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So I've been a long time lurker, mostly posting my custom codexes on Warseer, but with all the trouble they've been having I figure it's time to post somewhere else that's more active. I've been working on three codexes semi-simultaneously as follows:

• Codex: Adepta Sororitas <- You are here
  
• Codex: Adeptus Ministorum
  
• Codex: Inquisition

Codex: Adepta Sororitas
This codex has been designed to be a full-featured 7th edition codex with a view towards GW's new weekly releases and how they would fit together with finally updating the Sisters of Battle. There are no all-new units, with a view towards keeping the codex to what a Sisters of Battle release might realistically contain, which I envision as a Battle Sisters box (Battle Sister Squad, Dominion Squad, Retributor Squad), a Celestian box (Celestian Squad, Sacristan Guard, a.k.a the command squad), Seraphim, various plastic characters, and a repackaged Immolator with parts to make a Repressor. Everything else would remain in metal with a view towards a second wave to update Sisters Repentia, the Exorcist (which may also built a Celestian themed Rhino, plus include the Oratorium) and add more plastic characters.

The codex is based on the latest digital release, but has been heavily modified, so here's a quick run down of the codex features:

• Faith: Acts of Faith and Shield of Faith are both improved, but are tied to a unit having Faith Points. Units start with these, and can gain extras from wargear, but they can be lost through a variety of means that your opponent will want to exploit. This hopefully gives a fun mechanic that means that the sisters can be very powerful for as long as their faith holds true, while your opponent must do what they can to undermine it, this gives a tension as you have to balance your finite powers against potentially losing them, or losing your Shield of Faith if you use them too generously.
  
• Immolator Battle Tanks: Given their limited heavy weapons the Immolator has been made a very flexible battle-tank with the same basic capabilities as a Razorback, but bolstered by the ability to swap Transport for Fast, as well squadrons of three being able to combine their fire into more powerful attacks. If you can read the entry without subconsciously getting your wallet out to by more Immolators, then either I've done something wrong, or there's something wrong with you
  
• Custom Detachment and Formations: The list contains a bunch of fluffy, interesting formations that can be composed into a Detachment similarly to the Space Marine Demi-Company, allowing an army of Sororitas to pack a pretty big punch. The formations mostly favour thematic groupings, but with some basic boosts.
  
• Tactical Objectives: Emphasising valuable objectives (relics), sacrifice and faith I'm hoping this captures the spirit of the list pretty closely.
  
• No Ministorum Units: Adeptus Ministorum Units (Confessors, Battle Conclaves and Penitent Engines) have been removed into their own codex (see above), but their detachments are designed to function together well.

Download
I'll be making this codex available as both a fully interactive iBook (requires iBooks for Mac or iOS) and a PDF. Unfortunately I discovered that when exporting a PDF from iBook Author the clickable links to wargear, rules etc. don't work, so you'll need to use the search feature of your PDF reader to navigate quickly, sorry!

• Version 1.2 [iBook | PDF]

Am looking through it now, will comment as I read.

-Like the detachment wide special rules
-Like the new Celestein, going into ongoing reserve was a good plan. Now a fan of Str 6. it just seems a little off considering her stature and size. Str 5 like she used to be was nice, perhaps grant her Shred (Chaos) to sure her up?
-Palantine is useless as a Chapter Champion equivilent. Ws 6 is fine and dandy, but I3??? Nah nah nah, she needs I4 at least for her to be useful.
-Same with Celestain, if you want them in combat they deserve I4. It's ok to have warriors that train in combat all their lives to be I4.
-Like Repentia special rules.
-Immolators with Apoc blast is a no-no. It could instantly wipe a Guard Blob off the table, it just don't like that much fire power being available for 165pts. I'd much prefer you made it a Str 6 AP 3 torrent flamer, they have aready proven useful and balanced in todays games.
-Holy Trinity has no distinctly Multi-Melta in it. Perhaps rending to give it a little AP2, but not to much?
-Inferno Bolts shares a name with Thousand Sons inferno bolts.
-Vow of reclimation promotes letting the Palantine tank for the entire unit. Not unbalanced because she is T3, but bad game design all the same.
-Spirit of the Matry is to powerful. Sisters are balance arounnd being worse then marines, that's why they're cheaper. 3+ FnP whenever they need it is too much. Make it a 5+ for more then 5, 4+ for 5 or less.
-Massively, massively against 5+ invul for shield of faith. It's a miracle, not a force shield. A 6+ felt right, you never relied upon it but i was nice when it worked. A 5+ feels like a Daemon, or a Harlequin. Can't stress enough that a 5+ invul shouldn't be here. The models don't pay for it and the fluff doesn't justify it.
-Like all the rules that go away when the army isn't faithful.

Good book, it captures the essence of the religious miracles sisters are. I think it jumps the gun a little bit in places, you should remember that at no point should a Sister be better at everything then a Marine for less points, that just isn't their identity.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
-Palantine is useless as a Chapter Champion equivilent. Ws 6 is fine and dandy, but I3??? Nah nah nah, she needs I4 at least for her to be useful.
-Same with Celestain, if you want them in combat they deserve I4. It's ok to have warriors that train in combat all their lives to be I4.

I'll increase the Palatine and Sacristan to Initiative 4, but I'm not sure about doing it for all Celestians since they're still intended as a high flexibility unit, plus they have Hand of the Emperor to improve their Strength and Initiative for a round or two.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
-Immolators with Apoc blast is a no-no. It could instantly wipe a Guard Blob off the table, it just don't like that much fire power being available for 165pts. I'd much prefer you made it a Str 6 AP 3 torrent flamer, they have aready proven useful and balanced in todays games.
-Holy Trinity has no distinctly Multi-Melta in it. Perhaps rending to give it a little AP2, but not to much?

These seem reasonable, I always underestimate how large the apoc blast actually is until I remember to go find it!

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Vow of reclimation promotes letting the Palantine tank for the entire unit. Not unbalanced because she is T3, but bad game design all the same.

I think this should be offset by her need to issue and accept challenges? An enemy can either put something in a challenge with her that can overcome her FnP entirely (anything Strength 6 and up), or throw in something to distract her while they crush the rest of the unit. I've clarified the rule a little anyway since Eternal Warrior is redundant (Palatine only has one Wound anyway) and she should only get the bonus if her unit is Faithful, it'll be in the next update.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
-Spirit of the Matry is to powerful. Sisters are balance arounnd being worse then marines, that's why they're cheaper. 3+ FnP whenever they need it is too much. Make it a 5+ for more then 5, 4+ for 5 or less.
-Massively, massively against 5+ invul for shield of faith. It's a miracle, not a force shield. A 6+ felt right, you never relied upon it but i was nice when it worked. A 5+ feels like a Daemon, or a Harlequin. Can't stress enough that a 5+ invul shouldn't be here. The models don't pay for it and the fluff doesn't justify it.
-Like all the rules that go away when the army isn't faithful.

These seem pretty much related. I think the important thing to note is that Spirit of the Martyr is limited by a bunch of factors:
• Low toughness of Sisters is possibly the biggest one, Strength 6+ just flat out ignores it.
• Only lasts for a single phase at a time.
• Must be activated at the start of the phase, so in the enemy Shooting phase this means they may be able to choose to shoot at something else instead, causing the power to be wasted completely.
• Requires a Faith Point, which is important; even if you put together a unit with 5 Faith Points that's at most five enemy Shooting phases, or half that in Assault phases, plus you have no Shield of Faith at the end of it.
• The full 3+ requires either less than 5 models, so not the biggest unit, otherwise you need to stack it with an Hospitaller or the Hospitaller banner at extra cost, the latter of which is potentially a large liability if the enemy can take it out as it can wipe out Faith points for a large chunk of your army.

Related to this is the Shield of Faith; I made it stronger because it can be lost now. For many units which only have two Faith Points (due to a Simulacrum, which is also a potential liability) that means one power + possibly full game 5++, or two powers and lose the 5++. You can also lose Faith Points by failing or refusing challenges and failing Morale checks, which an enemy could exploit. So it's a balancing act between keeping the 5++ and using the powers, which can include trading 5++ for a FnP.

I dunno, you may still be right about the FnP save being too much at the less than 5 mark (especially for units like the Sacristan Guard which can hoard Faith Points relatively easily), I just wanted to clarify all the stuff I've considered in the design. I'll definitely keep thinking about the FnP effect, and I may reduce it like you suggest, since an Hospitaller or Hospitaller banner can still give the 3+ if you're willing to invest the points/take the risk.

Regarding cost, I don't think the Sisters are beating Space Marines for less, though there may be some units that are undercosted. At the Battle Sister level though she's only 2 points cheaper with no blanket access to grenades (have to pay extra for those, and only for the Superior), plus a much worse stat-line that makes her terrible in close combat. Add to that the lack of And They Shall Know No Fear, which is very handy for getting away from combats you don't want to be in without any real consequences as for sisters fleeing will lose a Faith Point, even if you choose to do it due to a pass or fail effect, plus you can still be run down, and aren't immune to Fear. Space Marines also have Chapter Tactics included in their cost, some of which are a boost for most units.
Of course this is compared against their having Acts of Faith and Shield of Faith, but they have to pay to 10 points if they want to be able to use both in a single game (which closes the points gap somewhat) and even so it's still a trade off between using powers and having 5++. In play testing this seems to work well, meaning I can get a good first turn or two, then things get harder as I lose access to powers and possibly Shield of Faith, or I can try to hoard points to pull it around later but that's even more difficult. Battle Sisters generating points on objectives is handy, but on average they'll only get two if they can camp on the objective all game, and in that time they're either wasting the extra points (not seeing enough action to actually use them) or they really do need the boost to stand a chance of lasting that long at all.

So yeah, it's a tricky thing to balance, but comparing Battle Sisters to marines I think they're pretty balanced actually, even if they can have the edge either early on or by hoarding Faith Points. Other units might need more tweaks, Sacristan Guard specifically I think.

To conclude, I'm not sure about reducing the 5++; I think that the risk of losing it balances it pretty well, and it serves as a balancing factor to Acts of Faith since every act brings you closer to losing the shield of faith; if it was only 6++ you wouldn't care. It also only takes effect against AP3 or better, which might make it stronger against marine killer armies with a lot of AP3 or better attacks, but even so it's still only a 1/3rd reduction. Also, their low Toughness makes them more vulnerable than marines to things like hot-shot las weapons, D-scythes and the like (lower Strength lower AP weapons), so they mainly get the benefit against higher strength, low AP weapons that should really be used more against their tanks anyway. Fluff-wise I'd liken it more to a combination of unusual luck and/or a Death Cultist's Uncanny Reflexes save, except that it can be lost.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Good book, it captures the essence of the religious miracles sisters are.

Thanks for the detailed feedback, I'll keep it all in mind for the next update (and have already incorporated a number of tweaks).

So I've updated the list to a v1.1 with various updates mostly as I described them already, but to summarise them again:

• Celestian Superior now has 2 Attacks, and is available as a 10 point upgrade for all units except the Sacristans and Sisters Repentia as a better challenge fighter, but also grants the Hand of the Emperor Act of Faith to the unit (Strength/Initiative 5). Seraphim will probably get the most benefit, particularly those with Praesidium Protectiva + Chainsword/Blessed Weapon, also useful for Hit & Run, but other units can still use it to suck a bit less in combat.
  
• Battle Sisters and Retributors have Frag & Krak grenades as standard again, since they're only situationally beneficial anyway. Fixing combat such that everyone having assault grenades isn't as issue, is not really a goal of my codex anyway
  
• Immolator Fire Storm is S6 AP3 template for flamers (no Torrent), Holy Trinity has Rending instead of Pinning.
  
• Dialogus and Hospitaller in the Sacristan Guard now replace Blessed Weapon, Dialogus is now free (since you're really choosing between a command-oriented squad or capitalising on their Blessed Weapons). All Sacristan Guard models are Initiative 4, Palatine has Hand of the Emperor (not Hand of the Emperor doesn't increase her to Strength 7, as it applies after bonuses).
  
• Sisters Repentia can now take up to 20 models, and gain Rampage when reduced to 10 models or less; they're an eye-watering 300 points for 20 but it makes them a lot easier to keep alive until they can gain Shield of Faith, and if they're 10 or less by that point they'll also churn out a hell of a lot of attacks when they do get to strike.
  
• Faith Changes:
  
  
  • Simulacrum Imperialis is now free, since you're really supposed to have one unless you're building a small unit with max special weapons.
    
  • Penalty for all banner types is D6 roll, 1 or 2 loses one Faith Point, 6 gains one (representing martyrdom/rage etc.)
    
  • Spirit of the Martyr now only gives Feel No Pain (4+) at five models or less, to get 3+ it needs to be stacked with an Hospitaller (Sacristan Guard only) or the Hospitaller banner.
    
  • Clarified that Hand of the Emperor applies after bonuses, but before penalties (i.e- it doesn't let Unwieldy weapons strike sooner).
    
  • Divine Guidance improves Ballistic Skill including Snap Shots. Combined with Mutual Support (Sisterhood of the Faith) this can allow Retributors to fire Overwatch at up to Ballistic Skill 3.
    
  • The Passion now modifies saves rather than rolls, but does not affect the AP value required to negate armour.
    
  • Holy Icon on vehicles now allows the Light of the Emperor Act of Faith to be used for free even if a unit is still Faithful, giving it more utility for the points, and giving more incentive to use that act.
    
  • Some items that can become Inert are cheaper, most importantly Blessed Weapons.
  
  
• Convent Warhost: Tactical Withdrawal doesn't cost a Faith Point. In place of Preferred Enemy I'm giving the list the same free transports that a Gladius Strike Force gets, requiring two Sisterhoods of the Faith to gain this.
  
• Some formations now have required components at no additional cost, mostly sacred vows.
  
• Flight of Angels now has the Angelic Visage effect; friendly units within 6" are Faithful until the end of the turn when this formation arrives, this can be combined with Faith Point spending in the first two or three turns (losing Faithful) with the expectation of regaining it for a turn by having the formation arrive somewhere central, or moving where they are needed once they do. This actually makes their regular arrival speed a potential advantage compared to similar formations (Terminators) that allow predictable, early arrivals.
  
• Sisterhood of Faith and Sanctifier Strike Force have the same Mutual Support rule for simplicity. Sanctifier's Surgical Strike rule now allows a turn 2 arrival with Acute Senses, or arrival on turn 3 or 4 choosing table edge. All units now arrive at the same point rather than being split in half.
  
• Tidied up Purifier Squadron as A.T. suggested. Of course, Purge can't actually apply to Overwatch unless an enemy unit somehow gets to charge (and be have Overwatch fired against it) twice in one phase, but allowing a squad's vehicle to fire Overwatch with it is pretty nifty, especially for the Heavy Flamer Immolator.
  
• Saint Celestine's Ardent Blade is reduced to +2 Strength, she's also a touch cheaper.

Also, just a reminder, but this list is intended for use alongside Codex: Adeptus Ministorum to represent a full Ecclesiarchy Force.

This is visually very impressive and took a lot of work. I am impressed and you deserve praise for that. However I just finished up work on my own Adepta Sororitas codex and I have pretty strong feelings on how they should be so I don't think I would be of much help here.

 Celtic Strike wrote:
This is visually very impressive and took a lot of work. I am impressed and you deserve praise for that. However I just finished up work on my own Adepta Sororitas codex and I have pretty strong feelings on how they should be so I don't think I would be of much help here.

I'd still love to hear a brief summary of what your vision of them entails, I'm always interested by alternate Faith systems especially. While my latest faith mechanic is inspired by the current digital release I've been through a bunch of different systems including pooled points like Codex: Witch Hunters (always seem to end up with points being spent on only a few units), tried having powers be upgrades (incredibly boring) or more like power from pain (certain actions bolster faith to unlock powers) and so-on. Half of the battle is getting a system that's characterful, easy to play, and which interacts well with the rest of the list, this is my favourite so far as I feel like there are no obviously useless upgrades and that everything has a place in a list; the current digital release faith system is nice and easy, it's just a shame there's only one power per unit and many powers are too weak to ever use (plus random chance to fail for no reason), which is what I've tried to remedy (a range of powers for different situations, hopefully reasonably balanced against each other, completely predictable but finite and possible to lose them/trade offs to make).

With this list I also tried to reign in my usual tendency to keep uncontrollably tinkering and adding new stuff, as that's usually how I end up losing all focus and ruining my list, I also wanted to see if I can envision how the army would actually be released in terms of units, which is why I separated out the ministorum stuff as they need new units more than Sisters do, I might even send a copy to GW on the off chance they're still interested in my favourite army.

There's a great codex here (Warseer) that takes almost the opposite approach with tons of new units, radical alterations etc. but it's also really well produced (mimicking the style of a printed codex) with lots of well thought out rules. That's part of the fun; I've gained little bits of inspiration from various other efforts, so even if it's not strict feedback on my list it's still interesting to hear what other ideas people have had!

I'm all for the idea of losing benefits if you become unfaithful, it's remarkably similar to Fantasy Brettonia's Blessing of the Lady rule. However I would still argue a 5+ invul just seems out of place on a Sister of Battle. Not every Sister is a walking miracle at all times, she isn't surrounded with a halo is the Emerors light despite what the pictures want you to believe, aesthetically it's much more rewarding when you pass a 6+ invul rather than a 5+, it really feels like a miracle then. What if we consider copying the rule completely out of the Brettonian book, all faithful units gain a 6+ ward save that is increased to a 5+ against Str 5 or higher weaponry. Still works against those low ap high strength guns but no longer effects hot shot las guns and inferno bolts, which lets face it don't need any more nerfs.

Not sure I'm a fan of the Superior granting the melee act of faith, it seems like an ability that's not being paid for. A Marine pays 10 pts for a Veteran Sargent and doesn't gain any special bonuses, and while Eldar Exarchs do...they're Eldar and shouldn't be the base mark for balance. Perhaps make the Hand of the Emperor an optional upgrade? You could argue that the blessing may never be used, but I'd argue if you gain a situational ability you should still pay for it to an extent.

Sisters gaining free transports seems to me much more powerful than Marines gaining transports. Not only can you get them cheaper, a minimum 2 Sisterhood of Faith being only 760pts if my maths is right, but the Repressor far outweighs the Rhino and the Immolator is better then the Razorback by virtue of gaining a 5+ invulnerable save. In 1000pts you could field 2 naked Sisterhoods and a Celestial Host for 955pts. You get a whopping 13 Immolators/Repressors free! Sorry to be that guy, but the only way to test a fan dex is to try break it. I preferred the old rule, it was more Sisterly. Would you consider something similar to the current Daemonic corruption rule? If a Battle Sister squad is on an objective they may spend a Faith point to sanctify the ground. A sanctified objective counts as being controlled by the Sister even if there are no Sisters controlling it until an enemy unit comes within 3'' of the sanctified ground. Like objective secured, but more religious.

Keep going, I'm keeping my eye of this, it's a massive under taking and I wish you the best of luck.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
What if we consider copying the rule completely out of the Brettonian book, all faithful units gain a 6+ ward save that is increased to a 5+ against Str 5 or higher weaponry.

I like that actually, I forgot all about Bretonnians as a source for possible inspiration, they did have a few neat rules (until power creep and lack of updates killed them off, then the End Times happened…).

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Not sure I'm a fan of the Superior granting the melee act of faith, it seems like an ability that's not being paid for. A Marine pays 10 pts for a Veteran Sargent and doesn't gain any special bonuses, and while Eldar Exarchs do...they're Eldar and shouldn't be the base mark for balance. Perhaps make the Hand of the Emperor an optional upgrade? You could argue that the blessing may never be used, but I'd argue if you gain a situational ability you should still pay for it to an extent.

Battle Sisters, Dominion and Retributors get fairly limited benefit from it, but the Celestian Superior was supposed to cost a bit more for the Seraphim, looks like I missed that. Initiative 5 alone is very handy for them with Hit & Run, plus the Seraphim with praesidium protective + melee weapon can benefit a lot more from it, so yeah they should pay for that. I'm not sure about upping the cost for the others though as I'd say it balances fairly well with the core powers in their case, and while it's nice to have it's not a major benefit to them.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Sisters gaining free transports seems to me much more powerful than Marines gaining transports. Not only can you get them cheaper, a minimum 2 Sisterhood of Faith being only 760pts if my maths is right, but the Repressor far outweighs the Rhino and the Immolator is better then the Razorback by virtue of gaining a 5+ invulnerable save. In 1000pts you could field 2 naked Sisterhoods and a Celestial Host for 955pts. You get a whopping 13 Immolators/Repressors free! Sorry to be that guy, but the only way to test a fan dex is to try break it. I preferred the old rule, it was more Sisterly. Would you consider something similar to the current Daemonic corruption rule? If a Battle Sister squad is on an objective they may spend a Faith point to sanctify the ground. A sanctified objective counts as being controlled by the Sister even if there are no Sisters controlling it until an enemy unit comes within 3'' of the sanctified ground. Like objective secured, but more religious.

Some interesting options; what about only Rhinos being free? The perfect solution of course would have been for GW to not add such drastic free stuff to Detachments and Formations, but unfortunately it's too late for that

Objective grabbing with Faith is an interesting idea, lets units move past an objective without worrying about it too much, but then that only benefits objective-based missions; I was thinking of adding a Formation specifically for Retributors, so something like that could suit them as well.
Another alternative could be to give vehicles back their own 6++ save in this Detachment? I removed it to justify bumping costs back down versus the official codex, so it'd still be something free, but scaled with the actual number of vehicles you take. Plus they're not the most durable vehicles when knights and such are involved.

Regarding the old rule, it was just Preferred Enemy, but that kind of detracts from Light of the Emperor (not as much reason to use a Faith Point on it if you have most of the same benefits anyway).

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Keep going, I'm keeping my eye of this, it's a massive under taking and I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks, and thanks for the continued feedback!

I'm of the opinion fandexes should never compare themselves to things the majority of people deem OP. When playing with your fandex the opponent is putting trust in you and your rule set to be more fun to play against then the old rule set. For this reason alone I would suggest against the free transports (free Rhino's maybe, but it isn't even fluffy. Sisters aren't known for their armoured columns). Aim to have your dex at a similar level to Blood Angels, Orks and Dark Eldar rather than Marines or Eldar. Not at all suggesting that you've made the dex with those armies in mind, it was just a word of caution. I've seen many people justify proposed rules by citing the Wraithknight as it's points source.

Holy Icon Excorcists seems to have incredible synergy with Retributors. With the standard they can cast their own Act twice a game and the Light of the Emperor every other, 2 units of Heavy Bolter Retributors and an Excorcist battery would make its way into every list. Holy Icon just seems like such a powerful rule in general for only 10pts. A 3+ Sv re-rolling 1's is almost as good as a 2+ Sv. I also personally feel it makes the Acts of faith seem a little too mundane.

Aso your power weapons are undercosted. I understand they can become inert but you must also take into account you've bumped up all of their statlines. Your mace is +3 Str, your Sword +2. You have 1 draw back vs 2 buffs (cheaper and better), you should decide on one and drop the other.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I'm of the opinion fandexes should never compare themselves to things the majority of people deem OP. When playing with your fandex the opponent is putting trust in you and your rule set to be more fun to play against then the old rule set. For this reason alone I would suggest against the free transports (free Rhino's maybe, but it isn't even fluffy. Sisters aren't known for their armoured columns). Aim to have your dex at a similar level to Blood Angels, Orks and Dark Eldar rather than Marines or Eldar. Not at all suggesting that you've made the dex with those armies in mind, it was just a word of caution. I've seen many people justify proposed rules by citing the Wraithknight as it's points source.

Fair point, I'm leaning towards the alternative of restoring 6++ on vehicles anyway, possibly with the boost to 5++ if it has Faithful passengers though I'm not sure.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Holy Icon Excorcists seems to have incredible synergy with Retributors. With the standard they can cast their own Act twice a game and the Light of the Emperor every other, 2 units of Heavy Bolter Retributors and an Excorcist battery would make its way into every list. Holy Icon just seems like such a powerful rule in general for only 10pts. A 3+ Sv re-rolling 1's is almost as good as a 2+ Sv. I also personally feel it makes the Acts of faith seem a little too mundane.

True, but then their only long(-ish) ranged weapon option is the Heavy Bolter, which most people seem to think is underpowered, I may put the Holy Icon back to only working for non-Faithful units (so you have to give up Shield of Faith to use it) but I think it's okay personally; an exorcist with Holy Icon is 140 points after all, and a high priority target for the enemy to take down.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Aso your power weapons are undercosted. I understand they can become inert but you must also take into account you've bumped up all of their statlines. Your mace is +3 Str, your Sword +2. You have 1 draw back vs 2 buffs (cheaper and better), you should decide on one and drop the other.

Unless I've typo'd somewhere the sword should only be +1 (the great sword for the Palatine is +2 though, maybe you're thinking of that?); basically the aim is to make them equivalent to a Power Weapon wielded by a Space Marine, but they have a disadvantage, so it seems fair to me that they are cheaper compared to what a Space Marine pays, especially since many models in the list still have worse Initiative, all have lower Toughness etc. so they're lucky to get much use out of the weapon even if it isn't Inert.

This partly comes down to the issue that the Astra Militarum for example should pay less for Power Weapons but don't, which I feel is an oversight on GW's part, as even their elite troops and characters are lucky to actually get any use out of those weapons, and when they do they're at less Strength than a lot of the competition. If I had included plain Power Weapons I would have done-so at 10 points, and I think that quite a few fandexes do the same, but in the end I opted for a slightly better replacement with a potentially massive drawback so I think it balances out. It's also worth bearing in mind that the character models that can take them will lose you a Faith point if they refuse to fight, or get killed in, a challenge, so I think internally 10 points is about right, I mean they could be a point or two more perhaps but I don't think that'd make much of a difference really.

So I've got some updates to this codex in v1.1.1, mostly minor but there are a few key-points:

• Exorcists now have a different squadron bonus, giving them two different weapon profiles that can be used to make a single combined attack. This lets them function a bit more like Immolators for consistency, and while BS5 was a decent bonus this ought to give them more punch overall against certain targets, basically direct fire is improved to Heavy 3D3 S9 AP1 with Melta, while barrage becomes Ordnance 3 with S6 AP4 with Large Blast, Fleshbane, Rending and Strikedown for some fairly nasty combined fire. Against most target three lots of direct fire will be better, but against particularly heavy armour the combined fire will make a difference, especially if you're willing to risk moving closer. For indirect fire it's just generally nasty against all forms of non-vehicles, but still limited in how much damage it will do to multi-wound targets with only a random chance against enemy armour.
  It's worth mentioning at the same time that the default barrage fire for Exorcists is no longer an Ordnance attack, as I forget this grants extra armour penetration (or rather, less randomness).
  Sacristan Guard can now take Artificer Armour for 20 points. I considered making it standard, but think it's best as an option so they can still be taken for relatively cheap access to power weapons, but it's there if you want them more durable (e.g- when taking a banner).
  
• Dominion can take squad-wide Meltabombs for 10 points; basically for 5 points they can get the usual Meltabombs on just the superior, but if you want to be sure someone makes it another 5 gets you squad-wide redundancy. I wasn't going to do this before, but now that grenades in combat has finally been FAQed to one per unit I think it's fair.
  
• Retributors now have a rule that gives them a chance to gain a Faith Point each time they participate in the destruction of an enemy unit with shooting, with a +1 bonus if they used Divine Guidance or Holy Fusillade when they did so. The chance is a 5+ so they will gain one Faith Point for every three units destroyed, but since they don't need to be the one that dealt the finishing blow that phase it encourages them to combine fire, particularly with other Retributor Squads. This works well if you use Retributors using powers to weaken a target then finish it off with whatever you can.
  
• Sisterhood of Faith now requires a Celestian Squad, but only has a minimum requirement of 2 Battle Sister squads. It also has a 1-2 requirement for Fast/Heavy options, Fast option now includes units of Repressor and Heavy now includes units of Immolators. This gives access to these squadrons when running a pure Convent Warhost (otherwise you can't actually take them, only benefit from Combined rules in special formations).
  Celestial Host can now take a unit of Immolators or Repressors, but each vehicle must begin the game with a squad from the formation embarked upon it (i.e- this can't be used to take a Fast Immolator Squadron).
  
• Convent Warhost bonus is now 6++ for vehicles, 5++ with Faithful passengers, replacing free transports.
  
• Bunch of fixes (Canoness in a Priory Command can disembark if her Rhino is Immobilised, Warlord can only be Martyred by enemy attacks, Warlord giving Wounds for Acts of Faith doesn't need to be Faithful etc.)

Also worth mention is that Codex: Inquisition now allows access to Drop Pods for Sororitas squads when taken as the Chamber Militant of an Ordo Hereticus Strike Force.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/692166.page#8682181

Just started up some of my own thoughts on Formations and such. No unit alterations at all. Also some Dark Eldar ideas.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Great presentation here, very nicely designed. Liking the Objectives. One thing I think could be a problem is that there are so many ways to get Dominions and bonuses for them. I also kind of like Exorcists being their own Auxiliary choice because they are just too good for a Core in my opinion. Guessing you moved Penitent Engines into one of the other Codices you wrote? We had some similar ideas here and there, surprisingly. I do wish that the old Witchhunters Faith system was still with us, it was more straightforward in some ways. Maybe not the roll over/roll under model number bit though.

aushlo wrote:
One thing I think could be a problem is that there are so many ways to get Dominions and bonuses for them.

Possibly, but then there's probably a point of diminishing return to taking loads of them. That said I was thinking of changing the Purifier Squadron to be Retributors only, since Celestians and Dominion have their own formations now, but didn't when I originally created the formation entry in the first version of this codex. Some of the changes I've made recently to enhance Retributors already play very nicely with the Purifier Squadron as it makes their combined fire even more destructive, thus making it easier to get the roll for a Faith Point.

aushlo wrote:
I also kind of like Exorcists being their own Auxiliary choice because they are just too good for a Core in my opinion.

Interesting, I think I'd still want to allow at least one in a regular Sisterhood, but it may make sense to move the squadron into its own formation, I'll have a think about that one!

aushlo wrote:
Guessing you moved Penitent Engines into one of the other Codices you wrote?

That's right; each time I've taken a stab at a Sisters codex I've found myself trying to distinguish the ministorum and sororitas units from each other, and separating them out into their own codex seemed the logical conclusion as it made it a lot easier rather than trying to manage both in a single place. They are however fully intended to work together, and the Minostorum War of Faith detachment has bonuses when allying with a Convent Warhost (ministorum rules apply to sisters as if they were the same faction).

Also when working on these I've tried to think what a release might look like, and it seems unlikely that we could ever expect a full sister's release including ministorum units at the same time (too much stuff to update at once), and with the way Mechanicum forces were released it seems like two small factions could make a lot more sense, and be easier to ally in the parts you want. The first post in each thread details what I figure a model release would look like, it's part of why I resisted my natural urge to add tons of new units, which is usually how I end up ruining my lists

I wrote my Inquisition codex at the same time, and its hereticus strike force can take sororitas and ministorum units as a chamber militant, so its worth checking out too if you like the idea of witch hunter forces.

A lot of what I was looking at was, working within the mechanics and units we have, is there a way to make a sort of stop-gap Detachment with Formations within the ruleset that solves a few problems that the codex currently has, or buffs units that should be better. One example is the way certain Acts of Faith, as written, don't benefit the unit in the slightest- Ignores Cover is pretty crap on Dominions with flamers for example, and Retributors with Multi-Meltas don't really get anything special from theirs. The Canoness AoF is good primarily in either a blob (not really the best place for her) or with an overly expensive Command Squad which has no Assault Vehicle option. Seraphim are not good at Hit and Run. Things like that mostly. I was aiming primarily to encourage people to mess with units and options other than five Sisters+ some number of melta in an Immolator with three Exorcists and maybe Jacobus, the current monobuild. Similarly, in the Dark Eldar bit I'm trying to encourage away from Venomspam. If you have any input I'd be happy to bounce ideas.

So it's been quite some time since I last updated this, and with Fall of Cadia coming I wanted to release what I have before GW's new Saint Celestine change things.

Unfortunately I've been doing a terrible job of tracking what I've changed since the last release so I'm going mostly from memory (uh oh!):

• Knowing that Saint Celestine was coming as an Imperial ally I tweaked her a little, she's not changed much except to gain an Angelic Visage special rule that allows imperial forces nearby to roll failed Morale and Pinning checks, she is however still a mostly combat oriented character. I've also tweaked Miraculous Intervention a bit; she only needs to be Faithful when removed, but when restored will always have one Faith Point (even if she or her unit had more), if she was part of a unit it will lose D3 Faith points.
  
• I've added Canoness Veridyan (yes, I have the model). She's a shootier Canoness with BS7, Precision Shots and Precision Strikes, two uses of the Passion (from her Warlord Trait), allows one model in her unit to fire at full BS with Overwatch, and has a unique Act of Faith to give Precision Shots and Precision Strikes to Sororitas within 12". Basically she's all about the use of mass shooting Acts of Faith, as on her own she's not that dangerous.
  
• Sacristan Guard can now all take Blessed Greatswords; this is almost entirely for my own benefit as I'm using Sisters of Silence for these, but I actually kind of like it, since they're sacrificing an attack anyway. The Palatine is a little more expensive but comes with a Rosarius on top of her greatsword; not a huge buff though since she's still only one Wound.
  
• The Exorcist squadron's combined barrage attack is toned down a little; the reliable quantity of shots plus Fleshbane and Ordnance make it very nasty already, so it doesn't really need extra Strength (it's not intended for vehicle smashing, but it can still hurt lighter vehicles). The Exorcists now have a Chorus of Fire formation; this is really just to make it easier to build your force using the Convent Warhost detachment, as they're already powerful, so the only benefit is resistance to Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned damage results.

Plus lots of other tweaks I don't remember, but aside from the above it's going to be pretty similar to the last version I released. I've played a few more games with the list and it's fun to play; there's probably still some stuff I could pair down a bit, but on the whole I like how it's turned out

I'll see what happens with Fall of Cadia, as I may redesign Celestine's rules accordingly; not sure what to make of Fall of Cadia, as while I like the two new Seraphim models bundling them up in a £50 set that's clearly mostly a tech priest is just weird, and with Sisters being made-to-order the army seems effectively discontinued right now which is worrying, the last thing I want is for Sisters to just be one special character for other imperial forces.

So I've updated v1.2, didn't bother increasing the version number since it's so soon after the last update.

I managed to get a peek at Saint Celestine's new rules, and there's a pretty detailed summary here for me to refer to.

Major update focuses on integrating the new style of Celestine into my codex, so most points deal with that:

• As a result Celestine now has 5 Wounds, Eternal Warrior, and comes with 2 Geminae Superior (Seraphim Superior stats with two Wounds each, Blessed Weapon, Bolt Pistol and Inferno Bolts). Her Geminae Superior are a personal retinue (she cannot leave them, but they join and leave units with her), and they suffer Wounds before she does, effectively acting as sponges before you even touch her 5 Wounds. This is basically standard fare from the Fall of Cadia rules, and bring her to 200 points.
  
• With her enhanced durability her Miraculous Intervention now only occurs once per game, but restores her with two Faith Points.
  
• Healing Tears (which brings back a slain Geminae Superior) is now an Act of Faith, meaning she is limited by Faith Points to how often she can do this.
  
• Both she and her Geminae Superior have the Vow of Sanctity, meaning she starts the game with three Faith Points rather than two as before.
  
• She still has the same stronger Ardent Blade, Faith powers etc. from previous versions of my codex, so while my version has no Blessing of the Saint built-in she's more deadly than her Fall of Cadia incarnation.
  
• She can however now be included in any Forces of the Imperium list using a new formation. This keeps her and her Geminae in Reserve, and she can't be Warlord (so no Blade of the Emperor for Faith Point harvesting) however she instead has Blessing of the Saint which gives a similar ability to bestow blessings as her Fall of Cadia incarnation. The trade off is that she has less ability to harvest Faith Points, but can instead use one of the possible blessings to gain Faith Points instead (but it's turn dependent, so better to leave it till later, and means no other blessing that turn).
  
• Also fixed up an oversight on the Sacristan Guard which meant they couldn't actually take special weapons (since they don't have Boltguns), so I've added those directly to their options list. To make room I've moved Honour or Death into a glossary rule, as it's present in quite a few books so it really ought to be a universe rule anyway.
  
• Also simplified The Passion; no idea why I didn't do it this way before, but now it's just a penalty to save rolls for the target unit vs Sororitas, which makes it much simpler.

I think that's about it!