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Automatically Appended Next Post:

No wolves on Fenris wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
I actually think the more appealing thing now is the warboss' +4 attacks for 2 turns, and the rerolls to hit strategems on power klaws and killsaws.

Meganobz also get 4+++ FNP on waaagh turn.

The -1 to wound on S6+ is just a bonus.

There's also an armor of contempt strat and a -1 to wound general waaagh strat that I think they would still have access to.

I'm just curious now about Ghaz waaagh rule being triggered twice.

The downside is if you take regular detachment, nobs got nerfed a bit. Not sure if that detachment gained much of anything at all, but a lot of removed datasheets and strats that it can't even use.

Probably going to be an easy meta for green tide and bully boys, until they nerfhammer.

Doesn’t this also mean two rounds of devastating wounds on MANZ in the Bully Boys detachment?

The devastating wounds was changed to give a 4+++ on the Waagh turn. Unless there is another source of devastating wounds i cant remember.

Doesn’t this also mean two rounds of devastating wounds on MANZ in the Bully Boys detachment?

Two rounds of waaagh could make dual killsaws more appealing....2 attacks base kind of sucks

But with a reroll to hit and +1 attack for two turns per game, not bad

I feel like 4+ FNP is more functionally useful than the devastating wounds generally speaking, since it ties into meganobz being more tanky and getting models brought back by the Big Mek in MA. If anything, the Warboss in MA should have given the devastating wounds ability during a WAAAGH! instead of getting 3 damage on a WAAAGH!, but overall I'm pretty happy with the Bully Boyz detachment and most of what we got. I know the Golden Bois are very salty with how well we got by with our codex release.

Is Ghaz still a bad idea in a unit of sloggers with those new rules?

Armor of contempt strat and 4+++ on waaagh turn for bodyguard. He's just slow. But I think it could survive with that mess of rules.

Bully Boyz does seem the most ideal for Ghaz since he can double dip on the WAAAGH! to get really where he needs to, and the good thing about him being infantry with the Meganobz means he can go through buildings. Will have to try it out to see if its viable or not.

Hmmm i think ghaz has a lot of room now, but still.. points...

I can defo see him shine in bully boys and defo picking him for them.

But green tide also looking good for him. Lethals is always good on mass attacks.

Ghaz is good imo. Lethals are a great combo with beastnagga boyz vs vehicles and monsters. You can bring down c'tan in one activation.

 Grimskul wrote:
I feel like 4+ FNP is more functionally useful than the devastating wounds generally speaking, since it ties into meganobz being more tanky and getting models brought back by the Big Mek in MA. If anything, the Warboss in MA should have given the devastating wounds ability during a WAAAGH! instead of getting 3 damage on a WAAAGH!, but overall I'm pretty happy with the Bully Boyz detachment and most of what we got. I know the Golden Bois are very salty with how well we got by with our codex release.

Where is it changed to them having 4+++? Thought they still had the “Krumpin Time” rule which is where they got devastating wounds. Can’t see anything on the balance dataslate either?

No wolves on Fenris wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
I feel like 4+ FNP is more functionally useful than the devastating wounds generally speaking, since it ties into meganobz being more tanky and getting models brought back by the Big Mek in MA. If anything, the Warboss in MA should have given the devastating wounds ability during a WAAAGH! instead of getting 3 damage on a WAAAGH!, but overall I'm pretty happy with the Bully Boyz detachment and most of what we got. I know the Golden Bois are very salty with how well we got by with our codex release.

Where is it changed to them having 4+++? Thought they still had the “Krumpin Time” rule which is where they got devastating wounds. Can’t see anything on the balance dataslate either?

on the newly shown leaked dataslates.

Warboss in Mega armor gets +1 damage on the waaagh turn making him more offensive, and Mega Nobz get 4+FNP instead of devastating wounds on the waaagh round, making them more defensively.

Which is great.

So, what do you guys think of the Killa Kan buffs?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Goonhammer review up:

https://www.goonhammer.com/codex-orks-10th-edition-the-goonhammer-review/

 Jidmah wrote:
So, what do you guys think of the Killa Kan buffs?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Goonhammer review up:

https://www.goonhammer.com/codex-orks-10th-edition-the-goonhammer-review/

From the article:

"As far as the rerolling 1s to save is concerned, on face value for the 5+/5++ on Boyz, the overall increase isn’t very big durability wise (1/18 success rate). However there are some interesting applications when you look at units that have a better save.

Like MANZ (Meganobz for those not in the know). A 2+ save, that rerolls 1s, oooooo boy, better hit them with some AP. But wait, you can’t have a unit of MANZ that is 10 or more…. why are we even considering this? Well there is an enhancement that enables this, which we will get into in the next section.

[...]

Now to touch upon what we briefly discussed in the detachment, Raucous Warcaller, makes it so while this model is leading a unit, they count as having 10 or more models for the detachment rule and stratagem use. So slap this on a Big Mek in mega armour or Warboss in mega armour, throw them in a unit of MANZ, and enjoy the absolute hilarity of a unit that’s functionally immune to anything without AP.."

Never thought of this, interesting

Probably will get patched, lol

But in general at least that enhancement makes it so that a non-boyz unit can benefit in general from at least part of the detachment rule...

Can a Boyz unit with a Wyrdboy use Da Jump out of Strategic reserves? Sounds pretty nice (and ugly) in combo with the Tide of Muscle strat for a +3 to charge on turn 3.

If anyone is interested, i have a PDF version of the codex. I can say the costs that the codex came with. i DONT know if they will make any changes.

According to the new codex, the Stompa is still 800 points.

Dont know if its against the rules, but ill just post a picture of the point costs here. If its illigal then i guess, remove it?

Anyway my take is, that some of this is weird. And seem old. Like, the kill rig is back to 220. Im not sure why. Nobz are also back to pre-nerf prices. So it seems only things that were directly changed in this codex, like squiggosaurs and Mozrog and such, had a changed price. The rest were not updated with the newest price changes.

Beardedragon wrote:
If anyone is interested, i have a PDF version of the codex. I can say the costs that the codex came with. i DONT know if they will make any changes.

According to the new codex, the Stompa is still 800 points.

Dont know if its against the rules, but ill just post a picture of the point costs here. If its illigal then i guess, remove it?

Anyway my take is, that some of this is weird. And seem old. Like, the kill rig is back to 220. Im not sure why. Nobz are also back to pre-nerf prices. So it seems only things that were directly changed in this codex, like squiggosaurs and Mozrog and such, had a changed price. The rest were not updated with the newest price changes.

I'm interested

The current way GW works is that those points are essential nonsense and only serve as a placeholder for people who don't use the internet. The real points will be released as a pdf on the launch day.

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
If anyone is interested, i have a PDF version of the codex. I can say the costs that the codex came with. i DONT know if they will make any changes.

According to the new codex, the Stompa is still 800 points.

Dont know if its against the rules, but ill just post a picture of the point costs here. If its illigal then i guess, remove it?

Anyway my take is, that some of this is weird. And seem old. Like, the kill rig is back to 220. Im not sure why. Nobz are also back to pre-nerf prices. So it seems only things that were directly changed in this codex, like squiggosaurs and Mozrog and such, had a changed price. The rest were not updated with the newest price changes.

I'm interested

The current way GW works is that those points are essential nonsense and only serve as a placeholder for people who don't use the internet. The real points will be released as a pdf on the launch day.

Put it in a picture above. So yea. The points are interesting for the Squiggosaur boss and Mozzie and really odd for other units.

Cant help but feeling that the Squighog boy brick of 8 models + squigboss is too expensive. There are certainly more models in the unit now, but you also dont get +1 to hit anymore. Its like 430 points with a squigboss for 8 models. + him.

So essentially i cant start making new lists before they put the new costs online.. bummer. Then having the codex from online is irrelevant. Unless i expect the older prices from the PDF to be relevant, except for things such as models that have been completely altered, like squigbosses and mozzie.

Beardedragon wrote:

Put it in a picture above. So yea. The points are interesting for the Squiggosaur boss and Mozzie and really odd for other units.

Cant help but feeling that the Squighog boy brick of 8 models + squigboss is too expensive. There are certainly more models in the unit now, but you also dont get +1 to hit anymore. Its like 430 points with a squigboss for 8 models. + him.

So essentially i cant start making new lists before they put the new costs online.. bummer. Then having the codex from online is irrelevant. Unless i expect the older prices from the PDF to be relevant, except for things such as models that have been completely altered, like squigbosses and mozzie.

The patterns has been that points don't really change much from the current Index when we get the final points I believe. I expected it to cost more than 430 to be honest. That package currently costs 475 but you definitely lost the +1 to hit and a couple wounds in the process. I feel like the 4 man makes more sense now, but it'll depend a lot on whether they keep the points nerfs from the last slate in the final value.

I have to say, I think I favor meganobz over nobz.

There are three stinky characters that can go well into meganobz.

The standard big mek for durability in wagon or trukk.

The mega boss with tellyporta.

Ghazghkull for ferocious durability and hitting power, but it would be slow and expensive.

That's two anvils and a hammer. I think it would make sense for most to run one brick with a big mek and one with a tellyporta.

Nobz at current points I think are less appealing and less flexible with the nerf, which sounds weird, but there is a lot to favor meganobz. Please correct me if I am overlooking something.

The -1 to incoming AP is rather filthy as is the 4+++ FNP on double waaagh, so I think a greater concentration would make them harder to ignore versus nobs which are a much softer target for the points.

I think GW overlooked internal balance between nobz and meganobz with the change, but we'll see where the points land. It seems to me that whatever is in the codex is a placeholder. I doubt they will reduce nobz points cost though until they see greater skew towards meganobz in tournaments, but we'll have to see how they do.

 TedNugent wrote:
I have to say, I think I favor meganobz over nobz.

There are three stinky characters that can go well into meganobz.

The standard big mek for durability in wagon or trukk.

The mega boss with tellyporta.

Ghazghkull for ferocious durability and hitting power, but it would be slow and expensive.

That's two anvils and a hammer. I think it would make sense for most to run one brick with a big mek and one with a tellyporta.

Nobz at current points I think are less appealing and less flexible with the nerf, which sounds weird, but there is a lot to favor meganobz. Please correct me if I am overlooking something.

The -1 to incoming AP is rather filthy as is the 4+++ FNP on double waaagh, so I think a greater concentration would make them harder to ignore versus nobs which are a much softer target for the points.

I think GW overlooked internal balance between nobz and meganobz with the change, but we'll see where the points land. It seems to me that whatever is in the codex is a placeholder. I doubt they will reduce nobz points cost though until they see greater skew towards meganobz in tournaments, but we'll have to see how they do.

I think that depends entirely on what you want them to achieve. Mega Nobz will never deal as much damage as Nobz currently do. If you want overwhelming power, Nobz is your way to go. If you want some power and great durbility, go Mega Nobz.

Nobz also arent super reliant on the Waaagh to do great damage, but Mega Nobz are, especially if you run Kill saws. While MANZ defenses went up, their attack actually went down due to the loss of devastating wounds.

Maybe the balance difference between MANZ and Nobz isnt that great in the bully boys detatchment but i still see uses for Nobz. Actually i think in a bully boys detatchment im currently thinking of 2 units of 10 Nobz and 2 units of 6 MANZ. and then something else of course.

But all in all it depends entirely on your detatchment and what you wanna do with them. and i guess their cost.

Beardedragon wrote:
If anyone is interested, i have a PDF version of the codex. I can say the costs that the codex came with. i DONT know if they will make any changes.

According to the new codex, the Stompa is still 800 points.

Dont know if its against the rules, but ill just post a picture of the point costs here. If its illigal then i guess, remove it?

Anyway my take is, that some of this is weird. And seem old. Like, the kill rig is back to 220. Im not sure why. Nobz are also back to pre-nerf prices. So it seems only things that were directly changed in this codex, like squiggosaurs and Mozrog and such, had a changed price. The rest were not updated with the newest price changes.

I' m interested This points are pointless

 Tomsug wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
If anyone is interested, i have a PDF version of the codex. I can say the costs that the codex came with. i DONT know if they will make any changes.

According to the new codex, the Stompa is still 800 points.

Dont know if its against the rules, but ill just post a picture of the point costs here. If its illigal then i guess, remove it?

Anyway my take is, that some of this is weird. And seem old. Like, the kill rig is back to 220. Im not sure why. Nobz are also back to pre-nerf prices. So it seems only things that were directly changed in this codex, like squiggosaurs and Mozrog and such, had a changed price. The rest were not updated with the newest price changes.

I' m interested This points are pointless

The points are literally from the start of the Edition so yea. they are kinda useless. Except for that they give a little insight in to mozrog and the beastboss on squig and i guess where we can expect them to land, price wise.

Beardedragon wrote:
I think that depends entirely on what you want them to achieve. Mega Nobz will never deal as much damage as Nobz currently do. If you want overwhelming power, Nobz is your way to go. If you want some power and great durbility, go Mega Nobz.

Nobz also arent super reliant on the Waaagh to do great damage, but Mega Nobz are, especially if you run Kill saws. While MANZ defenses went up, their attack actually went down due to the loss of devastating wounds.

Maybe the balance difference between MANZ and Nobz isnt that great in the bully boys detatchment but i still see uses for Nobz. Actually i think in a bully boys detatchment im currently thinking of 2 units of 10 Nobz and 2 units of 6 MANZ. and then something else of course.

But all in all it depends entirely on your detatchment and what you wanna do with them. and i guess their cost.

Thrakka seems like a must-take for Bully Boyz. He gaines the Warboss Trait, so as long as he is alive, you will be able to call a second Waaagh!, plus he will get the 4++ from his MANz unit to make any precision shenanigans a waste of time for your opponent and will benefit from any stratagems used on them.

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I think that depends entirely on what you want them to achieve. Mega Nobz will never deal as much damage as Nobz currently do. If you want overwhelming power, Nobz is your way to go. If you want some power and great durbility, go Mega Nobz.

Nobz also arent super reliant on the Waaagh to do great damage, but Mega Nobz are, especially if you run Kill saws. While MANZ defenses went up, their attack actually went down due to the loss of devastating wounds.

Maybe the balance difference between MANZ and Nobz isnt that great in the bully boys detatchment but i still see uses for Nobz. Actually i think in a bully boys detatchment im currently thinking of 2 units of 10 Nobz and 2 units of 6 MANZ. and then something else of course.

But all in all it depends entirely on your detatchment and what you wanna do with them. and i guess their cost.

Thrakka seems like a must-take for Bully Boyz. He gaines the Warboss Trait, so as long as he is alive, you will be able to call a second Waaagh!, plus he will get the 4++ from his MANz unit to make any precision shenanigans a waste of time for your opponent and will benefit from any stratagems used on them.

Completely true.

But Mega Nobz, outside of bully boys, arent really necessarily better than Nobz.

Say you dont play bully boys and get turn 2, in that instance, your FNP will probably never come in to play. At that point i guess having devastating wounds would have been better (the FNP is miles better in general tho). So outside of bully boys, on 50% of your battles the FNP probably wont come in to play because you went second. (This was more of a response to someone stating that MANZ out perform Nobz above).

In a Bully boyz detatchment id say there is room for both. But Mega Nobz REALLY shine in Bully Boyz, holy moly. I mean their damage is still mediocre but their defensive buffs are staggering. Even using a Big Mek in Mega Armor with KFF with Mega Nobz in a Dread Mob detatchment can make good sense. Or Mega Nobz with 10+ models enhancement on a character in the unit in greentide to reroll save rolls of 1 sounds good too (if its not a mistake that is, that will be corrected given that mega Nobz cant innately have 10+ models). It seems like most detatchments could afford taking 1 unit of Mega Nobz and it wouldnt be bad.

And yea id definitely take Ghaz in Bullyboys. Ghaz is a must take there i agree.

We are back boys!

Things look good but points dependent..
and meganobs look great and I don’t think the 1+ reroll and 2+ save is that bad.. mega nobs natively lack a invul to was always susceptible to any ap. They are also slow, melee and cost a bunch.. I mean theoretically a kff megaMek would make them the most annoying brick but that’s already the case.

gungo wrote:
We are back boys!

Things look good but points dependent..
and meganobs look great and I don’t think the 1+ reroll and 2+ save is that bad.. mega nobs natively lack a invul to was always susceptible to any ap. They are also slow, melee and cost a bunch.. I mean theoretically a kff megaMek would make them the most annoying brick but that’s already the case.

It's also work remembering that on top of high AP, neither mortal wounds nor devastating wounds give a damn about those re-rolls or the KFF. Quite a few players have started LoV in my group and judged KFF Mek/MANz units just get vaporize by them. On the other hand, they don't really need any help to tank insane amounts of attacks if someone doesn't have the right tools available to deal with them.

And let's not forget that MANz lose access to -1 to wound in that detachment, that one is Wartribe only.

 Jidmah wrote:

gungo wrote:
We are back boys!

Things look good but points dependent..
and meganobs look great and I don’t think the 1+ reroll and 2+ save is that bad.. mega nobs natively lack a invul to was always susceptible to any ap. They are also slow, melee and cost a bunch.. I mean theoretically a kff megaMek would make them the most annoying brick but that’s already the case.

It's also work remembering that on top of high AP, neither mortal wounds nor devastating wounds give a damn about those re-rolls or the KFF. Quite a few players have started LoV in my group and judged KFF Mek/MANz units just get vaporize by them. On the other hand, they don't really need any help to tank insane amounts of attacks if someone doesn't have the right tools available to deal with them.

And let's not forget that MANz lose access to -1 to wound in that detachment, that one is Wartribe only.

Well, Steve Pampreen at 8:30 already predicted incoming meganob nerf, weirdly enough he's more interested in Speed Freaks as the fallback. So I think there's probably something to this.

Bully Boyz is the obvious detachment, still has armor of contempt and potentially two turns of 4+ FNP.

Rerolling 1's just means it's potentially playable in Green Tide detachment whereas almost nothing else benefits.

My bigger concern is that we haven't seen the new points since what's in the book makes it look like they phoned it in, and it's going to be entirely dependent on where the points land.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojc33BeKjTs

I mean I think meganobs in bullyboys are competitive. But it won’t be the default competitive list greentide is by far the most busted competitive list.. sticky objectives AND 5++ all game that screams competitive list all day long. The main issue is it’s annoying to play in a timed format. But the shear shenanigans with turning off objective secured on other units. Bringing models back to override and claim objectives. Pretty much means by turn 3 your opponent can’t recover. I’m glad it’s an option especially narratively but it’s not something I want to play in a tournament.

 TedNugent wrote:
My bigger concern is that we haven't seen the new points since what's in the book makes it look like they phoned it in, and it's going to be entirely dependent on where the points land.

Why should you be concerned with ork points being publish exactly like every single other codex this edition?

Points aren't that important anyways. A great codex with terrible points will be fixed eventually, a terrible codex will remain terrible.

Like every other codex I don’t expect massive point changes especially as not a lot of datasheets changed much.. which is sad because the stompas main issue is points. Price it close to a knight castellan or valiant (525-530) and it will be decent. Heck make it 550-575 and it is playable. The stompa main issue is that it has a hard time moving on the table. Dread mob fixes some other issues but at 800 pts it’s non-playable.

gungo wrote:
Like every other codex I don’t expect massive point changes especially as not a lot of datasheets changed much.. which is sad because the stompas main issue is points. Price it close to a knight castellan or valiant (525-530) and it will be decent. Heck make it 550-575 and it is playable. The stompa main issue is that it has a hard time moving on the table. Dread mob fixes some other issues but at 800 pts it’s non-playable.

It's sad that the Stompa basically only exists as a meme unit that occasionally turns up to a tournament and does well.... Pretty much only because it's been given every buff it could possibly be given and people aren't expecting a Stompa.

Maybe this one will be the codex that lets the Stompa shine (it won't).

Quick non ork related question. Well i guess it is related to orks, but its also a rules question in general.

Do i HAVE to shoot all my guns when firing with a unit? This is in relation to Dread Mob. I dont think, on a gorkanaut for instance, that it would be beneficial to shoot all my big shootas and take hazardous tests on those lousy weapons. So maybe id prefer to only shoot the big guns.


But ive been under the impression that you HAVE to shoot all guns that arent fire once per game (like hunter killer missiles) if you decide to attack.

Also if i have a unit of of Killa Kanz, do i have to shoot with all models, or can i decide to shoot with 3 out of 6 of em?

Cant seem to really find a proper answer in the rules part for making attacks.