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New two faction set.
Quite like the look of the new minis (Particularly the guy with the Weeping Angels-style helmet), it's also interesting that they seem to be slowly moving away from Siocast for some reason.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/07/09 08:07:02
New two faction set.
Quite like the look of the new minis (Particularly the guy with the Weeping Angels-style helmet), it's also interesting that they seem to be slowly moving away from Siocast for some reason.
I've seen a lot of complaints with the quality of the Siocast kits on the Warcrow reddit. The lack of quality coupled with the insane cost per kit sadly killed any interest I had in this game (They are charging premium prices for a budget material). I had seen they previously announced using the plastic resin for their cavalry kits, but hadn't seen they were using it for other stuff now too. I do still like the look of most of their minis (including this new box set).
It is still just Resin, just because the casting is different doesn't change that.
The "budget" material for low cost models will always be HIPS as no matter what Resin will be more expensive with high numbers.
and they won't stop using Siocast now that they have bought the machines, just outsource the models that are less suited for it to Unicool
And going with chinese injection moulding comes with its own problems (that Unicool uses a proprietary material isn't one) so going from 100% in house manufactoring to 100% chinese made won't happen anyway.
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
kodos wrote: It is still just Resin, just because the casting is different doesn't change that.
The "budget" material for low cost models will always be HIPS as no matter what Resin will be more expensive with high numbers.
I love when I see someone on here trying to rewrite reality by sheer force of will.
One of my favourite threads from the past few years was the guy in 40k General who argued that there is no such thing as an "elite" unit because if a non-elite unit can be as valuable to an army as an elite unit can, then the elite unit was not elite.
Are you saying that HIPS is cheaper because if you need to make 100,000 copies of a model your HIPS mold will get you there, but you'll need to remake your resin mold 1000 times? lmao
I see, HIPS is the budget material to make cheap models
the problem is that it needs a higher upfront investment while the material itself is <1$ per kg so it is less save for small buisness who cannot estimate the sales numbers and therefore don't know of they make the money back or not
and a company making HIPS has a certain minimum of sprues made to even consider doing it which is usually something ~10k with the costs for the moulds being ~50-100k making it ~5-10$ per frame in casting costs (the material adding another 1000 to the total costs here)
some companies offer prototype runs, which are ~100 copies form polymere moulds
like formlabs offers the range of 100, 5000 or a 100.000 copy runs (so if you want 10k copies you have to buy 2x the 5k run) with the mould costs being 100, 3000 and 20000$
comparing that traditional resin casting, costs are more tricky because depending on the quality you want the silicone can cost from 10$ to a 1000$ per liter, and the same for resin (usually you settle for a middle as cheaper ones also mean higher failure rate)
the big difference here is that the moulds are going to last for ~50 copies and the cost per model is in the range of 20-50$
so if you want to make 10k copies of a model those are significant higher costs in total compared to HIPS yet significant cheaper if you only ever plan to sell 100.
But in addition, if the casting already costs you 20$ you cannot sell it for less
Siocast advertises to be between resin casting and HIPS with being optimised for 50-50.000 copies and in this range being 40% cheaper compared to traditional resin casting which would put it in the 16-30$ per model range
comparing tha to HIPS, if you plan to sell 1000 models, but have to buy 5k and throw 4k away, you are still be cheaper on cost per model than Siocast or resin casting
with the disadvantage that you outsource your production and have to take any problems with shipping from China into account.
(hence if you want full control of your product, higher cost per model are less of a problem)
so of course it depends on the volume one plans to sell, but any of the model companies which sell worldwide are in the size were HIPS is the budget option and anything else is chosen for different reason
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
Schmapdi wrote: I've seen a lot of complaints with the quality of the Siocast kits on the Warcrow reddit. The lack of quality coupled with the insane cost per kit sadly killed any interest I had in this game (They are charging premium prices for a budget material). I had seen they previously announced using the plastic resin for their cavalry kits, but hadn't seen they were using it for other stuff now too. I do still like the look of most of their minis (including this new box set).
I've bought every Northern Tribes and Hegemony model there is so far.
The Siocast models are generally pretty lousy. Some are bendy and even hot water treatment takes a few goes. Others have pieces that shatter real easily. Most also have those impossible to remove mold lines. Removing those sometimes feels like you're carving the model yourself. The fits are also generally poor. Now I've bought my 2 armies, I'm not going to get any more. The models remind me so much of Mantic's first set of Deadzone models. Once made, they can look ok, but what a nightmare.
The Unicool stuff (like Warg Riders, Black Angels and newer Infinity TAGs) are amazing. Half a dozen pieces per massive model. One sprue stub to remove (usually designed to be on a foot or connection tab where it is never seen). No mold lines. In a matter of minutes you can have a large model that would take 3 full sprues of GW HIP to put together with just as much detail - without having to mold line remove on 100's of pieces, not to mention locating them on a sprue.
My other gripe about Warcrow is the card quality. Some are top notch on par with a mtg card. Others are paper thin. Some even have little stubs at the top where they've been printed as a long joined string. And the colour quality never matches so they all look like they're from different sets.
Warcrow - a great game which CB are killing off with poor quality. A shame because metal Infinity models are top notch.
Currently most played: Silent Death, Mars Code Aurora, Battletech, Warcrow and Infinity.
Siocast advertises to be between resin casting and HIPS with being optimised for 50-50.000 copies and in this range being 40% cheaper compared to traditional resin casting which would put it in the 16-30$ per model range
Source for your numbers? This is a ~2 year old thread where an independent designer was quoted a per model cost of approximately $1.20 from a SioCast manufacturer in the UK.
But regardless of the maths shadowplay, resin and SioCast remain budget materials, by decree of reality. They are both materials a company is more likely to utilize when they have restraints on their budget. The materials have qualities that makes them less desirable than HIPS to the end user. It truly does not matter if you think you've cracked the code, because small companies still go for those materials first (as well as 3DP resin). Maybe that's because they checked in with Archon and it's a 14 month wait for time on the machines, or because they don't have the right contacts in China, or because they want to have their manufacturing in-house.... the reasons don't really matter, only the reality does.
I'm curious -- in your paradigm you say any other material than HIPS is chosen for other reasons. So... what are those reasons? Why do you think companies choose traditional resin/SioCast if HIPS is as budget-friendly and accessible as you would have it?
Schmapdi wrote: I've seen a lot of complaints with the quality of the Siocast kits on the Warcrow reddit. The lack of quality coupled with the insane cost per kit sadly killed any interest I had in this game (They are charging premium prices for a budget material). I had seen they previously announced using the plastic resin for their cavalry kits, but hadn't seen they were using it for other stuff now too. I do still like the look of most of their minis (including this new box set).
I've bought every Northern Tribes and Hegemony model there is so far.
The Siocast models are generally pretty lousy. Some are bendy and even hot water treatment takes a few goes. Others have pieces that shatter real easily. Most also have those impossible to remove mold lines. Removing those sometimes feels like you're carving the model yourself. The fits are also generally poor. Now I've bought my 2 armies, I'm not going to get any more. The models remind me so much of Mantic's first set of Deadzone models. Once made, they can look ok, but what a nightmare.
The Unicool stuff (like Warg Riders, Black Angels and newer Infinity TAGs) are amazing. Half a dozen pieces per massive model. One sprue stub to remove (usually designed to be on a foot or connection tab where it is never seen). No mold lines. In a matter of minutes you can have a large model that would take 3 full sprues of GW HIP to put together with just as much detail - without having to mold line remove on 100's of pieces, not to mention locating them on a sprue.
My other gripe about Warcrow is the card quality. Some are top notch on par with a mtg card. Others are paper thin. Some even have little stubs at the top where they've been printed as a long joined string. And the colour quality never matches so they all look like they're from different sets.
Warcrow - a great game which CB are killing off with poor quality. A shame because metal Infinity models are top notch.
Thank you for your review. CB is falling into the trap many other companies did by lowering the quality.
I cant justify any money or support such practices.
What they dont realise now is that a brand credibility is build for many years but can be destroyed in a few months. If I was confident before that I would get a good quality product and would not mind investing in it, now I will simply skip CB full range and games.
Haven't followed CB comms but if they claim Siocast is the best thing since sliced bread then yeah. Game over.
Schmapdi wrote: I've seen a lot of complaints with the quality of the Siocast kits on the Warcrow reddit. The lack of quality coupled with the insane cost per kit sadly killed any interest I had in this game (They are charging premium prices for a budget material). I had seen they previously announced using the plastic resin for their cavalry kits, but hadn't seen they were using it for other stuff now too. I do still like the look of most of their minis (including this new box set).
I've bought every Northern Tribes and Hegemony model there is so far.
The Siocast models are generally pretty lousy. Some are bendy and even hot water treatment takes a few goes. Others have pieces that shatter real easily. Most also have those impossible to remove mold lines. Removing those sometimes feels like you're carving the model yourself. The fits are also generally poor. Now I've bought my 2 armies, I'm not going to get any more. The models remind me so much of Mantic's first set of Deadzone models. Once made, they can look ok, but what a nightmare.
The Unicool stuff (like Warg Riders, Black Angels and newer Infinity TAGs) are amazing. Half a dozen pieces per massive model. One sprue stub to remove (usually designed to be on a foot or connection tab where it is never seen). No mold lines. In a matter of minutes you can have a large model that would take 3 full sprues of GW HIP to put together with just as much detail - without having to mold line remove on 100's of pieces, not to mention locating them on a sprue.
My other gripe about Warcrow is the card quality. Some are top notch on par with a mtg card. Others are paper thin. Some even have little stubs at the top where they've been printed as a long joined string. And the colour quality never matches so they all look like they're from different sets.
Warcrow - a great game which CB are killing off with poor quality. A shame because metal Infinity models are top notch.
Thanks for that review. It is such a shame. I bought the core book, which is amazing, but just cannot bring myself to buy the models after seeing all the issues others post. At least not at the price CB wants.
Siocast advertises to be between resin casting and HIPS with being optimised for 50-50.000 copies and in this range being 40% cheaper compared to traditional resin casting which would put it in the 16-30$ per model range
Source for your numbers?
siocast themselves, although I made the mistake as this should be "frame" and not model as of course the amount of models per casting depends on their size
a single siocast injection is limited to a 100g of material so very large models need more than 1 frame
But regardless of the maths shadowplay, resin and SioCast remain budget materials, by decree of reality. They are both materials a company is more likely to utilize when they have restraints on their budget.
and in this case metal models would be the ultra-budget option because this is the material chosen for the lowest numbers with the lowest inintial investment
(material costs: metal > resin > PVC > HIPS, upfront cost: HIPS > PVC > resin > metal)
I'm curious -- in your paradigm you say any other material than HIPS is chosen for other reasons. So... what are those reasons? Why do you think companies choose traditional resin/SioCast if HIPS is as budget-friendly and accessible as you would have it?
because Resin still gives the best details on models, specially for single (or few) part models
there is a reason Unicool advertises with "plastic-resin" in durability of plastic with the details of resin
the reason not using HIPS are: you want full control over your production and/or avoid troubles with shipping or tarrifs, you want high details on the models with low amount of parts (which can be very important depending on your target group), or you have a low volume of sales that doesn't justify having a warehouse to store stock for years
you can also look into how Warcradle build up their plastic stock over time for their different games which they should have never done in reality because it isn't a budget material a small company is using
look up Dreamforge Games which was a single person company that did plastic models, yet what killed the company was the warehouse costs to keep the amount of frames around he gets from a single casting run as they could only manufacture in bulk
PS: and Unicool is a variation of HIPS in that regard (injection moulded plastic), they just don't use PS but something they don't tell with a higher material cost and slightly different properties
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/07/10 13:11:17
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
