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 Pete Melvin wrote:
Look at the chevrons on the latest board pictures in the latest update and try to be half full.

No words.

MaxT wrote:

 Pete Melvin wrote:
Look at the chevrons on the latest board pictures in the latest update and try to be half full.

No words.

Six words: What the Hell is that crap?

Good lords, something like that could have been masked, with the mask made by a computer running Paint - there is no excuse.

The Auld Grump

The comments on their latest update is just sad...

at first I thought it was a problem with my eyes....

that is depressing.

RoninXiC wrote:
The comments on their latest update is just sad...

Their comments or their supporters comments?

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

MaxT wrote:

 Pete Melvin wrote:
Look at the chevrons on the latest board pictures in the latest update and try to be half full.

No words.

Spoiler:

Six words: What the Hell is that crap?

Good lords, something like that could have been masked, with the mask made by a computer running Paint - there is no excuse.

The Auld Grump

Is that hazard striping or tiger striping? I wouldn't criticize that if a fan did that on their own as I'd likely accomplish the same with a brush and a ruler at home but to get that level of unevenness from a professional factory made/applied process? I guess we know what the KS creator has been frantically doing for months since he started posting that he got the boards for QA testing. I'm glad I skipped out on this. The company was trying to work something out with palladium for robotech during that KS and I'm glad that they didn't end up collaborating. I'm having enough trouble with that one as is without throwing in this mess on top of it. KS is definitely out of the hobby honeymoon period for me.

MaxT wrote:

 Pete Melvin wrote:
Look at the chevrons on the latest board pictures in the latest update and try to be half full.

No words.

And to compare that to The quality advertised during the campaign -



G&G are now claiming that the bases are painted as they colour the plastic and that this is what they always promised despite claiming they had a special 2 layer spray paint technique for the base coat which they couldn't share as it was so secret.

Well, I missed the Kickstarter and the apparent gak storm that's gone down since then, I'd never even heard of the company until I was looking for an alternative to the GW board. As I play infinity I wanted a cityscape board that wasn't covered in loads of skulls and crap. I figured for £140 the Games and Gears ones looked quite good and as they were cheaper than the GW stuff I ordered one a bit ago. Then I stumbled on this thread and began to get worried!

Anyway, my board arrived today and I'm perfectly happy with it. The painting on the roads is basic but it does the job and I'll probably just have to put a brown/black wash on the rest and it'll be good to go. One niggle is the fact that the clips are sent in a different delivery, from China. Seems a bit daft to me that I'll have to wait for them to turn up from a different country!

But yeah, the paintjob on those Anime style boards is awful. The white lines on my cityscape one have obviously been applied with a stencil and spray so for the sake of the guys who have bought one of those then I hope they end up being stencilled too!

So I didn't back the Kickstarter, but I did preorder a board (DZC) off the website about a month after the KS ended. Was hoping to have it for my big game at Historicon 2014 (obviously didn't), and it doesn't look like I'll have it for Historicon 2015 either...

Anyway, my understanding is that they've ceased KS updates and are going with a direct email newsletter for updates? Is that true? If so, would anyone mind reposting them here so I can stay in the loop?

From what I understand, the motivation behind that is so that no one can comment on it.

Do they not understand that the first thing that will happen, is that it will be copy/pasted on their own ks comments, as well as here?

I managed to get a full refund before things started really sliding downhill. After seeing the 'paint', I really feel for the backers.

 inquisitorlewis wrote:
What a nightmare this KS has been.

Still, I wish I would have pledged. The cost of the boards at retail will stop me from ever buying one.

Be positive - you can always buy a really good board from Secret Weapon for a bit more!

To be entirely honest, I strongly dislike SWM board while this is really better in comparison.

Both were a disappointment for me though.

G&G, caught in a web of lies

A backer contacted Hawk:

From me to Hawk Wargames, makers of Drop Zone Commander:

Hi Hawk, 

I am one of the backers of the Games & Gears Battle Boards Kickstarter, in my case I pledged for a Drop Zone Commander board. These boards are not turning out the way we backers expected, and that is putting it mildly. The boards are mostly plain plastic instead of 100% base painted, and where there is paint applied it is so incredibly amateurishly done that it is embarrassing. 

Games & Gears is legitimizing their boards by saying that you, Hawk Wargames, have approved the final version of these boards. I find that somewhat surprising, on account that your own products are of an extremely high quality and anything but amateurish, but Games & Gears insists that you are involved, and perhaps, by association, even somewhat responsible for the inferior product they are delivering. 

Can you please confirm that you have indeed approved of these boards?

And got this reply:

Dear Robert

Firstly, please accept my apologies for the delay in getting back to you. It is sad to hear what you have said.

Firstly, there is a huge delay with the boards, as is obvious, but we have had nothing to do with the manufacture of these, we only licensed the use of our road layout so that these could be used on the boards.

Secondly, we have never seen a final production version of these boards - only the prototypes, which we were told were much inferior to what the final boards would be like - and therefore have not signed off any final version of the boards... (Whether it is in fact our right to do so or not is another question maybe). We certainly aim to always produce great quality products ourselves, and it would be really bad to hear that something has been produced with our name on it that does not meet these high standards that we set for our products.

This is something we will be looking into in depth to see what the status is of this situation, and why inferior product is being sent out. I must make the point though, that apart from the design of the boards, we have not been involved with any part of production or been involved in any of the decision making over this. Maybe we should have had a tighter control over this, however we felt, like many others who invested in this project through Kickstarter, that Games and Gears would be able to deliver a good quality product.

I will personally look into this as we are still waiting to receive any boards too - It would have been great to see final product before the backers to ensure that the quality was good enough.

To be clear, the only thing we have approved is the original design of the boards in terms of the road layouts.

Many thanks for your email, and apologies for the delay in replying. I hope we can bring about a good resolution to this for you, and for everyone else involved.

You fethed up G&G, why cant you just admit it? And youve been caught out in lie after lie, and this latest one is a doozy. Youve even taken the classic KS feth up route of only communicating "off project". The damage they have done to their reputation is probably irreparable.

Guys, it's totally the Doppler effect, GG didn't lie!
Look Orlanth, I helped. I am a helpful poster too!

Not looked at this thread for weeks, but then someone mentioned my name.....
So I turn up, ominous timing eh what.

I bought the Anime boards (I wished they were better less confusingly named). Disappointed with the danger stripes, they will need a redo.
If the DZC boards are the same quality as the Hawk 28mm boards I will be happy enough. The roads were done ok on those, it just needed a spray coat and inking on the pavement sections.
Its simple enough work to repair, its still worth the cost IMHO.
Wouldn't pay retail prices for that 'quality' though, but £60 was a good price.
Again what G&G asked for and what the factory in China bothered to give them are two different things. They don't care and can't be held accountable by minnow companies.

Doesn't G&G own their factory in China?

 Cyporiean wrote:
Doesn't G&G own their factory in China?

Hell no, they are third rate customers to a large plastics combine in Shanghai that does a zillion plastic manufacturing jobs of which this one barely registers.
G&G are so small they barely appear beyond their letterhead, the contract will be taken, the money taken then a half arsed job done. After that its G&G's problem.

This is very common when dealing with China as a small client business. You are their bitch. In the gaming industry this slapped about Catalyst and caused Rackham to go bankrupt, both considerably larger than G&G. Games Workshop does some outsourcing to China, but in this unlike other things they are professional. They have enough clout to be clear and careful what they want and when they want it, an as a result get what they pay for. Space Hulk was made in China, it arrived on time and on budget. Games Workshop only does one offs though, and the manufacturers know better than to soil future dealings.
Games Workshop also prints its books in China, but printing is different, its on standard format. If one press messed GW around they would take the image files of the White Dwarf to another press it requires no special tolling of any kind, so its safe. GW does not however outsource regular production of any other kind to China. Despite GW's frequent well deserved rep for incompetence, this is one area where they have had their eyes wide open.
Plastic Soldier Company also works with China successfully, some of the companies management are here on Dakka. As far as I know, PSC works via Hong Kong only and has permanent offices out there, I have a hunch they are there for the purpose of frequent oversight so make sure PSC gets what it pays for and with good stock numbers. Even so PSC is not in real control of its release schedule, but is in control of enough of the production that this isn't alarming to them. It looks to me that PSC work with the problem, rather than deny the problem exists, and as a result makes successful business.

Fair enough. I just remembered hearing back when this project started that they owned the factory.

Also this post mentions "We shipped these straight from our own factory."

Good catch, but lazy writing,

I seriously doubt G&G can afford a plastics factory. Its 'theirs' in the way 'your flight' you booked your holiday travel with belongs to you.

Nothing at all is G&G's fault, which includes not only what the renegade Chinese Factory does, but also everything that they say and tell us. How can possibly they be held accountable for their own words? That's ridonkulous!

They hired a certain Sam Sedghi and got him to do customer interface, I blame them for that.

Wait, what's this about Hawk Wargames DZC board? From my understanding the DZC board hasn't shipped.

In other news I've managed to buy two sets of the 28mm modern urban boards from other KS backers (I pledged for Anime and Anima, but not the city boards) and I'm super happy with 'em. One will be converted shortly to a post-apocalyptic Los Angeles for Terminator...

Go compaaaarrrreeee/go compaaaarrree/when your boards got flooooooded/just lie and fluuuuuub it/ Games and Gears/your boards dont match/so Go Compaaaaaarrrrrreeee





There is no way those boards are the same. I mean I suppose it could be the lighting, but the top boards looks to have a lot more colour to it.

Earlier pictures show this as well:



I think people may be dissapointed once more.

Alan McKenzie on February 7
Is this the same paintjob that will feature on the Anima boards that ks backers receive?

Creator Games & Gears on February 7
@Alan, yes

Of course, what they meant was

no

 Pete Melvin wrote:

I actually like this one much better, and I think it's the newer one?

Still, this is the campaign I've been most disappointed with out of 160 I've backed =/. Still hoping they'll delivery in the fall for DzC, though, and I think the boards are a great fit for it...

160 projects backed! Your disappointment must be over 9000!

I actually haven't been a part of any failed projects yet! Although some are struggling a bit, they're all chugging along... I've found that reaching out to a creator and offering to chip in towards shipping or the like can really help get things resolved if there are issues (especially since many campaigns end up underestimating costs a bit).

I really value creators who are honest and share their process / journey... I feel this campaign has been unfortunately opaque and also quite dishonest at times, so that's why it's been a tough one to remain supportive of (and I talked two friends into it, too).

Here's hoping the outcome is good, but the journey is a large part of Kickstarters and this one just wasn't a good process...

I wanted to update that I decided by the time I get these, I probably will not have a use for them, so I asked G&G for a refund of my 2 set early bird pledge, minus KS fees.

They promptly replied to my PM (as they always have) and issued the refund that same week to my Paypal.

All the best to those who are still waiting, and at least you know that if you would like a refund they readily provide them (minus the fees of course) unless it's gotten close to the point of shipping that board theme.

Awww, I totally would have taken your DZC boards at cost!

yeah,

 RiTides wrote:
... They promptly replied to my PM (as they always have) and issued the refund that same week to my Paypal..

Seems they don't know your standing in the community and missed opertunity to keep you sweet.
Hell if they sent you a any of the boards that were ready for free and requested you hang on I'm sure they could possibly have their product appearing in your future videos and photos.

Gotta show those dice on some sore of table right?

Panic...

Some good news for all you backers - if you put in a little time an effort the boards paint up pretty nicely.

From this:-



to this:-



I'm not done yet either, still more detailing and weathering to go.

Of course it would have been nice if the boards had been painted all over to start with - that would have saved me some time and effort.