive, but not psychic, but I think I get what you as saying

 AnomanderRake wrote:

When they're already moving 12" and turbo-boosting 36" or getting a 2d6" assault-phase hop I'm going to say 'probably not' to the speed bonus. 4+ armour for all Eldar jetbikes (Windrider, Reaver, and Skyweaver) makes more sense.

Honestly, Reavers were the first unit in 40k to have "turbo-boost", so they should have the fastest.
I'd like to see the "Eldar" jetbike section of the BRB removed and give ALL jetbikes given the 2D6 assault jump. Then give Reavers a special rule that allows them to Turbo 36", justifying their lack of armour for speed.
So now Deffchoptas, Screamers of Tzeentch, Windriders and any other Jetbikes can move 12", then Turbo 24" or Assualt 2D6". Jetbikes are afterall "Jet-pack" bikes

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Reavers still have greater maneuverability than Windriders (hence the Skilled Rider). But yeah, I wish they had 3+ armor.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Reavers still have greater maneuverability than Windriders (hence the Skilled Rider). But yeah, I wish they had 3+ armor.

That's prob what GW uses to justify their lack of armor, honestly. Auto-passing dangerous terrain is pretty nice, esp for keeping them in cover.