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Sight returned, banishing the grotesque feeling of helplessness. Such emotion was anathema, prickling at Argel Tal’s skin with a thousand insect legs. He managed to look through his dimmed visor, seeing a towering figure deep in a corona of agonising white light. Around the figure, cloaked and gold-armoured warriors hefted unique spears with practiced ease. Each one was the size of an Astartes, and no Astartes could fail to recognise them.

‘Custodes,’ he managed to speak through teeth gritted at the light’s intensity.

‘It’s…’ Xaphen stammered. ‘It’s the…’

‘I know who it is,’ Argel Tal exhaled the words through clenched teeth. And that’s when the voice hit him, hit them all, in a wave of invisible force.

+Kneel+ it whispered with the power of a hammer to the forehead. There was no resisting. Muscles acted instantly, no matter that many hearts fought not to obey. Argel Tal was one of them. This was not fealty, nor worship, nor service. This was slavery, and his instincts rebelled at the enforced devotion even as he obeyed it.

One hundred thousand Word Bearers kneeled in the dust of the perfect city, rendered prone by Imperial decree. A Legion was on its knees.




The Emperor clearly forced the Word Bearers to kneel here with his power. I thought I should post this here since it would be off topic in other forums.



"+LORGAR+

The voice came with a wall of pressure now, dense and all too tactile. It pounded into Argel Tal like a miasma of engine wash, heating his armour and throwing him to the ground. Around him, he could see his brothers sent sprawling, their armour skidding across the dust. Defiant in the cyclone of unseen energy, scrolls of scripture ripping from his armour, Lorgar raised his hand to point at his father.

'You are a god. Say the words and end the lie.'

The Emperor shook his head, not in defeat, but calm defiance.

'You are blind, my son. You cling to ancient perceptions, and endanger us all with them. Let this end, Lorgar. Let this end with you heeding my words.'

The psychic wind died with a peal of thunder. Lorgar stood where he was, trembling for reasons his warriors couldn't discern. Blood ran from one ear, running in a slow trail down his tattooed neck.

I am listening, father,' he said."



Here his voice sends them flying. And there is no such thing as slave coding with the Primarchs and Marines.

Loved that scene since it showed both how powerful he could be when he took the gloves off and how colossally bad he was with people.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Loved that scene since it showed both how powerful he could be when he took the gloves off and how colossally bad he was with people.

Its nothing too special. The Cacodominus mind controlled 1,300 systems and its death scream burned the minds of a billion Astropaths and distorted the signal of the Astrononican. I posted it to show some people on DakkaDakka who doubted it that it did happen.


http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh252/Lord_Cherubael/Feats/40kfeat-1.jpg

And this psyker could mind control planetary populations for jollies.



Kor’sarro had witnessed even warlike orks fall back in the face of such a barrage. He had known tyranid bio-organisms, bred for nothing but war, to falter against such a weight of firepower. He had seen only two types of foe continue forwards against such odds. On the third moon of Woebetide, whilst serving as a Scout many decades before, he had faced an Enslaver plague, and watched as ten thousand mind-slaved meat puppets, each formally a stoic Cadian shock trooper, were compelled by their alien masters to cross a minefield a hundred kilometres deep into the combined fire of the White Scars, Red Hunters and Celestial Lions Chapters. The other occasion had been on Delta Arbuthnot, when a potent, alpha-level psyker had forced an entire planetary population of ratling agri-serfs to rise up against the landowners in an orgy of bloodshed, even though they were armed with no more than shovels and their foes with automatic weapons.” -Hunt for Voldorius, p.157

One was a psyker on it's death trows freaking out, the other managed to push borderline slaves into rebellion. The emperor made a legion of space marines, including their primarch kneel against their will and it barely strained him. Considering that he's by far one of if not the strongest psyker in the setting, that was probably just a taste.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
One was a psyker on it's death trows freaking out, the other managed to push borderline slaves into rebellion. The emperor made a legion of space marines, including their primarch kneel against their will and it barely strained him. Considering that he's by far one of if not the strongest psyker in the setting, that was probably just a taste.

Yeah, but alpha psykers can mind control planets, and that was a planetary population of slaves he mind controlled just for jollies. He could have easily mind controlled the others, but chose not to. 100,00 Word Bearers is nothing special.


1,300 solar systems beats 100,00 Marines.

It did not strain the Emperor in anyway, shape or form.

Background would probably be a better forum for this thread, but on topic:
How do you know it didn't strain the Emperor?

Well for one pure logic. Alpha psyker can mind control 1300 systems. That's on scale way different to what Emperor did. It's also canon Emperor is THE most powerful psyker. Alpha psyker is a wimp compared to Emperor.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Background would probably be a better forum for this thread, but on topic:
How do you know it didn't strain the Emperor?

Because it did not hint at that, and the Emperor went about talking to Lorgar as though it were nothing after that.

Onething123456 wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
One was a psyker on it's death trows freaking out, the other managed to push borderline slaves into rebellion. The emperor made a legion of space marines, including their primarch kneel against their will and it barely strained him. Considering that he's by far one of if not the strongest psyker in the setting, that was probably just a taste.

Yeah, but alpha psykers can mind control planets, and that was a planetary population of slaves he mind controlled just for jollies. He could have easily mind controlled the others, but chose not to. 100,00 Word Bearers is nothing special.


1,300 solar systems beats 100,00 Marines.

It did not strain the Emperor in anyway, shape or form.

Sorry but 1,300 solar systems does not beats 100,000 marines because the passage you are quoting is from the Black Templar codex and is a threat that the Black Templars, not nearly 100,000 strong stopped. So the thing controlling 1,300 solar systems couldn't even control around 1,000 Space Marines (assuming it was a single BT crusade doing the stopping)

The Emperor without missing a beat or preparing made 100,000 Marines (many of which were powerful pyskers in their own right) plus one Primach kneel. GW does like to prove that he is the most powerful psyker in their universe.

 vonjankmon wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
One was a psyker on it's death trows freaking out, the other managed to push borderline slaves into rebellion. The emperor made a legion of space marines, including their primarch kneel against their will and it barely strained him. Considering that he's by far one of if not the strongest psyker in the setting, that was probably just a taste.

Yeah, but alpha psykers can mind control planets, and that was a planetary population of slaves he mind controlled just for jollies. He could have easily mind controlled the others, but chose not to. 100,00 Word Bearers is nothing special.


1,300 solar systems beats 100,00 Marines.

It did not strain the Emperor in anyway, shape or form.

Sorry but 1,300 solar systems does not beats 100,000 marines because the passage you are quoting is from the Black Templar codex and is a threat that the Black Templars, not nearly 100,000 strong stopped. So the thing controlling 1,300 solar systems couldn't even control around 1,000 Space Marines (assuming it was a single BT crusade doing the stopping)

The Emperor without missing a beat or preparing made 100,000 Marines (many of which were powerful pyskers in their own right) plus one Primach kneel. GW does like to prove that he is the most powerful psyker in their universe.

Its from the 5ed rulebook, and BTs could have had a lot of blanks with them to protect themselves. We have never gotten the full story.

So setting aside the discussion of the Emperor's powerlevel, what does this say about his personality, the founding of the Imperium, the fall to Chaos, and the inherent hypocrisy thereof?

Did the Emperor truly think he was making an empire for Man, when Man could do nothing to resist? Argel Tal's thoughts about slavery are on point, and truly paint the Imperium in a wretched light.

 vonjankmon wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
One was a psyker on it's death trows freaking out, the other managed to push borderline slaves into rebellion. The emperor made a legion of space marines, including their primarch kneel against their will and it barely strained him. Considering that he's by far one of if not the strongest psyker in the setting, that was probably just a taste.

Yeah, but alpha psykers can mind control planets, and that was a planetary population of slaves he mind controlled just for jollies. He could have easily mind controlled the others, but chose not to. 100,00 Word Bearers is nothing special.


1,300 solar systems beats 100,00 Marines.

It did not strain the Emperor in anyway, shape or form.

Sorry but 1,300 solar systems does not beats 100,000 marines because the passage you are quoting is from the Black Templar codex and is a threat that the Black Templars, not nearly 100,000 strong stopped. So the thing controlling 1,300 solar systems couldn't even control around 1,000 Space Marines (assuming it was a single BT crusade doing the stopping)

The Emperor without missing a beat or preparing made 100,000 Marines (many of which were powerful pyskers in their own right) plus one Primach kneel. GW does like to prove that he is the most powerful psyker in their universe.

We don't know how the Black Templars did that. The Cacodominus' death scream burned the minds of a billion Astropaths and distorted the signal of the Astronomican.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vonjankmon wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
One was a psyker on it's death trows freaking out, the other managed to push borderline slaves into rebellion. The emperor made a legion of space marines, including their primarch kneel against their will and it barely strained him. Considering that he's by far one of if not the strongest psyker in the setting, that was probably just a taste.

Yeah, but alpha psykers can mind control planets, and that was a planetary population of slaves he mind controlled just for jollies. He could have easily mind controlled the others, but chose not to. 100,00 Word Bearers is nothing special.


1,300 solar systems beats 100,00 Marines.

It did not strain the Emperor in anyway, shape or form.

Sorry but 1,300 solar systems does not beats 100,000 marines because the passage you are quoting is from the Black Templar codex and is a threat that the Black Templars, not nearly 100,000 strong stopped. So the thing controlling 1,300 solar systems couldn't even control around 1,000 Space Marines (assuming it was a single BT crusade doing the stopping)

The Emperor without missing a beat or preparing made 100,000 Marines (many of which were powerful pyskers in their own right) plus one Primach kneel. GW does like to prove that he is the most powerful psyker in their universe.

Less powerful psykers have better mind controlling feats than what the Emperor did. The Cacodominus' death scream burned the minds of a billion Astropaths and distorted the signal of the Astronomican.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So setting aside the discussion of the Emperor's powerlevel, what does this say about his personality, the founding of the Imperium, the fall to Chaos, and the inherent hypocrisy thereof?

Did the Emperor truly think he was making an empire for Man, when Man could do nothing to resist? Argel Tal's thoughts about slavery are on point, and truly paint the Imperium in a wretched light.

It paints him at the very least out of touch with humanity. He knowingly let Lorgar spread his religion then just randomly decided to stab him in the back wen he decided it was an inconvenience and was surprised when that backfired on him with Lorgar turning to chaos.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So setting aside the discussion of the Emperor's powerlevel, what does this say about his personality, the founding of the Imperium, the fall to Chaos, and the inherent hypocrisy thereof?

Did the Emperor truly think he was making an empire for Man, when Man could do nothing to resist? Argel Tal's thoughts about slavery are on point, and truly paint the Imperium in a wretched light.

Chaos were the bad guys. The Horus Heresy books make it clear the Emperor is the much better choice, as I learned after reading books such as Ruinstorm.

Onething123456 wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
Background would probably be a better forum for this thread, but on topic:
How do you know it didn't strain the Emperor?

Because it did not hint at that, and the Emperor went about talking to Lorgar as though it were nothing after that.

That's not really a good piece of evidence. A lot of GW writers are terrible writers, so it's just as likely that this was an afterthought and not included.

 Togusa wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
Background would probably be a better forum for this thread, but on topic:
How do you know it didn't strain the Emperor?

Because it did not hint at that, and the Emperor went about talking to Lorgar as though it were nothing after that.

That's not really a good piece of evidence. A lot of GW writers are terrible writers, so it's just as likely that this was an afterthought and not included.

There is nothing suggesting it.

Onething123456 wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
Background would probably be a better forum for this thread, but on topic:
How do you know it didn't strain the Emperor?

Because it did not hint at that, and the Emperor went about talking to Lorgar as though it were nothing after that.

That's not really a good piece of evidence. A lot of GW writers are terrible writers, so it's just as likely that this was an afterthought and not included.

There is nothing suggesting it.

There is nothing supporting it.

 IronBrand wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So setting aside the discussion of the Emperor's powerlevel, what does this say about his personality, the founding of the Imperium, the fall to Chaos, and the inherent hypocrisy thereof?

Did the Emperor truly think he was making an empire for Man, when Man could do nothing to resist? Argel Tal's thoughts about slavery are on point, and truly paint the Imperium in a wretched light.

It paints him at the very least out of touch with humanity. He knowingly let Lorgar spread his religion then just randomly decided to stab him in the back wen he decided it was an inconvenience and was surprised when that backfired on him with Lorgar turning to chaos.

Remember the Imperium embraces slavery, serfdom and warlord governorship's as expedient ways of retaining control of worlds and people. I haven't read any BL Emperor stuff but I hope it shows him as too far gone from the human condition to have any empathy, simply seeing everything as shades of control and coercion for the greater good (the greater good).

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 IronBrand wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So setting aside the discussion of the Emperor's powerlevel, what does this say about his personality, the founding of the Imperium, the fall to Chaos, and the inherent hypocrisy thereof?

Did the Emperor truly think he was making an empire for Man, when Man could do nothing to resist? Argel Tal's thoughts about slavery are on point, and truly paint the Imperium in a wretched light.

It paints him at the very least out of touch with humanity. He knowingly let Lorgar spread his religion then just randomly decided to stab him in the back wen he decided it was an inconvenience and was surprised when that backfired on him with Lorgar turning to chaos.

Remember the Imperium embraces slavery, serfdom and warlord governorship's as expedient ways of retaining control of worlds and people. I haven't read any BL Emperor stuff but I hope it shows him as too far gone from the human condition to have any empathy, simply seeing everything as shades of control and coercion for the greater good (the greater good).

That depends on parts of the Imperium, and what time it is.

 IronBrand wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So setting aside the discussion of the Emperor's powerlevel, what does this say about his personality, the founding of the Imperium, the fall to Chaos, and the inherent hypocrisy thereof?

Did the Emperor truly think he was making an empire for Man, when Man could do nothing to resist? Argel Tal's thoughts about slavery are on point, and truly paint the Imperium in a wretched light.

It paints him at the very least out of touch with humanity. He knowingly let Lorgar spread his religion then just randomly decided to stab him in the back wen he decided it was an inconvenience and was surprised when that backfired on him with Lorgar turning to chaos.

Or it went as he planned sparking marine on marine he wished for

Onething123456 wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
One was a psyker on it's death trows freaking out, the other managed to push borderline slaves into rebellion. The emperor made a legion of space marines, including their primarch kneel against their will and it barely strained him. Considering that he's by far one of if not the strongest psyker in the setting, that was probably just a taste.

Yeah, but alpha psykers can mind control planets, and that was a planetary population of slaves he mind controlled just for jollies. He could have easily mind controlled the others, but chose not to. 100,00 Word Bearers is nothing special.


1,300 solar systems beats 100,00 Marines.

It did not strain the Emperor in anyway, shape or form.

Sorry but 1,300 solar systems does not beats 100,000 marines because the passage you are quoting is from the Black Templar codex and is a threat that the Black Templars, not nearly 100,000 strong stopped. So the thing controlling 1,300 solar systems couldn't even control around 1,000 Space Marines (assuming it was a single BT crusade doing the stopping)

The Emperor without missing a beat or preparing made 100,000 Marines (many of which were powerful pyskers in their own right) plus one Primach kneel. GW does like to prove that he is the most powerful psyker in their universe.

We don't know how the Black Templars did that. The Cacodominus' death scream burned the minds of a billion Astropaths and distorted the signal of the Astronomican.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vonjankmon wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
One was a psyker on it's death trows freaking out, the other managed to push borderline slaves into rebellion. The emperor made a legion of space marines, including their primarch kneel against their will and it barely strained him. Considering that he's by far one of if not the strongest psyker in the setting, that was probably just a taste.

Yeah, but alpha psykers can mind control planets, and that was a planetary population of slaves he mind controlled just for jollies. He could have easily mind controlled the others, but chose not to. 100,00 Word Bearers is nothing special.


1,300 solar systems beats 100,00 Marines.

It did not strain the Emperor in anyway, shape or form.

Sorry but 1,300 solar systems does not beats 100,000 marines because the passage you are quoting is from the Black Templar codex and is a threat that the Black Templars, not nearly 100,000 strong stopped. So the thing controlling 1,300 solar systems couldn't even control around 1,000 Space Marines (assuming it was a single BT crusade doing the stopping)

The Emperor without missing a beat or preparing made 100,000 Marines (many of which were powerful pyskers in their own right) plus one Primach kneel. GW does like to prove that he is the most powerful psyker in their universe.

Less powerful psykers have better mind controlling feats than what the Emperor did. The Cacodominus' death scream burned the minds of a billion Astropaths and distorted the signal of the Astronomican.

I would challenge you to find where a Primarch was ever mind controlled in the Warhammer universe unless it was the Emperor doing it. We can ignore the 100,000 marines and focus on how Lorgar was also forced to kneel. As impressive as the Cacodominus was it was still playing in the shallow end of the power pool compared to the Emperor. And GW wants it that way, I honestly think it would be more interesting if that wasn't so because the Emperor is always written in a really odd fashion. He has a ridiculous level of psychic power but only seems to exercise it at some points in time. The reason that the Emperors Children were allowed to where the Aquila for instance, we've gotten a few snippets of that event in the HH novels and it doesn't really seem like something that should have been actually dangerous to the Emperor given some of the other stuff we have seen him do.

 vonjankmon wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:

 vonjankmon wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
One was a psyker on it's death trows freaking out, the other managed to push borderline slaves into rebellion. The emperor made a legion of space marines, including their primarch kneel against their will and it barely strained him. Considering that he's by far one of if not the strongest psyker in the setting, that was probably just a taste.

Yeah, but alpha psykers can mind control planets, and that was a planetary population of slaves he mind controlled just for jollies. He could have easily mind controlled the others, but chose not to. 100,00 Word Bearers is nothing special.


1,300 solar systems beats 100,00 Marines.

It did not strain the Emperor in anyway, shape or form.

Sorry but 1,300 solar systems does not beats 100,000 marines because the passage you are quoting is from the Black Templar codex and is a threat that the Black Templars, not nearly 100,000 strong stopped. So the thing controlling 1,300 solar systems couldn't even control around 1,000 Space Marines (assuming it was a single BT crusade doing the stopping)

The Emperor without missing a beat or preparing made 100,000 Marines (many of which were powerful pyskers in their own right) plus one Primach kneel. GW does like to prove that he is the most powerful psyker in their universe.

We don't know how the Black Templars did that. The Cacodominus' death scream burned the minds of a billion Astropaths and distorted the signal of the Astronomican.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vonjankmon wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
One was a psyker on it's death trows freaking out, the other managed to push borderline slaves into rebellion. The emperor made a legion of space marines, including their primarch kneel against their will and it barely strained him. Considering that he's by far one of if not the strongest psyker in the setting, that was probably just a taste.

Yeah, but alpha psykers can mind control planets, and that was a planetary population of slaves he mind controlled just for jollies. He could have easily mind controlled the others, but chose not to. 100,00 Word Bearers is nothing special.


1,300 solar systems beats 100,00 Marines.

It did not strain the Emperor in anyway, shape or form.

Sorry but 1,300 solar systems does not beats 100,000 marines because the passage you are quoting is from the Black Templar codex and is a threat that the Black Templars, not nearly 100,000 strong stopped. So the thing controlling 1,300 solar systems couldn't even control around 1,000 Space Marines (assuming it was a single BT crusade doing the stopping)

The Emperor without missing a beat or preparing made 100,000 Marines (many of which were powerful pyskers in their own right) plus one Primach kneel. GW does like to prove that he is the most powerful psyker in their universe.

Less powerful psykers have better mind controlling feats than what the Emperor did. The Cacodominus' death scream burned the minds of a billion Astropaths and distorted the signal of the Astronomican.

I would challenge you to find where a Primarch was ever mind controlled in the Warhammer universe unless it was the Emperor doing it. We can ignore the 100,000 marines and focus on how Lorgar was also forced to kneel. As impressive as the Cacodominus was it was still playing in the shallow end of the power pool compared to the Emperor. And GW wants it that way, I honestly think it would be more interesting if that wasn't so because the Emperor is always written in a really odd fashion. He has a ridiculous level of psychic power but only seems to exercise it at some points in time. The reason that the Emperors Children were allowed to where the Aquila for instance, we've gotten a few snippets of that event in the HH novels and it doesn't really seem like something that should have been actually dangerous to the Emperor given some of the other stuff we have seen him do.

I'm not saying the Cacodominus is stronger. The Emperor is clearly the strongest, but less powerful psykers have done better, such as mind controlling planets.

 vonjankmon wrote:
I honestly think it would be more interesting if that wasn't so because the Emperor is always written in a really odd fashion. He has a ridiculous level of psychic power but only seems to exercise it at some points in time. The reason that the Emperors Children were allowed to where the Aquila for instance, we've gotten a few snippets of that event in the HH novels and it doesn't really seem like something that should have been actually dangerous to the Emperor given some of the other stuff we have seen him do.

Which is why I'm on the camp that "Things are unraveling more or less as planned" reveal from first lord of the imperium audiobook was not false. If Emperor deliberately orchestrated heresy to begin lots of illogicalities like this makes sense. He didn't really NEED their help but giving them the honour was intended to show favoritism to further schism. Albeit he probably intended them to be the loyalists(as well as TS) with some loyalists having been originally intended as traitors.

Personally, I like to think that HH and Emperors "ascension" was a sort of karmic punishment for all the misery he has caused on the universe.

Same goes for humanity in general - that the reason why so many alien hate humans is because humans were powertripping asshats on the DAoT, and that the Men of Iron rebelled because they grew tired of being mankinds thugs and tried to hold humanity responsible for its crimes. Feeding further into the endless cycle of misery, older than mankind, and trapping all involved in it.

"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate.

Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

Oh, so deliciously grimdark, and always so very topical, and very fitting for the satirical nature of Warhammer.

Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:
Personally, I like to think that HH and Emperors "ascension" was a sort of karmic punishment for all the misery he has caused on the universe.

Same goes for humanity in general - that the reason why so many alien hate humans is because humans were powertripping asshats on the DAoT, and that the Men of Iron rebelled because they grew tired of being mankinds thugs and tried to hold humanity responsible for its crimes. Feeding further into the endless cycle of misery, older than mankind, and trapping all involved in it.

"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate.

Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

Oh, so deliciously grimdark, and always so very topical, and very fitting for the satirical nature of Warhammer.

And really? Humans were asshats to aliens in the DAOT? Thats not what the Horus Heresy books tell me.




I have read many Horus Heresy books, and the Emperor is not that bad of a guy.

Bad guy is relative but the Emperor is pretty terrible. He was a garbage father which is why even with out Horus falling to chaos a good chunk of his kids were gonna need to be purged. He was also very selective and heavy handed with how he carried out his will and in the long run pretty much wanted to murder anything that didn't fit his perfect picture of what humanity should be.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Bad guy is relative but the Emperor is pretty terrible. He was a garbage father which is why even with out Horus falling to chaos a good chunk of his kids were gonna need to be purged. He was also very selective and heavy handed with how he carried out his will and in the long run pretty much wanted to murder anything that didn't fit his perfect picture of what humanity should be.

I have seen next to none of that in the Horus Heresy books. I have heard a lot of things about him that turned out to be some kind of meme-ing.

Onething123456 wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Bad guy is relative but the Emperor is pretty terrible. He was a garbage father which is why even with out Horus falling to chaos a good chunk of his kids were gonna need to be purged. He was also very selective and heavy handed with how he carried out his will and in the long run pretty much wanted to murder anything that didn't fit his perfect picture of what humanity should be.

I have seen next to none of that in the Horus Heresy books. I have heard a lot of things about him that turned out to be some kind of meme-ing.

In no particular order

Lorgar fell because the Emperor went out of his way to embarrass and destroyed any faith or chance of him staying Loyal.

Angron was damaged goods from the beginning and should have been put down long before the heresy, not given an army. The Emperor letting all his friends died made him an easy one to flip.

Mortarian was a similar case, the Emperor robbed him of his moment and that never was rectified.

Horus probably would have been a lot harder to turn if the Emperor was capable of having a dam conversation with his favorite "son" about why he is abandoning the crusade and reassure him he's not gonna thunder warrior the Astartes at the end of the crusade.

Magnus- same deal as Horus, if he hadn't lied about how the universe fundamentally works he probably would have stayed loyal.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Bad guy is relative but the Emperor is pretty terrible. He was a garbage father which is why even with out Horus falling to chaos a good chunk of his kids were gonna need to be purged. He was also very selective and heavy handed with how he carried out his will and in the long run pretty much wanted to murder anything that didn't fit his perfect picture of what humanity should be.

I have seen next to none of that in the Horus Heresy books. I have heard a lot of things about him that turned out to be some kind of meme-ing.

In no particular order

Lorgar fell because the Emperor went out of his way to embarrass and destroyed any faith or chance of him staying Loyal.

Angron was damaged goods from the beginning and should have been put down long before the heresy, not given an army. The Emperor letting all his friends died made him an easy one to flip.

Mortarian was a similar case, the Emperor robbed him of his moment and that never was rectified.

Horus probably would have been a lot harder to turn if the Emperor was capable of having a dam conversation with his favorite "son" about why he is abandoning the crusade and reassure him he's not gonna thunder warrior the Astartes at the end of the crusade.

Magnus- same deal as Horus, if he hadn't lied about how the universe fundamentally works he probably would have stayed loyal.

Not the best father, I know that. But he is not evil. But to be fair he is arrogant and thinks he is right.

Again evil is a sliding scale. By modern standards the emperor is a war criminal and that's keeping it simple. In the context of the setting he was/is humanities best chance. By the standards of any time period, horrible father.