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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/02 13:31:06
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Foxy Wildborne
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I've been wanting to do the all tank Rite of War for a while, here's some of my thoughts on how each Legion interacts with it and I'd appreciate others chiming in. I've bolded the ones I feel are best. LOYALIST Dark Angels: Vehicle specific boost (Ironwing: re-roll 1s vs enemy vehicles, Snap Shots at BS2). Have their own RoW for Preds as Troops, Kratos as Elites. 2 stars. White Scars: Base ability applies. The +1" speed ain't nothing special, but their massive boost to getting the first turn seems disproportionately relevant for vehicles. 3 stars. Space Woofs: +1 Ram Strength, whatever. 1 star. Imperial Fists: Base ability for +1 to hit with Auto and Bolt applies, it's something. 1 star. Blood Angels: +1 Ram Strength, whatever. 1 star. Iron Hands: It Will Not Die 6+, it's something. 1 star. Ultramarines: Base ability for +1 to hit if multiple units pile onto one target applies. Easy to pull off and stronk, 2.5 stars. Salamanders: It Will Not Die 6+, it's something. 1 star. Raven Guard: Fethall TRAITOR Emperor's Children: +1 to hit with Defensive weapons on reaction shots. So niche I'm not sure it was worth typing out. 1 star for effort. Iron Warriors: Base ability +1 Strength vs other vehicles and buildings applies. 1 star. Night Lords: Base ability to bully pinned, falling back or outnumbered units with a +1 to wound applies. Seems strong vs units when vehicles count as 10 models, 2.5 stars. World Eaters: Fethall Death Guard: Base ability to always count as stationary applies. Massive effective speed increase, allows Cruising speed and shooting everything if I read it right. There's also a RoW that should be hilarious with a tank heavy force that turns a lot of the board into dangerous terrain and your army ignores it. 3 stars. Thousand Sons: Fethall Sons of Horus: +3 hits for Rams, whatever. 1 star. Word Bearers: Fethall Alpha Legion: Base ability to always count as 2" further applies. Great ability always, but not particularly more relevent for tanks. 3 stars.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2023/01/02 17:58:05
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/02 14:18:03
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Been Around the Block
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If you allow for a RoW outside of Armoured Spearhead, you can get some pretty nice boosts for some other legions (and just run some tacticals in rhinos for troops to still get mostly tanks on the board):
Iron Warriors with Hammer of Olympia get to ingore shaken and stunned for predators, vindicators, land raiders. Pretty big boost for those tanks if you're inclined to run them. World Eaters can run predator squadrons as FA with Berserker Assault, freeing up some HS slots.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/02 14:18:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/02 14:46:38
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Foxy Wildborne
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Cheers .Yes I am okay running a different RoW as long as I can get mostly tanks on board. Any others I've missed? There's a lot to sift through and I did try to skim-read RoWs and Warlord traits for vehicle keywords but didn't come up with much. There are of course also personal preferences like lore and colour scheme that I'm trying to leave out of the conversation for now.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2023/01/02 14:50:50
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/02 14:51:22
Subject: Re:Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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Don't forget that the 8th Legion can give Night Vision to any unit (and squadrons are units) for 15 points. That can give you an advantage in turn 1-2 and effectively remove the Evade reaction from your opponents options (Night Vision ignores Shrouded, whether it's dark or not).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/02 15:04:42
Subject: Re:Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Fixture of Dakka
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An advantage to the Dark Angels Steel Fist RoW is that unlike Armoured Spearhead, your warlord doesn't have to be a tank and therefore you wont as easily give up Slay the Warlord. It kinda defeats the purpose of you wanting to do a whole tank army, but you have a Forge Lord as your warlord and he'd at least be a sensible non-tank addition, both in theme and in a practical sense.
Dark Angels also have dreadwing, which drops the strength of plasma, volkite, flamers and phosphex by 1. Sure it doesn't affect tank hunter specific weapons like melta and lascannons, but it helps neuter those plasma support/heavy squads and massed volkite units that can take the lighter tanks down through sheer weight of fire.
Probably not a game changer, but something to consider.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/02 16:43:43
Subject: Re:Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot
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I think you're sleeping on fists giving them 1 star. Predator autocannons, sicaran autocannons and kratos battle cannons (and the accelerator cannon on the superheavy) are all auto weapons. That hitting on a 2+ is pretty nice
Iron warriors are also decent too. Str10 lascannons and str9 autocannons in the numbers you have them in a spearhead will make a mockery of enemy vehicles and dreads. Also as stated by someone else if you take hammer of Olympia and max out tanks they're immune to stunned and shaken
Overall I'd just go with the legion you like. Heresy isn't a game where you should be picking "what's best" imo
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/01/02 16:46:47
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/02 17:47:03
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar
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Am I reading the ultra ability wrong? You don’t need to be close to the target, but close to your own wingman who’s shooting to get the bonus. So you could have a light/cheep unit next to you light up the target with a little bolter fire or something, and then the MBT unload hell. And do it from across the table as long as everyone has the range.
Also seems good for mechanized infantry. You can have the rhino spray a few rounds into the target, and the disembarked infantry follow up at +1.
Not saying Ultras would make the best tank-forward list, but it does seem like there is potential there.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/02 17:47:36
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/02 17:57:11
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Foxy Wildborne
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Nevelon wrote:Am I reading the ultra ability wrong? You don’t need to be close to the target, but close to your own wingman who’s shooting to get the bonus. So you could have a light/cheep unit next to you light up the target with a little bolter fire or something, and then the MBT unload hell. And do it from across the table as long as everyone has the range.
Also seems good for mechanized infantry. You can have the rhino spray a few rounds into the target, and the disembarked infantry follow up at +1.
Not saying Ultras would make the best tank-forward list, but it does seem like there is potential there.
Ah yes you're right, it kicks in when Ultramarine units within 6" of each other gang up on someone. That's a lot better. Could be +1 to hit with almost your entire force if played well.
I glossed over it because there's no way I'll do Ultras, but bumping up to 2.5 stars on power.
As a clarification, my power rankings go up to 5 stars but the best any legion scored is 3. Which is a good argument for just going for whichever looks coolest, but as I said, disregarding personal preference for now.
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The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/02 19:56:21
Subject: Re:Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Bobug wrote:I think you're sleeping on fists giving them 1 star. Predator autocannons, sicaran autocannons and kratos battle cannons (and the accelerator cannon on the superheavy) are all auto weapons. That hitting on a 2+ is pretty nice
I also feel like they're sleeping on Imperial Fists and Blood Angels being able to swap Heavy Flamers on Predators for Assault Cannons.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/02 19:59:23
Subject: Re:Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
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Platuan4th wrote:Bobug wrote:I think you're sleeping on fists giving them 1 star. Predator autocannons, sicaran autocannons and kratos battle cannons (and the accelerator cannon on the superheavy) are all auto weapons. That hitting on a 2+ is pretty nice
I also feel like they're sleeping on Imperial Fists and Blood Angels being able to swap Heavy Flamers on Predators for Assault Cannons.
Not just for Killing Power (which is nothing to be sniffed at), but for edging into Main Weapon territory, meaning the vehicle has more flexibility when it comes to Weapon Destroyed results. Normally you need to plump for Lascannons, which reduces overall flexibility for a vehicle if you’re looking for Weapon Destroyed Insurance.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/02 20:04:41
Subject: Re:Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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Assault Cannons are S6. They're Defensive Weapons.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/03 02:52:16
Subject: Re:Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Nasty Nob
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You're approaching this wrong. If you want to field an armoured force, then ask yourself (1) what colour do they look best in? and (2) do I like painting with that colour a lot? If you're not comfortable with more 'difficult' colours like yellow, red or white, then that limits your options a bit. Seriously - painting all those tanks is a big commitment, and there's nothing worse than committing to an army then realising that painting it is going to be a monumental chore. That's why I went for Sons of Horus and Ultras. Neither of those legions is particularly armour-focused, but I know I can get a good finish with their legion colours.
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"You know that saying 'Caesar's wife is above suspicion'? Well, I put an end to all that rubbish!" - Major Denis Bloodnok, late of the 3rd Disgusting Fusiliers |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/03 07:55:09
Subject: Re:Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Screamin' Stormboy
Somewhere in rural Georgia
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I think thematically Death Guard with our Plagueburst Crawlers or Iron Warriors fit the theme of heavy armor for a legion. I can't speak much about loyalists as I main Chaos and I would presume you could say the AM or Tau when it comes to heavy armor, but as far as Chaos I feel you're gonna want PBC or go Iron Warriors as an armored spearhead.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/03 08:49:03
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Hungry Ork Hunta Lying in Wait
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Iron Warriors vehicles can brawl super well vs other legions vehicles, as +1 str is an insane boost to a lot of our equipment point for point.
Str 8 rending autocannons is a serious threat for how cheap they are, chuck in sunder from another source and they become absolutely murderous to anything with an AV.
And with rending, its not impossible to give dreads a few wounds through as well, especially as you're wounding contemptors on 3's and Levi's on 4's.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/03 09:55:06
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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to date I've not played all that many games, but have used a tank twice (ok a humble predator so only a baby tank)
in one game it lasted two turns, the second it didn't survive the first
does "all tanks" even work?
I mean I can see it as a way to basically shut down half the enemy army (the anti infantry bit) as being basically pointless, but it comes over as like a Tiger list in Flames of War, it can work but by gork theres a very high chance it won't
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/03 18:08:25
Subject: Re:Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Foxy Wildborne
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Snord wrote:You're approaching this wrong. If you want to field an armoured force, then ask yourself (1) what colour do they look best in? and (2) do I like painting with that colour a lot? If you're not comfortable with more 'difficult' colours like yellow, red or white, then that limits your options a bit. Seriously - painting all those tanks is a big commitment, and there's nothing worse than committing to an army then realising that painting it is going to be a monumental chore. That's why I went for Sons of Horus and Ultras. Neither of those legions is particularly armour-focused, but I know I can get a good finish with their legion colours. I just didn't want to gum up the discussion with my personal preferences from the get go so it could be useful to someone else too. But here goes I main White Scars, and I'm looking to do one traitor legion alongside. The tank list would, optimally, overlap with one of these two legions. I like World Eaters and Death Guard a lot but it would be like painting the same army again just with the accent colour swapped out. Plus WE rules do zilch for tanks. Rules wise I really like Alpha Legion but not interested in painting flat blue tanks. I will probably end up going Death Guard but leaning a looot more into the green.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/03 18:15:52
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/03 18:15:44
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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With the Death Guard, you get the hated enemies of the White Scars so you can have that nice little narrative feeling.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/03 18:21:18
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Foxy Wildborne
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Gert wrote:With the Death Guard, you get the hated enemies of the White Scars so you can have that nice little narrative feeling.
I was not aware of this rivalry. Do WS hate DG because DG have way better mobility?
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The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/03 18:25:38
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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The WS were attacked by the DG at Prospero and the DG then proceeded to hunt the WS for the rest of the Heresy.
Mortarion was also one of the most outspoken opponents of the Librarius project whereas the Scars were one of the Legions that pioneered the idea.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/03 18:36:04
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought
Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes
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leopard wrote:to date I've not played all that many games, but have used a tank twice (ok a humble predator so only a baby tank)
in one game it lasted two turns, the second it didn't survive the first
does "all tanks" even work?
I mean I can see it as a way to basically shut down half the enemy army (the anti infantry bit) as being basically pointless, but it comes over as like a Tiger list in Flames of War, it can work but by gork theres a very high chance it won't
One tank is a target.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/03 20:48:32
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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VictorVonTzeentch wrote:leopard wrote:to date I've not played all that many games, but have used a tank twice (ok a humble predator so only a baby tank)
in one game it lasted two turns, the second it didn't survive the first
does "all tanks" even work?
I mean I can see it as a way to basically shut down half the enemy army (the anti infantry bit) as being basically pointless, but it comes over as like a Tiger list in Flames of War, it can work but by gork theres a very high chance it won't
One tank is a target.
and this one certainly was, have found it in other games one of anything is a liability, same here, one kitted out infantry squad and a few plain ones, guess who dies first.
predator is good in that its cheap enough to maybe run a few and not really care
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/04 09:48:05
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot
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leopard wrote:to date I've not played all that many games, but have used a tank twice (ok a humble predator so only a baby tank)
in one game it lasted two turns, the second it didn't survive the first
does "all tanks" even work?
I mean I can see it as a way to basically shut down half the enemy army (the anti infantry bit) as being basically pointless, but it comes over as like a Tiger list in Flames of War, it can work but by gork theres a very high chance it won't
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/04 09:48:27
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/04 09:54:21
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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while that is impressive, indeed hellishly impressive and seriously nicely done, I can't help but think the appropriate table size is a tennis court not a 6'x4'
guessing thats a list that enjoys the reserve rules simply to deploy
in no way shape or form envious (much)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/04 09:58:37
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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leopard wrote:while that is impressive, indeed hellishly impressive and seriously nicely done, I can't help but think the appropriate table size is a tennis court not a 6'x4'
guessing thats a list that enjoys the reserve rules simply to deploy
in no way shape or form envious (much)
Tennis court?
the tennis court comes out when we field the Auxilia / Militia and their artillery.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/04 10:31:05
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot
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leopard wrote:while that is impressive, indeed hellishly impressive and seriously nicely done, I can't help but think the appropriate table size is a tennis court not a 6'x4'
guessing thats a list that enjoys the reserve rules simply to deploy
in no way shape or form envious (much)
I must admit in search and destroy deployment it does struggle to fit on the table ?
Definitely for 8x4 or larger size tables. This is also at 3k. At 4k+ I think a larger table would be required.
I am intending to play a big game at some point with the entirety of my armoured collection including tacticals and breachers mounted in transports on a massive table. There'll be some.titans and knights too though so it'll be a big old game
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/04 12:27:23
Subject: Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Bobug wrote:leopard wrote:while that is impressive, indeed hellishly impressive and seriously nicely done, I can't help but think the appropriate table size is a tennis court not a 6'x4'
guessing thats a list that enjoys the reserve rules simply to deploy
in no way shape or form envious (much)
I must admit in search and destroy deployment it does struggle to fit on the table ?
Definitely for 8x4 or larger size tables. This is also at 3k. At 4k+ I think a larger table would be required.
I am intending to play a big game at some point with the entirety of my armoured collection including tacticals and breachers mounted in transports on a massive table. There'll be some.titans and knights too though so it'll be a big old game
big and seriously impressive, guy I know has a 16'x6' table he uses for larger games, does tend to break down into a few separate battles across a few stripes though with occasional fliers and longer shots from titans bouncing about - always looks amazing though
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/04 14:35:08
Subject: Re:Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot
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That sounds so sick ?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/01/04 15:16:15
Subject: Re:Best Legion for "oops all tanks"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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to date the only outing of my Shadowsword for my IG force in 40k saw an Eldar titan brought to a single wound in one shot.. nearly bagged the swine on that table
takes a lot of terrain to do it justice (which he actually has) but really its a bit too large for practical games, the central band has to be largely empty of anything with any height or you can't reach it.
it is wonderful though
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