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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Sorry Gert, gonna have to disagree Heresy is a specialist game.

It has its own tab in the main game bit of the new Website, and has had waaaaay more releases in it short plastic life time than most specialist games.

Not on par with AoS or 40K I’ll grant you, but it is positioned as a core game overall.

"Specialist Game" isn't a label denoting that something is a secondary priority for GW. it's a label for games made by GW's Specialist Games studio, which are their b-studio. HH is SG's big game, and then there's all the smaller stuff, but it's not handled by the same crew (SG being essentially old FW but as they currently exist). the way the substudio handles things is different from the main studio

their B studio is AoS, it is rather their C studio

and yes they are doing things differently yet it is not the studio that decides on releases but the management

and we have had rumours that someone wants HH to be the 3rd big game next to 40k and AoS, as well as the question what 3 main games GW is doing to complete the 3 year cycle

HH should not be there, neither Lord of the Rings, while some have hoped it will be TOW (which is still a possibility)
yet having a year without big release is unlikely

 Gert wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Again, they don't have a summer release lined up for next year unless it's either HH or KT.

A - That you know of.
B - Heresy is a specialist game (yes it is) and doesn't follow the main game cycles.
C - When specialist games do get updates, they are redoes of the rulebooks with FAQs in them or compendiums of the various gangs, warbands, or teams added since the initial release. HH doesn't have that because 90% of the releases are updates to old kits which already have the rules in the books we have. Outside of named characters, it would consist of re-releasing every single rulebook exactly the same except for Solar Aux which would get a whopping two units added.

So yes very much huffing paint if you think HH is getting a redo next year.

A - let me rephrase, they don't have either core game system having a big release next year which leads to:
B - unless you want to convince me that LotR deserves the spot, this is as good as their 3rd main game, or the largest specialist if you want to nitpick.
C - they can alternatively reword, include faqs and change some rules

If it's huffing paint to consider their 3rd biggest game being on the same 3 year release cycle as the 2 biggest, then consider me huffing.

Extra evidence, they're farming out campaign books with characters. What did both 40k and sigmar do in the last year of their respective editions? Campaign books and characters.

Am I considering it as a dead certainty? Not at all, but is it possible? Absolutely.

Dudeface wrote:

 Gert wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Again, they don't have a summer release lined up for next year unless it's either HH or KT.

A - That you know of.
B - Heresy is a specialist game (yes it is) and doesn't follow the main game cycles.
C - When specialist games do get updates, they are redoes of the rulebooks with FAQs in them or compendiums of the various gangs, warbands, or teams added since the initial release. HH doesn't have that because 90% of the releases are updates to old kits which already have the rules in the books we have. Outside of named characters, it would consist of re-releasing every single rulebook exactly the same except for Solar Aux which would get a whopping two units added.

So yes very much huffing paint if you think HH is getting a redo next year.

A - let me rephrase, they don't have either core game system having a big release next year which leads to:
B - unless you want to convince me that LotR deserves the spot, this is as good as their 3rd main game, or the largest specialist if you want to nitpick.
C - they can alternatively reword, include faqs and change some rules

If it's huffing paint to consider their 3rd biggest game being on the same 3 year release cycle as the 2 biggest, then consider me huffing.

Extra evidence, they're farming out campaign books with characters. What did both 40k and sigmar do in the last year of their respective editions? Campaign books and characters.

Am I considering it as a dead certainty? Not at all, but is it possible? Absolutely.

HH is campaign books and characters: the game

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Could be Battle Fleet Gothic for all we know.

Man O'War? [fingers crossed]

 SgtEeveell wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Could be Battle Fleet Gothic for all we know.

Man O'War? [fingers crossed]

No, definitely Dreadfleet 2.0.

ccs wrote:

 SgtEeveell wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Could be Battle Fleet Gothic for all we know.

Man O'War? [fingers crossed]

No, definitely Dreadfleet 2.0.

I heard it was Gorkamorka, complete with Diggaz and Rebel Grots.

 morganfreeman wrote:
I call BS on a new edition of HH that fast. Especially as "clean-up", when that's something that could be done with FAQs or some such.

That said, if it does turn out to be true, then I'd purely be into heresy for the modelling perspective. HH not having the chase-the-dragon edition release churn is part of the big appeal, and if that goes out the window then so do I.

I'm with you on that. For all of the clunkiness of the HH books, it is great to only have a few places to look for rules and units. And to know that what you've built won't be invalidated in 6 months. We have to hope that GW knows that this is a big part of HH's appeal, and that introducing WH40k-style rules/codex churn would likely alienate a lot of people.

Y'all don't know gak...it's gonna be warmaster in 17.5mm scale

Racerguy180 wrote:
Y'all don't know gak...it's gonna be warmaster in 17.5mm scale

No love for a 32mm Dark Future?

Or a miniatures based "Oi! Dat's Me Leg!"

Dudeface wrote:

A - let me rephrase, they don't have either core game system having a big release next year which leads to:
B - unless you want to convince me that LotR deserves the spot, this is as good as their 3rd main game, or the largest specialist if you want to nitpick.
C - they can alternatively reword, include faqs and change some rules

If it's huffing paint to consider their 3rd biggest game being on the same 3 year release cycle as the 2 biggest, then consider me huffing.

A - It leads to nothing. You are making a massive assumption based on a rumour from Valrak who AFAIK is about 50/50 on these sorts of things.
B - The largest specialist is still a specialist. None of the side games follow the three year cycle in the same way as AoS or 40k. Every single one is also much much smaller in terms of game scale than HH, LI and TOW, with only MESBG coming close. A few gangs or warbands a year is all that is needed and these are all new and get compiled in a new compendium every so often. HH has had a grand total of two generic units added to one army since the rules all got released and everything else is characters, updates to older kits or filling out units that have yet to receive kits.
C - GW may waste time but redoing every book just to include FAQs isn't going to be on the cards. This isn't like HH1 where they had to compile every single unit released from Betrayal to Tempest for close to 6 armies. The rules are already there and nothing has really been added that needs to be put in a Liber book.

Extra evidence, they're farming out campaign books with characters. What did both 40k and sigmar do in the last year of their respective editions? Campaign books and characters.

This is a weird choice of words when three campaign books have come out in the space of three years. Compare that to Psychic Awakening or Broken Realms where it was 9 in a year and 6 in a year and your point don't exactly hold too much weight.
The books released for HH follow the same path as the Black Books of HH1 and are not even remotely similar to the 40k or AoS ones, and not just because you can use them to beat someone to death.

Am I considering it as a dead certainty? Not at all, but is it possible? Absolutely.

It's also possible that HH will be sent into the sun. Anything is possible and if we're going there then we might as well give up now.

Part 2 of Solar Auxilia herardly https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/06/13/solar-auxilia-the-heraldry-of-honour-part-2/

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Part 2 of Solar Auxilia herardly https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/06/13/solar-auxilia-the-heraldry-of-honour-part-2/

Some of these are a bit weird, and the whole concept is a bit odd when HH already has so much focus on the Legions. How does Fenris support Solar Auxilia cohorts and the Space Wolves, for example? It would be bled white as a low-population feral death world.

It also seems weird to go for Calibanite Jaegers and Hussars. I would have called the latter something more in keeping with Jaegers, like Reiters.

Would've loved to see more non-Astartes aligned examples.

Fenris still has a large population and the Kaerls aren't something new, this is just a HH version of them.

Also, the Legion Overseer from the Beta Garmon book allows you to take either Auxilia Sections or Militia Infantry in a Legion list ergo suggesting schemes that would fit with the Legions.

 BrookM wrote:
Would've loved to see more non-Astartes aligned examples.

They said it's in the works, but it might not be until another campaign book. They still have another batch of Legiones Auxilia to hit up.


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 Gert wrote:
Fenris still has a large population and the Kaerls aren't something new, this is just a HH version of them.

Also, the Legion Overseer from the Beta Garmon book allows you to take either Auxilia Sections or Militia Infantry in a Legion list ergo suggesting schemes that would fit with the Legions.

I mean the Overseer works, but so does the whole Legiones Auxilia bit.

 Haighus wrote:


It also seems weird to go for Calibanite Jaegers and Hussars. I would have called the latter something more in keeping with Jaegers, like Reiters.

Hussars are used in German armies too, light cavalry troops. Lots of countries used them, including the UK.

 SgtEeveell wrote:

 Haighus wrote:


It also seems weird to go for Calibanite Jaegers and Hussars. I would have called the latter something more in keeping with Jaegers, like Reiters.

Hussars are used in German armies too, light cavalry troops. Lots of countries used them, including the UK.

Yeah, its a common loanword (I think from Magyar initially). But it isn't stylistically the same as jaeger in the way a German cavalry term would be. I think reiter would be a better option, and even uhlan (Lithuanian origin) sounds stylistically more similar than hussar.

 Haighus wrote:
How does Fenris support Solar Auxilia cohorts and the Space Wolves, for example? It would be bled white as a low-population feral death world.

Easy: Asaheim. Fenris has one continent and it’s huge. It’s also full of mountains that are in turn full of tunnels and halls while the surface is covered in fast-growing¹ forests that feed some frankly ridiculous wildlife, such as enormous elk that make moose look like they aren’t trying. There’s plenty of room and food up there to support a population of a few million humans with technological support, more if you cram them in like a Hive World (the Fang alone is bigger than Hive Primus on Necromunda and that has an estimated population of about ten billion) but we’re pretty sure they don’t.

That population could easily support a regiment or two, and since it’s a Legion Homeworld the Imperial bureaucracy doesn’t get to say how many or when those regiments are founded.


¹ they grow stupid-fast during the summer when the sky burns but then go dormant and basically freeze solid for the other 21 months of the fenrisian year.
Remember that the entire ecology of Fenris is pretty certainly engineered by Golden Age science, for the benefit of the colonists.

 Gert wrote:
Fenris still has a large population and the Kaerls aren't something new, this is just a HH version of them.

Fenris has a large population? How big are we talking? Its a horrific death world.

There is a clear difference in population impact between Chapter serfs and PDF who will tend to suffer little attrition most of the time, and tithing 120,000 strong cohorts of a world's youth never to return.

Well article also mentions fief worlds (fiefdoms) so it can be assumed you don't necessarily have to be from Legion homeworld to be part of it.

The Fenrisian Kaerls share a home world with their patron Legion, the Space Wolves, but the pattern is also used by cohorts inducted from other VI Legion fief worlds, including those from Lucan. Veteran Kaerls are elevated to the ‘Aettguard’ and afforded the honour of guarding the Fang, the fortress of the Legion. Kaerls wear undersuits of dun brown and armour panels of blue-grey.

Automatically Appended Next Post:



And it is a crime if I don't post this.

Look
Baby salamanders aren't they cute

A green and orange scheme that goes together pretty well actually.

 BrookM wrote:
A green and orange scheme that goes together pretty well actually.

Teenage mutant ninja salamanders!

 Haighus wrote:
Fenris has a large population? How big are we talking? Its a horrific death world.

There is a clear difference in population impact between Chapter serfs and PDF who will tend to suffer little attrition most of the time, and tithing 120,000 strong cohorts of a world's youth never to return.

You're going off the assumption that the Fenrisian Auxilia are anywhere near that size. It does also make it very clear that they are recruited from the other worlds under the fief of the Wolves.

The Fenrisian Kaerls share a home world with their patron Legion, the Space Wolves, but the pattern is also used by cohorts inducted from other VI Legion fief worlds, including those from Lucan.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Unfortunately HH isn't getting GW's best and brightest assigned to its rules writing, so any new edition is at least as likely to get worse than better. From a marketing standpoint, it does make sense to release what is intended as a powerup for Auxilia and Mechanicum, but invalidating expensive hardcovers with something that might end up weaker is a big risk.

If GW's best and brightest are the ones who've been turning out 40K and AoS in recent years, I'd strongly dispute describing that state of affairs as "unfortunate". Keep them well clear, I rather like being able to select wargear.

That said, I won't be buying all those big hardcovers over again after a couple of years for the sake of a few tweaks that they could easily just stick in the Errata PDFs. The current ones look nice enough on my bookshelves to fulfil that role, and everyone I play with are comfortable with, ahem, alternative arrangements for rules procurement so I'll be setting sail if GW are planning to stick HH on a 3 year cycle.

 Gert wrote:

 Haighus wrote:
Fenris has a large population? How big are we talking? Its a horrific death world.

There is a clear difference in population impact between Chapter serfs and PDF who will tend to suffer little attrition most of the time, and tithing 120,000 strong cohorts of a world's youth never to return.

You're going off the assumption that the Fenrisian Auxilia are anywhere near that size. It does also make it very clear that they are recruited from the other worlds under the fief of the Wolves.

The Fenrisian Kaerls share a home world with their patron Legion, the Space Wolves, but the pattern is also used by cohorts inducted from other VI Legion fief worlds, including those from Lucan.

It makes it very clear that "the pattern" is recruited from other fief worlds. The setence suggests they aren't "Fenrisian" kaerls though, and would probably be Lucan kaerls etc. which doesn't change the basic point that Fenris itself has never seemed like a world that can support much recruitment.

120,000 is the standardised strength of Auxilia cohorts in the late Crusade. Earlier regiments were 5,300 strong, but these aren't referred to as cohorts. The Solar Auxilia is much more standardised than the rest of the Imperial Army or the later Imperial Guard, so it is reasonable to assume that kaerl cohorts conform to this.

I suppose they could be very uncommon compared to other, more populous worlds.

I'm absolutely loving that Calth High Guard Solar Auxilia colourway.

 YodhrinsForge wrote:

If GW's best and brightest are the ones who've been turning out 40K and AoS in recent years, I'd strongly dispute describing that state of affairs as "unfortunate". Keep them well clear, I rather like being able to select wargear.

I, uh, well...

Fair

Which is the well-managed GW game? I keep thinking there is one but I can't remember.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 YodhrinsForge wrote:

If GW's best and brightest are the ones who've been turning out 40K and AoS in recent years, I'd strongly dispute describing that state of affairs as "unfortunate". Keep them well clear, I rather like being able to select wargear.

I, uh, well...

Fair

Which is the well-managed GW game? I keep thinking there is one but I can't remember.

well the rules for Middle Earth seem to have been left reasonably well alone, even if the model range is somewhat dubious